368 bhp standard
Discussion
I’d be interested in some feedback after a very impressive dyno session at Thorney today, well at least think it’s impressive.
The actual results print out need to be scanned and posted up which I will do shortly but from absolutely standard it made 368 bhp and after a remap went to 377 bhp. The exhaust is bog standard and the car has never been tampered with before to the very best of my knowledge, the figures were at the engine by the way
Anyway really good service as I had the geo done as well and we were away in a little over two hours so a big thumbs up
The bad news is I got looking at a new tubular manifold, 100 cats and all the rest of the gubbins with talk of a genuine 400 bhp
The actual results print out need to be scanned and posted up which I will do shortly but from absolutely standard it made 368 bhp and after a remap went to 377 bhp. The exhaust is bog standard and the car has never been tampered with before to the very best of my knowledge, the figures were at the engine by the way
Anyway really good service as I had the geo done as well and we were away in a little over two hours so a big thumbs up
The bad news is I got looking at a new tubular manifold, 100 cats and all the rest of the gubbins with talk of a genuine 400 bhp
Well lots of CSL's have been on the dyno at Bexleys and typically they make less than their quoted power figures. My CSL doesn't make that close to that power on their dyno (and it reads fairly as I've got same power figures from a seperate dyno). I know I'm not alone in saying I won't believe the 400bhp claims until I see it on an independent dyno - simply because this is a mighty claim and I've seen S54's with a LOT of money spent on them to make this kind of power.
I'm happy to offer up my CSL in standard tune + exhaust for a back to back power run at Bexleys anytime.
I'm happy to offer up my CSL in standard tune + exhaust for a back to back power run at Bexleys anytime.
Indeed - there are engines with different compression ratios, rods, pistons as well as the cams, cats etc.
How much power does the BMW motorsport engine make? They claim approx 400bhp for the Z4M race car
http://bmw-motorsport.com/ms/en/index.html
How much is that engine?
How much power does the BMW motorsport engine make? They claim approx 400bhp for the Z4M race car
http://bmw-motorsport.com/ms/en/index.html
How much is that engine?
m12_nathan said:
Indeed - there are engines with different compression ratios, rods, pistons as well as the cams, cats etc.
How much power does the BMW motorsport engine make? They claim approx 400bhp for the Z4M race car
http://bmw-motorsport.com/ms/en/index.html
How much is that engine?
TO get that sort of power out of the S54 reliably BMW uses different cams, different intake (similar to yours), Completely different electronics given the sequential box, different throttle bodies, different exhaust and cats. The internals are standard otherwise, just blueprinted in the real meaning of the world. The engine makes around 440Bhp for the short VLN races and around 400 for the 24hrs of the Nurburgring. The BMW is nowhere near the Porsches in outright speed, but the car only nees refueling once every 12 laps in contrast to the 10 achieved by the 997s and 8 by the Zakspeed Viper... Sorry about the off...How much power does the BMW motorsport engine make? They claim approx 400bhp for the Z4M race car
http://bmw-motorsport.com/ms/en/index.html
How much is that engine?
Back on topic, there is no way a CSL would get even close to 400Bhp without serious money thrown at it...
Most other same make dyno's give 350bhp. High readings are becoming a common thing on the thorney dyno.
I met up with a guy who had some work done to his M3 by thorney and it made alot less power on other same make dyno's.
The figures are not important, the gain from modifications is the important thing with all else kept constant.
I met up with a guy who had some work done to his M3 by thorney and it made alot less power on other same make dyno's.
The figures are not important, the gain from modifications is the important thing with all else kept constant.
So in summary the dyno is moody and even if it isn’t you couldn’t get a CSL to the 400 bhp mark.
Ever the one for the proverbial Daz Doorstep Challenge the car will be making a visit to another rolling road I’ve used in the past where even if the car does show around the 377 bhp mark it will be the dyno that is wrong presumably? But irrespective of that you still couldn’t get it close to the 400 bhp mark.
Alternatively I could put the Alpina on the offending dyno and see if gets near the 535 bhp it made elsewhere?
There is one other alternative and fun alternative to all this, as and when there is another Vmax it can strut its funky stuff and see what it runs to.
Ever the one for the proverbial Daz Doorstep Challenge the car will be making a visit to another rolling road I’ve used in the past where even if the car does show around the 377 bhp mark it will be the dyno that is wrong presumably? But irrespective of that you still couldn’t get it close to the 400 bhp mark.
Alternatively I could put the Alpina on the offending dyno and see if gets near the 535 bhp it made elsewhere?
There is one other alternative and fun alternative to all this, as and when there is another Vmax it can strut its funky stuff and see what it runs to.
S1MMA said:
Could just be an over-optimistic flywheel estimation (i.e. too low an estimate for tranny losses), what power did it make at the wheels?
Good question... but realistically I would be surprised if it made >300 at the wheels. Asusming it made 300bhp ATW then to get 368bhp Flywheel power means you were assuming 22.5% rundown losses?Dynos should be used to give you a base line reading and then any increase or decrease in output, but you can't accurately compare readings taken from other rolling roads or cars.
Question
Can't the operator set up the dyno to read slightly over anyway, I heard Ninemeister did this and got found out?
Question
Can't the operator set up the dyno to read slightly over anyway, I heard Ninemeister did this and got found out?
Edited by Porscheplayer on Tuesday 18th November 17:20
We've dyno'd hundreds of M3's and to date over 100 CSl's in all stages of tune. Most of them make around 355 bhp and we've had three that were standard that made over 365bhp, thats three out of over 100. All three have been confirmed (we check the chassis numbers) have been BMW press cars which are known to have their componants undergo a little more care in their selection (its not cheating as such just that as the componants are quality checked any really good ones (crank etc) are kept to one side. These three got 363bhp, 368bhp and 373bhp respectively, all dyno'd on relatively cold days but intake temps realtively similar.
As for a customer who says he feels as if the numbers we have shown on our dyno are 'wrong' then I know of one person, who went to another dyno, who's owner subsequently rang me to ask how we dyno'd an M3 and funnily enough came out with lower figures, we get a phonecall a week from dyno operatros asking how to get past the 6500rpm limit, how to put the car in dyno mode etc etc, frankly the level of BS spread about them defies belief.
As for 400bhp, we we've been running one at that for nearly a year on and off and yes it does need significant investment, wider/tapered bore manifold, full race exhaust with 100 cell race cat, Schrick cams and custom mapping but it works, works very well and anyoen is welcome to come and try it. The manifold (which we designed with Supersprint, and yes i did drive the car to Italy to do it) had 4/5 designs before we settled on lengthening the primaries to increase torque under 6000rpm and the Schrick cams we use add power only from 6000rpm above to the car pulls from 4000rpm all the way to the raised rev limit of 8750rpm.
There is a great deal more than running a dyno shop that just measures cars, its about engineering and testing that engineering through competition and prooving it works - we do that.
Oh at least I post under my own name and not some annoymous title, there are two posts from people on this thread who actually own two tuning firms - you'd be hard pressed to realise that wouldn't you? Beware forum gossip, someone posting comment may not be whom they appear to be, a 'customer' saying one thing usually turns out to be the tuner themselves either trying to big themselves up or s
g off a competitor, by all means disagree with me but I stand by what we do and am ready to sit and prove it, just drop me a line, drop in, you won't find me hiding behind some forum name. Eh Nigel?
As for a customer who says he feels as if the numbers we have shown on our dyno are 'wrong' then I know of one person, who went to another dyno, who's owner subsequently rang me to ask how we dyno'd an M3 and funnily enough came out with lower figures, we get a phonecall a week from dyno operatros asking how to get past the 6500rpm limit, how to put the car in dyno mode etc etc, frankly the level of BS spread about them defies belief.
As for 400bhp, we we've been running one at that for nearly a year on and off and yes it does need significant investment, wider/tapered bore manifold, full race exhaust with 100 cell race cat, Schrick cams and custom mapping but it works, works very well and anyoen is welcome to come and try it. The manifold (which we designed with Supersprint, and yes i did drive the car to Italy to do it) had 4/5 designs before we settled on lengthening the primaries to increase torque under 6000rpm and the Schrick cams we use add power only from 6000rpm above to the car pulls from 4000rpm all the way to the raised rev limit of 8750rpm.
There is a great deal more than running a dyno shop that just measures cars, its about engineering and testing that engineering through competition and prooving it works - we do that.
Oh at least I post under my own name and not some annoymous title, there are two posts from people on this thread who actually own two tuning firms - you'd be hard pressed to realise that wouldn't you? Beware forum gossip, someone posting comment may not be whom they appear to be, a 'customer' saying one thing usually turns out to be the tuner themselves either trying to big themselves up or s
g off a competitor, by all means disagree with me but I stand by what we do and am ready to sit and prove it, just drop me a line, drop in, you won't find me hiding behind some forum name. Eh Nigel?Gassing Station | CSL | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff