Buying a CSL would like to know running costs of owning ??
Discussion
Hi M3 CSL owners & ex owners,
I'm selling my TVR T350 and seriously thinking about replacing it with a 2004/04 M3 CSL, after looking after my TVR I'm not looking at buying a car that costs a small fortune to maintain yet want to keep that special feeling factor when you go take her for a spin, can anyone help me to know what it is like to maintain / look after ??
All comments and thought would be most appreciated.
I'm selling my TVR T350 and seriously thinking about replacing it with a 2004/04 M3 CSL, after looking after my TVR I'm not looking at buying a car that costs a small fortune to maintain yet want to keep that special feeling factor when you go take her for a spin, can anyone help me to know what it is like to maintain / look after ??
All comments and thought would be most appreciated.
If its under warrenty it shouldn't cost too much to run. I would advise to buy with a warrenty unless you are going to upgrade parts which will break/ware.
Things which the warrenty will/have cover/covered include, new diff, new gearbox, new bushes , new rear control arms, top mounts, airbox stepometer, front wishbones, oil level sensor, power steering, Vanos
, just to name a few. BMW parts are exspensive as is there labour.
Also not every BMW dealer knows what to do with a CSL. ie never go to Sytners of Leicester, sir your car has a BBK we have to charge to change the bushes !! !
I found Murketts of Huntigdon, knew everything about the CSL, they even set the car up properly and never moaned about any modifications. i think the guy i talked to at the desk and on the phone was Andy, very knowledgable and helpful guy.
common problems are wearing clutches, bushes, rear trailing arms and oil level sensor and power steering leaks/failire. The steering wheel can get furry !!! and it costs £600 to replace !! the warrenty covers that though !
It might be costly if you run cups, which can cost upwards of £750 a set. They don't last long maybe 4000/5000 miles tops on road. Im on my 5th set of cups I run 3 sets of wheels , 1 set CSL alloys - Michelin ps2, 2nd set CSL alloys Cups, 3rd set BBS LM goodyears/Toyos.
Also you might want another set of CSL alloys £1050 from BMW for a set. You can go aftermarket , but i wouldn't touch any rims other than BBS, Neez, OZ or Volks. A set of BBS CH's can be had for £800.
Keeping bodywork intact ! flippers OEM cost £127 per corner, front bumper £2000+ !!!! respray for bumper and bonnet £250
Windscreen - £300 from Autoglass (same pilkington M3 glass but without BMW logo )
If you use the car alot on track or fast road use, you could get a BBK for the front which starts out from £1000 - £1900 for the fronts.
i got a Full set for £3100+ (including AP rear disks, same size as stock M3 rears), pads cost about £200 all round for pagids if i recall correctly.
Then there is suspension, anything from £1000sachs/Tein upto £5700 Ohlins
Then theres Exhausts from £200 - £2500, clutch sets from £600 , cams £1500, labour £2000 etc
The oil is quite exspensive but the CSL does not eat alot of oil. The fuel bill will also be high but thats expected. S
servicing costs are the same as any M3 if you go to a specialist like Thorney motorsport or Bexley motorworks. I follow the service pattern but at 4000-5000 mile intervals and if the oil ever gets above 120 the oil is changed.
Its an expensive motor to run out of warrenty or modify, but worth it.
I found the CSL cheaper to run than my E36 Evo !!
Good luck with whatever you decide. T350's are lovely btw !
Things which the warrenty will/have cover/covered include, new diff, new gearbox, new bushes , new rear control arms, top mounts, airbox stepometer, front wishbones, oil level sensor, power steering, Vanos
, just to name a few. BMW parts are exspensive as is there labour.Also not every BMW dealer knows what to do with a CSL. ie never go to Sytners of Leicester, sir your car has a BBK we have to charge to change the bushes !! !
I found Murketts of Huntigdon, knew everything about the CSL, they even set the car up properly and never moaned about any modifications. i think the guy i talked to at the desk and on the phone was Andy, very knowledgable and helpful guy.
common problems are wearing clutches, bushes, rear trailing arms and oil level sensor and power steering leaks/failire. The steering wheel can get furry !!! and it costs £600 to replace !! the warrenty covers that though !
It might be costly if you run cups, which can cost upwards of £750 a set. They don't last long maybe 4000/5000 miles tops on road. Im on my 5th set of cups
I run 3 sets of wheels , 1 set CSL alloys - Michelin ps2, 2nd set CSL alloys Cups, 3rd set BBS LM goodyears/Toyos.Also you might want another set of CSL alloys £1050 from BMW for a set. You can go aftermarket , but i wouldn't touch any rims other than BBS, Neez, OZ or Volks. A set of BBS CH's can be had for £800.
Keeping bodywork intact ! flippers OEM cost £127 per corner, front bumper £2000+ !!!! respray for bumper and bonnet £250
Windscreen - £300 from Autoglass (same pilkington M3 glass but without BMW logo )
If you use the car alot on track or fast road use, you could get a BBK for the front which starts out from £1000 - £1900 for the fronts.
i got a Full set for £3100+ (including AP rear disks, same size as stock M3 rears), pads cost about £200 all round for pagids if i recall correctly.
Then there is suspension, anything from £1000sachs/Tein upto £5700 Ohlins
Then theres Exhausts from £200 - £2500, clutch sets from £600 , cams £1500, labour £2000 etc
The oil is quite exspensive but the CSL does not eat alot of oil. The fuel bill will also be high but thats expected. S
servicing costs are the same as any M3 if you go to a specialist like Thorney motorsport or Bexley motorworks. I follow the service pattern but at 4000-5000 mile intervals and if the oil ever gets above 120 the oil is changed.
Its an expensive motor to run out of warrenty or modify, but worth it.
I found the CSL cheaper to run than my E36 Evo !!
Good luck with whatever you decide. T350's are lovely btw !
Edited by C5L on Wednesday 9th January 12:34
Edited by C5L on Wednesday 9th January 15:22
A lot of good info from C5L above 
One small thing i'd pick up on - the "wearing out clutches" bit. That is misleading. The CSL does have an issue which manifests itself *like* a slipping (or worn) clutch, but in reality few clutches are ever faulty/worn out. It is most likely a software issue which cannot be fixed. Many owners have a new clutch and/or flywheel in an attempt to solve this problem, and it does indeed seem 'fixed' once that work is done and the SMG has been completely reset properly, but it'll come back again fairly quickly when this 'software issue' creeps back. Infact the issue seems to come and go during ownership, quite probably depending on driving style (as a good trackday seems to help it loads!).
A point I thought was worth picking up on
And for the sake of the OP, the issue is what appears to be clutch slip when near full or full throttle changes are made around the 4,000 -> 6,000RPM range (ie, full throttle short shifting). You lose full forward drive for a moment until full drive is restored. Irritating but easy to drive around. Either feather the upshifts in that range, or change above it at or near the red-line - like you mostly would on a trackday.
One small thing i'd pick up on - the "wearing out clutches" bit. That is misleading. The CSL does have an issue which manifests itself *like* a slipping (or worn) clutch, but in reality few clutches are ever faulty/worn out. It is most likely a software issue which cannot be fixed. Many owners have a new clutch and/or flywheel in an attempt to solve this problem, and it does indeed seem 'fixed' once that work is done and the SMG has been completely reset properly, but it'll come back again fairly quickly when this 'software issue' creeps back. Infact the issue seems to come and go during ownership, quite probably depending on driving style (as a good trackday seems to help it loads!).
A point I thought was worth picking up on
And for the sake of the OP, the issue is what appears to be clutch slip when near full or full throttle changes are made around the 4,000 -> 6,000RPM range (ie, full throttle short shifting). You lose full forward drive for a moment until full drive is restored. Irritating but easy to drive around. Either feather the upshifts in that range, or change above it at or near the red-line - like you mostly would on a trackday.
Agree with everything above. Can achieve 25mpg on long motorway journeys, but much less on B roads. I used Thorney for servicing without sacficing the BMW warranty - he really understands the cars but charges less than a dealer. I had a problem with the relay to the SMG gearbox and also battery problems. There was also some corrosion issues with the mirrors. These are common problems but essentially the CSL is probably cheaper to run than any other car of similar performance. Interior trim is not very hard wearing, but it is not much fun in the back so avoid taking passengers. Go for it.
Thanks guys for the in-depth comments, I found them very interesting to read, I think I will keep my CSL standard, getting married in a year flow
so need to watch the cash flow 
She is worth it, I'm talking about the CSL by the way !!!!
What are the service intervals ?
I live very near to Stansted and my closest BMW dealer is Elms in Bishop Stortford, any recommend them or anyone near by for CSL maintaining without losing warranty ?
so need to watch the cash flow She is worth it, I'm talking about the CSL by the way !!!!
What are the service intervals ?
I live very near to Stansted and my closest BMW dealer is Elms in Bishop Stortford, any recommend them or anyone near by for CSL maintaining without losing warranty ?
Pretty sure that the extended warrenty requires a full BMW service history, unlike the factory warrenty which isn't allowed to demand that due to block exemption rules.
Sitting at 80 on the motorway mine will return about 30 mpg, service intervals are based on fuel usage and time, 2275 litres of fuel or 2 years, whichever comes first. The car shows 15k miles to go until the next one when just serviced (2275 litres of fuel at 30 mpg). My services have fallen about 10-11k miles apart.
If your TVR is anything like my Noble you will find the CSL very cheap in comparison.
Sitting at 80 on the motorway mine will return about 30 mpg, service intervals are based on fuel usage and time, 2275 litres of fuel or 2 years, whichever comes first. The car shows 15k miles to go until the next one when just serviced (2275 litres of fuel at 30 mpg). My services have fallen about 10-11k miles apart.
If your TVR is anything like my Noble you will find the CSL very cheap in comparison.
V6MATT
I have & still use both Elms & Thorney. Once you get the car we can meet up to discuss various issues of csl ownership. For instance I would recommend checking/changing the air filter every 6 months, or sooner if like me you have driven on too many gritted roads. If you see the crap that passes through the filter you will know why.
I have & still use both Elms & Thorney. Once you get the car we can meet up to discuss various issues of csl ownership. For instance I would recommend checking/changing the air filter every 6 months, or sooner if like me you have driven on too many gritted roads. If you see the crap that passes through the filter you will know why.
Trawler,
Thamk you for your post, I will use Elms as it is the closest BMW dealer to me, it would be a great idea meeting up to discuss CSL issues, nice to know there is someone close by that owns one.
How has your CSL treated you ? have you owned one for long ?
I will let you know when I pick up my CSL.
Thamk you for your post, I will use Elms as it is the closest BMW dealer to me, it would be a great idea meeting up to discuss CSL issues, nice to know there is someone close by that owns one.
How has your CSL treated you ? have you owned one for long ?
I will let you know when I pick up my CSL.
V6MATT, the CSL really is very cheap to run. I wrote the buyers guide over on Mtorque/BM3W and also the Buying Guide in EVO a few years ago now. I've had my CSL for going 4.5 years now and its probably the most reliable car I've owned, although I've only covered 15,000 miles in that time.
Make sure you read the buyers guides, and check that it has had all of the warranty fixes undertaken (many of which are listed in the guide).
Make sure you read the buyers guides, and check that it has had all of the warranty fixes undertaken (many of which are listed in the guide).
V6
I've had my car nearly 18 months & without wanting to tempt fate it has been fantastic & cheap to run. I've done a few track days, driven in France, etc.
The only thing I can add to Doc D is view a few cars & if possible drive each of them if the external/internal condition has not already put you off. For instance I bought a 3 owner tracked example when I could have gone for a one owner similar millage car. The car's history, how it's been looked after & the seller say a lot.
I've had my car nearly 18 months & without wanting to tempt fate it has been fantastic & cheap to run. I've done a few track days, driven in France, etc.
The only thing I can add to Doc D is view a few cars & if possible drive each of them if the external/internal condition has not already put you off. For instance I bought a 3 owner tracked example when I could have gone for a one owner similar millage car. The car's history, how it's been looked after & the seller say a lot.
I generally average 23 to 24mpg on the road, but as an experiment I did a 100 mile round trip today and returned an average of 35.1 mpg!!! I shall never repeat this figure again, but it shows what an amazingly well engineered lump the CSL has. As a comparison I could only better this figure on the same journey in my wifes car (2.0 Alfa 147) by 0.8 mpg. I doubt there is another 350bhp+ car out there that could offer such a well rounded, practical, yet thrilling package as the CSL
Tyres and brakes have been by far the biggest expense thus far for me, with over £1200 being spent on brake consumables alone (pads/discs/fluid- parts costs only) since April 07. It has to be said this is mainly due to the increased wear rate brought about by track days though (I'm on my 4th set of front pagids), so it's hardly a surprising statistic, and it's worth every last penny!
(edited: correction to wifes car - 147 not 145)
Tyres and brakes have been by far the biggest expense thus far for me, with over £1200 being spent on brake consumables alone (pads/discs/fluid- parts costs only) since April 07. It has to be said this is mainly due to the increased wear rate brought about by track days though (I'm on my 4th set of front pagids), so it's hardly a surprising statistic, and it's worth every last penny!
(edited: correction to wifes car - 147 not 145)
Edited by D.no on Saturday 12th January 17:24
Great feedback from everyone, thanks for the time in replying to my topic.
I have today sold my TVR T350 and been approved on the BMW finance so I'm now getting excited, I just need to choose the right car.
I'm driving over to a M3 CSL specialist tomorrow called "Nick Johnston motor company" anyone know of them ??
I have today sold my TVR T350 and been approved on the BMW finance so I'm now getting excited, I just need to choose the right car.
I'm driving over to a M3 CSL specialist tomorrow called "Nick Johnston motor company" anyone know of them ??
http://www.mtorque.co.uk/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php...
Thread on Nick Johnson Sports Cars in relation to a CSL.
Thread on Nick Johnson Sports Cars in relation to a CSL.
shim
it would be interesting to discuss the merits/experiences of different service departments. Test drove a csl at Murketts, also have read a lot of good reviews, but for some reason have not considered them to work on my car. When V6 has his car maybe we could all meet up at a convenient location.
it would be interesting to discuss the merits/experiences of different service departments. Test drove a csl at Murketts, also have read a lot of good reviews, but for some reason have not considered them to work on my car. When V6 has his car maybe we could all meet up at a convenient location.
I travel to Murketts from Leicester . also use Thorney motorsport in MK . Would consider Bexley and Simpsons aswell.
I just leave the CSL @ Murketts (get a courtesy car of them) or Thorney for a week and it comes back mechanically good as new.
Never use Sytners of Leicester or Notts . I've had grief with them trying to sort simple problems on my E36 M3,ex E39 M5 and the CSL.
I just leave the CSL @ Murketts (get a courtesy car of them) or Thorney for a week and it comes back mechanically good as new.
Never use Sytners of Leicester or Notts . I've had grief with them trying to sort simple problems on my E36 M3,ex E39 M5 and the CSL.
V6 MATT said:
Great feedback from everyone, thanks for the time in replying to my topic.
I have today sold my TVR T350 and been approved on the BMW finance so I'm now getting excited, I just need to choose the right car.
I'm driving over to a M3 CSL specialist tomorrow called "Nick Johnston motor company" anyone know of them ??
Matt, it's just a thought but have you tried Gareth @ bespoke for your finance? He sorted a finance solution out for me that was far more favourable than the BMW finance and it was taylored to suit my specific needs. He also sources cars for people and is no stranger to the CSL. Top bloke.I have today sold my TVR T350 and been approved on the BMW finance so I'm now getting excited, I just need to choose the right car.
I'm driving over to a M3 CSL specialist tomorrow called "Nick Johnston motor company" anyone know of them ??
http://www.bespoke-auto.co.uk/
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