Shrick Cams & Milltek - performance gains?
Discussion
Thinking of changing my 996C4 for a CSL (drove a few couple of years ago before finally buying a GT3). If I do, I'll change brakes first, but would also like more power...so am wondering if anyone on here has done cams + remap + exhaust/cat?
I've read about Shrick cams a couple of times, but wondering if anyone can give a view based on personal experience of how much difference it makes (assuming a good remap)? (interested in road and track)
Anybody dyno'd this sort of modification?
Cheers!
I've read about Shrick cams a couple of times, but wondering if anyone can give a view based on personal experience of how much difference it makes (assuming a good remap)? (interested in road and track)
Anybody dyno'd this sort of modification?
Cheers!
My CS has a http://www.thorneymotorsport.co.uk/ stage 4 now... which is a supersprint manifold, millteck cats and rear sections, Shrick cams, air filter, and a custom re-map... it made 375bhp @ 23C in the cell on the day.., maybe 380bhp ish on a cold is my best guess...and im kinda looking forward to a crisp 3-5C morning after the summer has passed..
You loose the Vanos kick at 4K... and it moves up to 5K, but it does pull harder pretty much all over, really low rpm torque i would say is marginally down, but its an atmo car and that is what happens when you cam an engine..
I have read a bit of mud-pie throwing ref dyno figures and disputes of recently, but the acid test is how well it goes, having prooved this now on the track, I can tell you my CS out dragged a stock 360bhp CSL 2 up, on the straights at Silverstone for 8 laps straight, I was carrying about 1600kg all up, 30kg over the CSL as i was solo, I pulled out 2 or 3 car lengths per straight, and found 1.2 secs per lap on the GP over my old engine.. so i think this puts to bed any dyno doubts..
= we like the noise, we smile more, we go faster on the track, we leave a few drivers scratchin their heads..! which all adds to the fun... 
You loose the Vanos kick at 4K... and it moves up to 5K, but it does pull harder pretty much all over, really low rpm torque i would say is marginally down, but its an atmo car and that is what happens when you cam an engine..
I have read a bit of mud-pie throwing ref dyno figures and disputes of recently, but the acid test is how well it goes, having prooved this now on the track, I can tell you my CS out dragged a stock 360bhp CSL 2 up, on the straights at Silverstone for 8 laps straight, I was carrying about 1600kg all up, 30kg over the CSL as i was solo, I pulled out 2 or 3 car lengths per straight, and found 1.2 secs per lap on the GP over my old engine.. so i think this puts to bed any dyno doubts..
= we like the noise, we smile more, we go faster on the track, we leave a few drivers scratchin their heads..! which all adds to the fun... Edited by RatBoy M3CS on Thursday 4th June 19:34
What was your car putting out immediately before you had the work done though?
The problem with dyno readings is that the figures don't mean too much by themselves. One dyno could read something completely different to another which is where I think the arguments start. If you had started off with a reading of say 370 bhp, I don't suppose you'd be too happy now? My standard CSL read over 360 bhp on the dyno, but again it doesn't mean anything as it could read 340 bhp on another dyno.
The problem with dyno readings is that the figures don't mean too much by themselves. One dyno could read something completely different to another which is where I think the arguments start. If you had started off with a reading of say 370 bhp, I don't suppose you'd be too happy now? My standard CSL read over 360 bhp on the dyno, but again it doesn't mean anything as it could read 340 bhp on another dyno.
Agreed..
My CS was 340bhp to start with so its the relative gain i'm interested in.. and for this reason i made sure i had a reference lap time to cross check against..
The performance on the track up against a stock CSL with 360bhp.. and running less weight, was favourable, to the tune of 2 or 3 car lenghts per straight, which confirms the dyno figures..
I managed to outdrag a CSL .. so logic would suggest that its more than 360 to pull the weight.. so 375/380 is pretty much where it is.. so i agree with the dyno report i got back..
My CS was 340bhp to start with so its the relative gain i'm interested in.. and for this reason i made sure i had a reference lap time to cross check against..
The performance on the track up against a stock CSL with 360bhp.. and running less weight, was favourable, to the tune of 2 or 3 car lenghts per straight, which confirms the dyno figures..
I managed to outdrag a CSL .. so logic would suggest that its more than 360 to pull the weight.. so 375/380 is pretty much where it is.. so i agree with the dyno report i got back..
Edited by RatBoy M3CS on Thursday 4th June 19:40
RatBoy M3CS said:
Agreed..
My CS was 340bhp to start with so its the relative gain i'm interested in.. and for this reason i made sure i had a reference lap time to cross check against..
The performance on the track up against a stock CSL with 360bhp.. and running less weight, was favourable, to the tune of 2 or 3 car lenghts per straight, which confirms the dyno figures..
I managed to outdrag a CSL .. so logic would suggest that its more than 360 to pull the weight.. so 375/380 is pretty much [/footnote]
although chances are the way you exit the corner is more likley to affect your straight line speed than the extra 10+bhp. you have no way of knowing the drivers skill or corner exit unless he came outnoticibly fasterMy CS was 340bhp to start with so its the relative gain i'm interested in.. and for this reason i made sure i had a reference lap time to cross check against..
The performance on the track up against a stock CSL with 360bhp.. and running less weight, was favourable, to the tune of 2 or 3 car lenghts per straight, which confirms the dyno figures..
I managed to outdrag a CSL .. so logic would suggest that its more than 360 to pull the weight.. so 375/380 is pretty much [/footnote]
then you pulled level and past
in your defence (well of cams anyway) i have tracked my CSL with a CSL with cams fitted and until i found out i couldnt understand how i could exit on to Revitt at Snett pulling up to its bumper every lap then having it pull away from me, bugger
For the record i followed Ratboy for 5 laps (not 8) and was within 1 to 4 four car lengths the whole time and abiding by Goldtrack rules! I would exit the final corners on to the Hanger Straight and the start finsh straight as quick if not quicker but he would pull 1 to 2 car lengths on me so i can vouch for his straight line poke assuming mine has the full 360 (sport button not used).
Did you type that correctly - you didn't have the Sport button enabled???! That would have slowed you down a bit in itself - although ultimately it doesn't give you more bhp. It just sounds fantastic when it's on!
It's good when you have a before and after dyno comparison with similar weather/temperature conditions so you can see what has worked with the modifications. Some seem to think one dyno run will prove what their car is producing and take that as gospel, and think their car is a special one if it's producing a high bhp figure. It doesn't mean diddly squat though.
It's good when you have a before and after dyno comparison with similar weather/temperature conditions so you can see what has worked with the modifications. Some seem to think one dyno run will prove what their car is producing and take that as gospel, and think their car is a special one if it's producing a high bhp figure. It doesn't mean diddly squat though.
Hi Scott. glad you found this ..! was it 5 laps or so.. i think i followed you for the other 3 then.. and yes we were about as even as it gets, on the day.. I will agree to that.. I look forward to the next time..!
I would pull out a couple of car lengths and you would claw it back and be welded to my bumper.. great fun.. just what its all about head2head..!
The point I'm making for the O/P is that the engine work did make a difference.. albeit only small margains, its expensive, but it works..
If your the lead car punching thro' the air, it takes a lot of power to pull away as the air resistance over 100mph is crippling to performance.., slipstreaming is a big part of racing tin tops..
Have fun at Mallory.. take it easy..
See you on the GP next time....
You seemed to get to grips with the car and the track pretty quickly, whats your track background.. karting / Caterhams..?
I would pull out a couple of car lengths and you would claw it back and be welded to my bumper.. great fun.. just what its all about head2head..!
The point I'm making for the O/P is that the engine work did make a difference.. albeit only small margains, its expensive, but it works..
If your the lead car punching thro' the air, it takes a lot of power to pull away as the air resistance over 100mph is crippling to performance.., slipstreaming is a big part of racing tin tops..
Have fun at Mallory.. take it easy..
See you on the GP next time....
You seemed to get to grips with the car and the track pretty quickly, whats your track background.. karting / Caterhams..?
shim said:
although chances are the way you exit the corner is more likley to affect your straight line speed than the extra 10+bhp. you have no way of knowing the drivers skill or corner exit unless he came outnoticibly faster
then you pulled level and past
Agreed Shim.. I'm usually flat off the Apex.. altho' i was struggling with some oversteer on the day so trailing a little off a few corners.. I found from my re-geo after that i had twice as much toeing on the n/s/r.. its even now.. so we will see if this was it next time out.. when you coming down south to play on the GP..?then you pulled level and past
Edited by RatBoy M3CS on Friday 5th June 17:42
shim said:
RatBoy M3CS said:
Agreed..
My CS was 340bhp to start with so its the relative gain i'm interested in.. and for this reason i made sure i had a reference lap time to cross check against..
The performance on the track up against a stock CSL with 360bhp.. and running less weight, was favourable, to the tune of 2 or 3 car lenghts per straight, which confirms the dyno figures..
I managed to outdrag a CSL .. so logic would suggest that its more than 360 to pull the weight.. so 375/380 is pretty much [/footnote]
although chances are the way you exit the corner is more likley to affect your straight line speed than the extra 10+bhp. you have no way of knowing the drivers skill or corner exit unless he came outnoticibly fasterMy CS was 340bhp to start with so its the relative gain i'm interested in.. and for this reason i made sure i had a reference lap time to cross check against..
The performance on the track up against a stock CSL with 360bhp.. and running less weight, was favourable, to the tune of 2 or 3 car lenghts per straight, which confirms the dyno figures..
I managed to outdrag a CSL .. so logic would suggest that its more than 360 to pull the weight.. so 375/380 is pretty much [/footnote]
then you pulled level and past
in your defence (well of cams anyway) i have tracked my CSL with a CSL with cams fitted and until i found out i couldnt understand how i could exit on to Revitt at Snett pulling up to its bumper every lap then having it pull away from me, bugger
RatBoy M3CS said:
when you coming down south to play on the GP..?
down south? do you mean Brands? as i am in Herts 
i am booked on Silverstone GP on the Circuit Days evening on Monday 29th June, Cadwell Park Monday 6th July with Easytrack, and Donington Evening with Circuits Days on Thursday 16th July.
if you can make Silly on the evening of the 29th June a few of us from openpitlane.com are going
Great stuff Shim... i will try and make the evening session on the 29th.. i was going to leave it till the 14th July with Goldtrack, and have a month off.. but i'm feeling the need already.. 
Down south ref: i got that wrong.. i thought you were from up north..
I would be very interested to see what times modified CSL's run, and where mine is now in comparison, I was running in the mid 2:20's last time out with a confidence draining handling problem on the rear, the car did a 2:19.5 best last time out, two up on the same poor setup.. so there is an 18 in the car for sure on my refreshed geo, maybe a very late 17 is my best guess on Cups.. but its rare to get more than a few clean laps in with no traffic or keeping out the way of the GT3's..!
I'm not sure if they will run much lower times on Cups..?, without taking a lot of weight off the car.. what are your thoughts..?
You did mention a 2:14 in a previous post. surely this was on Slicks not Cups..?
or stripped out with 100kg worth about 1 second a lap too..
You can get them down to 1250kg as we have talked about.. but its not road useable...
I can't see a CSL getting anywhere near a well driven GT3 or RS..
The 996RS cars run 2:10's, 997RS cars 2:08's,
Altho' i have beaten quite a few badly driven ones..!!
They pull 10-15mph faster down the hanger straight.. mine pulls 140mph indicated..
130mph corrected.. (vbox)
Down south ref: i got that wrong.. i thought you were from up north..
I would be very interested to see what times modified CSL's run, and where mine is now in comparison, I was running in the mid 2:20's last time out with a confidence draining handling problem on the rear, the car did a 2:19.5 best last time out, two up on the same poor setup.. so there is an 18 in the car for sure on my refreshed geo, maybe a very late 17 is my best guess on Cups.. but its rare to get more than a few clean laps in with no traffic or keeping out the way of the GT3's..!
I'm not sure if they will run much lower times on Cups..?, without taking a lot of weight off the car.. what are your thoughts..?
You did mention a 2:14 in a previous post. surely this was on Slicks not Cups..?
or stripped out with 100kg worth about 1 second a lap too..
You can get them down to 1250kg as we have talked about.. but its not road useable...
I can't see a CSL getting anywhere near a well driven GT3 or RS..
The 996RS cars run 2:10's, 997RS cars 2:08's,
Altho' i have beaten quite a few badly driven ones..!!
They pull 10-15mph faster down the hanger straight.. mine pulls 140mph indicated..
130mph corrected.. (vbox)
Edited by RatBoy M3CS on Tuesday 9th June 22:04
my first go at Silly was about 2m 19s (looking at my camcorder tape 
) but i was nowhere near the pace as I was scrubbing off far too much pace in the fast twisty bits (not very good at the corner names i am afraid)
i have seen friends in CSLs do 2m 14s on Cups but i agree at Silly a CSL will not get near a GT3 or RS (like for like drivers of course) but the suspension upgrade helps close the gap a little i think
Get the 29th booked quick as nearly full up and then whilst your there get the Donny date booked as well and you'll have real fun there!
) but i was nowhere near the pace as I was scrubbing off far too much pace in the fast twisty bits (not very good at the corner names i am afraid)i have seen friends in CSLs do 2m 14s on Cups but i agree at Silly a CSL will not get near a GT3 or RS (like for like drivers of course) but the suspension upgrade helps close the gap a little i think
Edited by shim on Tuesday 9th June 18:28
Get the 29th booked quick as nearly full up and then whilst your there get the Donny date booked as well and you'll have real fun there!
Edited by shim on Tuesday 9th June 18:29
Hi Shimmy... I'm looking for 18's maybe 17's next time out.. its a job to tell how much time i was loosing as i wasn't flat off all the apex's like i wanted to be, as i had too much oversteer from a rear toeing problem..
I've also got -3.0neg on the front now to get some more front grip out of my 235's.. which were over the shoulders way too far last time..@ 32psi hot..
These guys running 14's.. in a stock car..?
Or with the brakes and suspension.. maybe power upgrades too..?
Thats some impressive times...
I know a guy in a 996RS... Petrol Ted on here.. he runs 2:12's.. so they are not far off really..
I've also got -3.0neg on the front now to get some more front grip out of my 235's.. which were over the shoulders way too far last time..@ 32psi hot..
These guys running 14's.. in a stock car..?
Or with the brakes and suspension.. maybe power upgrades too..?
Thats some impressive times...
I know a guy in a 996RS... Petrol Ted on here.. he runs 2:12's.. so they are not far off really..
Edited by RatBoy M3CS on Tuesday 9th June 22:02
If I can get a slot.. and its not raining.. i will have some of that action.!
I will bring a vbox.. to stick in the car for reference..
I need to check my front wheel bearings too, last time i put my road tread back on after the track i could hardly turn the front wheels round by hand, the AP pads are good, but a big pad can cause a lot of drag if it doesnt fully release..
Now i'm out of excuses..!!
I will bring a vbox.. to stick in the car for reference..
I need to check my front wheel bearings too, last time i put my road tread back on after the track i could hardly turn the front wheels round by hand, the AP pads are good, but a big pad can cause a lot of drag if it doesnt fully release..
Now i'm out of excuses..!!
RatBoy M3CS said:
Hi Shimmy... I'm looking for 18's maybe 17's next time out.. its a job to tell how much time i was loosing as i wasn't flat off all the apex's like i wanted to be, as i had too much oversteer from a rear toeing problem..
I've also got -3.0neg on the front now to get some more front grip out of my 235's.. which were over the shoulders way too far last time..@ 32psi hot..
These guys running 14's.. in a stock car..?
Or with the brakes and suspension.. maybe power upgrades too..?
Thats some impressive times...
I know a guy in a 996RS... Petrol Ted on here.. he runs 2:12's.. so they are not far off really..
Ratboy - what top mounts are you using to get -3 neg?I've also got -3.0neg on the front now to get some more front grip out of my 235's.. which were over the shoulders way too far last time..@ 32psi hot..
These guys running 14's.. in a stock car..?
Or with the brakes and suspension.. maybe power upgrades too..?
Thats some impressive times...
I know a guy in a 996RS... Petrol Ted on here.. he runs 2:12's.. so they are not far off really..
Edited by RatBoy M3CS on Tuesday 9th June 22:02
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