CS vs CSL

[Doug86]

Is the CS basically a full fat CSL?

What I'm trying to ask is does the CS come with the carbon air intake etc like the CSL?

[m12_nathan]

no.

[europameister]

CS is "semi-skimmed"

[Rags]

People who say the CS is a thinking mans CSL are talking bks - the CS is merely an m3 with CSl wheels and a CSL steering rack.

People who say that the CS is a the best of both worlds, as in 'a mix of the best parts of the CSL and the M3', again, are way off the mark.

The CSL feels like a totally different car whereas the CS just feels like a modified m3 and looks like one. The CSK looks and feels unique.

Drive them back to back and you will see why.

[Shamma44]

i drove them back to back and they are not even in the same ball park, furthermore my parents have a stock M3 which doesn't feel that different to the CS. Same seats, same engine, same weight......CSL is the kiddy, don't be fooled by expensive imitations!

[RatBoy M3CS]

Dont let all this put you off a CS.. they are a great car..!

They come stock with the same brakes as a CSL, same wheels, same steering rack, you get a soft traction control off button which gives you a safety net too if you need to learn how to drive one..! specially in the wet..
The brakes and suspension on the CSL are pretty average as they are on the CS, so this needs looking at for much track work..
The CSL comes with paddle shift, bucket seats, no sat nav, i think air con was an option too..

On the road i find the CS a great car, on the track mine is great fun too..
I'm happy to take on any road CSL round Silverstone GP..

The CSL is 100kg lighter, with +15 BHP and a nice intake noise for sure.... but it really depends what you have to live with every day.. a bit quieter and easier to get in and out of with Sat Nav.. is fine by me..!

BTW... mine will be for sale soon..!

Edited by RatBoy M3CS on Monday 4th August 15:07

Edited by RatBoy M3CS on Monday 4th August 15:26

[Shamma44]

All down to taste I guess...

I'm sure you'll be happy whichever you choose, however, the noise of the CSL with the sport button on is really rather wonderful!

Good luck!

[Shamma44]

PS. happy to take you on at Bedford this weekend if you're about!!

[RatBoy M3CS]

That sounds like a challenge to me... now you know track days are a non competitive event dont you..

Who is running the day @ Bedford .. I may come up and say hello, although i dont know the circuit at all..

Whats your plate on the CSL..? or any unique markings so i know your car..?

I'm @ Silverstone on the GP @ Goldtrack evening event 27th this month..

[houlbt]

For the record, I am not sure the wheels on the CS are the same as on the CSL, they might look the same... but think they are in fact different ... nice though they are, your CS wouldn't see which way my CSL went around Silverstone

Edited by houlbt on Monday 4th August 16:49

[RatBoy M3CS]

Interesting point.. the rear wheels are identical.. same part number.. the fronts CS ones are 8J not 8.5J... I bought some CSL ones and weighed them back to back.. the CSL ones are actually slightly heavier.. as they are a bit wider.. I run CSL fronts too..

I would be very interested to know what time your track car will go round the GP in..? I have no doubt at all that its quicker.. but by how much..?

I know you run a very aggressive camber set-up.. rears rims all round and Intrax i believe.. is it much lighter that a std one..? engine mods..?

I have been waiting for a chance to do a direct comparison on the track with a CSL.. but havnt seen a car out the same time as me unfortunately.. but that can change..

[Shamma44]

The wheels are different and CSL should be lighter so not sure what was going on there The suspension is a lot firm and the carbon fibre roof will give it a lower center of gravity again helping on the track. I would say the CS would actually lap around the same time as a standard M3 as I can't imagine the steering rack would make that much difference. I therefore refer you to fifth gears comparison with Tiff where the CSL was 2 seconds quicker around a relatively short track.

I've not driven the Bedford GT track either. Happy to take you round and then jump in with you for some comparisons.....I'll be there from 1 till 5 on Saturday. Reg OEY.

Wouldn't dream of racing.......

Edited by Shamma44 on Monday 4th August 17:41

[PPPPPP]

This argument has been raging for decades - 2002/ 2002tii, e9 CSi/CSL, E30 M3/E3- M3 Evo Sport.

In ALL cases, the performance focused model is worth a lot more today.

Having said that, it makes sense for a prospective purchaser of a standard M3 to consider the CS.

[RatBoy M3CS]

Yup... I thought the CSL rims were magnesium and a lot lighter too..

Imagine my disappiontment 1500 quid later when they turned up and they were the same..! the fronts are a half inch wider and the net result was no weight saving at all.. but the extra front offset does make a lot of difference to the steering..!

Ref lap times: stock M3 vs CS.. the CS would be margainally better, 1 second and a bit as the brakes are better, but only for 1 lap if your lucky.. they would both be buggered after that..!

A CSL... should be worth 5 seconds a lap.. on the GP circuit...
I have found a 90kg passenger costs you about 2 secs, and cup tyres gain 3.0 seconds.. the extra 15bhp of power would be half a second too.. so my best guestimate is 5 secs to the CSL / over a 3+ mile lap like the GP..

Mine was garbage 1st time out in stock spec.. but 12 months later, 1 large bag of sheckles down, plenty of research here and lots of trial and error has transformed the car..!

Its all about learning..!
Thats why forums are a fountain of knowledge... you just have to filter out the b**lst..;)..!

Edited by RatBoy M3CS on Tuesday 5th August 09:32

[davesfx]

I think the biggest difference with the csl v cs wheels are when you phone BMW with a rear curbed wheel and ask them how much!!, i got back in region of £550 for m3 CSL rear wheel and £240 for a CSL style wheel as they called it built for the CS they do have different part numbers too. btw. going to nuringberg in october any one want to come?

[m12_nathan]

davesfx said:

I think the biggest difference with the csl v cs wheels are when you phone BMW with a rear curbed wheel and ask them how much!!, i got back in region of £550 for m3 CSL rear wheel and £240 for a CSL style wheel as they called it built for the CS they do have different part numbers too. btw. going to nuringberg in october any one want to come?

Same part no on the rear.

[MarkM3Evoplus]

Wasn't the main reason the CSL was quicker than a standard M3 due to the special tyres it came with - Michelin Pilot Cup?

How much quicker would a CSL be if a standard M3 had the same tyres say round Brands Indy?

[Rags]

It would still be quicker, it has more power and is lighter.

Im sure an amazing driver in a std m3 would beat a shyte driver in a csl, but back to back with the same standard driver, the CSL would destroy the m3 even on standard tyres.

[RatBoy M3CS]

Thats fighting talk that is...

Come up to Silverstone 27th Aug.. evening... Goldtrack event..!

We will find out...



I'm hoping to find at least 1 CSL to try and keep up with..! its the last evening one on the GP for the summer..

Edited by RatBoy M3CS on Wednesday 13th August 15:52

[Shamma44]

I still refer you all to 5th Gear, Tiff testing both CSL and stock M3 around Anglesea or whatever the track is they use: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X8sQL18PpZw

I didn't see you at Bedford at the weekend Ratboy so it could be said you didn't take up the challenge. It sounds like you are a bit of a silverstonemeister so I don't think it would be a fair comparison. How many times you tracked there?

Fancy picking a neutral track?

Edited by Shamma44 on Wednesday 13th August 17:28