M3/ M3 CSL or Ford Mustang? !
Discussion
Hi there
I recently sold my Saleen Mustang, which had extensive modifications to power, handling and brakes.
It was an awsome car, better than an E46 M3 manual I once drove and when I say better I mean in handling too, but not vastly superior just slightly. However my Mustang was a Saleen, then it had quite a lot of Steeda suspension components along with uprated brakes and was pushing out 532BHP........So it was rather special.
However guess what I know own now?
An M3 CSL!
The CSL has better handling but is also far easier to drive as a whole and is a much quicker B-Road car. The CSL is not as quick but its not hugely slower which when you consider the HP difference (360 vs 530) is not bad at all.
A standard Mustang handles OK, but is no M3. A Roush or Saleen Mustang is about on par with an M3 handling wise, but certainly not better. Tune the suspension further and it is possible to make the Mustang better, but you won't get CSL handling from a Mustang for the road simple as that. On the race track yes it is possible to make a Mustang handle amongst the best as the live axle for the race track does not cause any issues and hence why cars such as caterhams and westfields use live axles etc.
I don't regret owning my Saleen Mustang one bit, that car taught me a lot about cars because I did the engine, suspension and brakes all myself. For £6000 I took the power over 500BHP, sorted the whole suspension and got the handling fantastic and also uprated the brakes. So if you find yourself a bargain Mustang GT for say circa 15-18k for an additional 3k you can make it handle and stop amazingly. For another 3k you can give it a huge power hike too.
Alternatively get a Roush or Saleen thats supercharged then see what you think and remember with Steeda parts you can improve it further, but Saleens and Roush cost a lot more money.
The Mustang to avoid is the Shelby GT500, its crap, the weight is far too much and it chassis is not balanced at all and they are stupidly overpriced.
However I repeat your not gonna get a Mustang handling like an M3 CSL on the road, on the track yes maybe but on the road it would be noisy and way way to harsh wheras I find the CSL can also be a quiet comfy cruiser that turns into an absolute joy to drive on the back roads.
Having been a Mustang owner and now an M3 CSL owner, this is my oppinion. Its not hearsay or based on whats being read in magazine or seen in Top Gear its from true experience of owning both vehicles.
Simple fact is go take a Roush or Saleen for a test drive, then see what you think, its that easy!
Then drive an M3, see how you think it compares and then go have a go in a CSL. The CSL is the most capable car, but obviously a 3 series BMW cannot compete with the uniqueness of a Mustang and the sound of that V8 plus the huge tuning potential of the Mustang for relative little money. I've had my fun with a Mustang and am now enjoying my CSL which is a true dream to drive. This weekend alone I emptied a full fuel tank from the CSL, think I only got 200 miles out of a full tank, hehe guess I was having fun.
I recently sold my Saleen Mustang, which had extensive modifications to power, handling and brakes.
It was an awsome car, better than an E46 M3 manual I once drove and when I say better I mean in handling too, but not vastly superior just slightly. However my Mustang was a Saleen, then it had quite a lot of Steeda suspension components along with uprated brakes and was pushing out 532BHP........So it was rather special.
However guess what I know own now?
An M3 CSL!
The CSL has better handling but is also far easier to drive as a whole and is a much quicker B-Road car. The CSL is not as quick but its not hugely slower which when you consider the HP difference (360 vs 530) is not bad at all.
A standard Mustang handles OK, but is no M3. A Roush or Saleen Mustang is about on par with an M3 handling wise, but certainly not better. Tune the suspension further and it is possible to make the Mustang better, but you won't get CSL handling from a Mustang for the road simple as that. On the race track yes it is possible to make a Mustang handle amongst the best as the live axle for the race track does not cause any issues and hence why cars such as caterhams and westfields use live axles etc.
I don't regret owning my Saleen Mustang one bit, that car taught me a lot about cars because I did the engine, suspension and brakes all myself. For £6000 I took the power over 500BHP, sorted the whole suspension and got the handling fantastic and also uprated the brakes. So if you find yourself a bargain Mustang GT for say circa 15-18k for an additional 3k you can make it handle and stop amazingly. For another 3k you can give it a huge power hike too.
Alternatively get a Roush or Saleen thats supercharged then see what you think and remember with Steeda parts you can improve it further, but Saleens and Roush cost a lot more money.
The Mustang to avoid is the Shelby GT500, its crap, the weight is far too much and it chassis is not balanced at all and they are stupidly overpriced.
However I repeat your not gonna get a Mustang handling like an M3 CSL on the road, on the track yes maybe but on the road it would be noisy and way way to harsh wheras I find the CSL can also be a quiet comfy cruiser that turns into an absolute joy to drive on the back roads.
Having been a Mustang owner and now an M3 CSL owner, this is my oppinion. Its not hearsay or based on whats being read in magazine or seen in Top Gear its from true experience of owning both vehicles.
Simple fact is go take a Roush or Saleen for a test drive, then see what you think, its that easy!
Then drive an M3, see how you think it compares and then go have a go in a CSL. The CSL is the most capable car, but obviously a 3 series BMW cannot compete with the uniqueness of a Mustang and the sound of that V8 plus the huge tuning potential of the Mustang for relative little money. I've had my fun with a Mustang and am now enjoying my CSL which is a true dream to drive. This weekend alone I emptied a full fuel tank from the CSL, think I only got 200 miles out of a full tank, hehe guess I was having fun.
Edited by [OcUK]Gibbo on Monday 30th July 23:44
Edited by [OcUK]Gibbo on Monday 30th July 23:46
Olf said:
Beemer-5 said:
I thought i would balance things up, because on the Mustang forum somebody has asked the question and Beemers are getting a bit of stick!
So, would you sell your M3 or M3 CSL, for a Mustang of any type?
Which is best and why?
Stop it.So, would you sell your M3 or M3 CSL, for a Mustang of any type?
Which is best and why?
QUOTE
NAH!
You're here now, so post what you think about the cars mentioned!
It's why we visit the place, after all!
To post views!
Edited by Beemer-5 on Tuesday 31st July 07:49
Notwithstanding what Gibbo says about a highly modded Mustang. I've driven loads of M3's and a mustang and I can't even begin to think about common ground unless it that they both have four wheels and two doors.
The driving dynamics, ride, handling, performance, engines, gearboxes, build quality, driving environment, everything is completely removed. To be fair I was driving the lower powered model but still I think the experience is broadly similar.
Like I say, the Saleen may well be a completely different kettle of fish but comparing any standard production mustang to an M3 is like comparing chalk to cheese.
The driving dynamics, ride, handling, performance, engines, gearboxes, build quality, driving environment, everything is completely removed. To be fair I was driving the lower powered model but still I think the experience is broadly similar.
Like I say, the Saleen may well be a completely different kettle of fish but comparing any standard production mustang to an M3 is like comparing chalk to cheese.
What i said over there still stands.
The two are quite different, i have owned several big American coupes and some BMWs, including an M3 CSL, i appreciate the advantages of something like a Shelby over a BMW coupe, but also am very aware that the Beemer holds a lot of the aces.
VFM is one area a used Muzzy can score. A supercharged version makes for a good value muscle car.
But if i had to choose, i'd go M3 CSL again over any Yank coupe, bar the 2007 Corvette.
The two are quite different, i have owned several big American coupes and some BMWs, including an M3 CSL, i appreciate the advantages of something like a Shelby over a BMW coupe, but also am very aware that the Beemer holds a lot of the aces.
VFM is one area a used Muzzy can score. A supercharged version makes for a good value muscle car.
But if i had to choose, i'd go M3 CSL again over any Yank coupe, bar the 2007 Corvette.
[OcUK]Gibbo said:
On the race track yes it is possible to make a Mustang handle amongst the best as the live axle for the race track does not cause any issues and hence why cars such as caterhams and westfields use live axles etc.
Only on the slow ones, the better ones don't have a live axle.m12_nathan said:
[OcUK]Gibbo said:
On the race track yes it is possible to make a Mustang handle amongst the best as the live axle for the race track does not cause any issues and hence why cars such as caterhams and westfields use live axles etc.
Only on the slow ones, the better ones don't have a live axle.All 2005 onward Mustangs have a live axle, none of them feature IRS and upto now nobody has given a 2005 onwards Mustang IRS either.
The older 2004 and earlier Cobras had IRS, but those did not handle as good as the newer live axle 2005 onward Mustangs.
I think the original question discussed a 335D not an M3. Anyhoo....
As others have said, it's pointless comparing the 2 cars, they are too different. I love the M3 and nearly bought one, but the Mustang looks and sounds like nothing else on the road. If I was looking for a 15K+ miles a year car I would have probably gone for the M3 although some people do use their Mustang everyday. For a weekend bit of fun and tail out action the Mussie is hard to beat.
Agility & refinement vs. power and a sense of occasion. I wouldn't swap my Mustang for any BMW but that's just me. The British motoring press don't do the Mustang any favours (with the exception of EVO) but that's just fine by me; it keeps my car rare. Just don't compare the V6 you'll drive on holiday in Florida with the V8 GT, let alone the Saleen or Roush.
Not CSL vs Mustang related but the Mustang is still leading the inaugural FIA GT4 championship. Not bad for old pig iron with a live rear axle.
http://www.gt4cup.com/
As others have said, it's pointless comparing the 2 cars, they are too different. I love the M3 and nearly bought one, but the Mustang looks and sounds like nothing else on the road. If I was looking for a 15K+ miles a year car I would have probably gone for the M3 although some people do use their Mustang everyday. For a weekend bit of fun and tail out action the Mussie is hard to beat.
Agility & refinement vs. power and a sense of occasion. I wouldn't swap my Mustang for any BMW but that's just me. The British motoring press don't do the Mustang any favours (with the exception of EVO) but that's just fine by me; it keeps my car rare. Just don't compare the V6 you'll drive on holiday in Florida with the V8 GT, let alone the Saleen or Roush.
Not CSL vs Mustang related but the Mustang is still leading the inaugural FIA GT4 championship. Not bad for old pig iron with a live rear axle.
http://www.gt4cup.com/
Edited by benny.c on Tuesday 31st July 14:01
Edited by benny.c on Tuesday 31st July 14:02
Off topic a little but is there any financial advantage to be gained by importing your own Mustang as a one off??? Anyone here ever done that? I guess you could order one already kitted up.
I've actually just sold a CSL and have no idea what to replace it with. It doesn't have to fit any particular criteria as it's a weekend car and used purely for fun. Idea's on a replacement welcome....would be nice if it held it's value as well as the CSL
I've actually just sold a CSL and have no idea what to replace it with. It doesn't have to fit any particular criteria as it's a weekend car and used purely for fun. Idea's on a replacement welcome....would be nice if it held it's value as well as the CSL
m33ufo said:
Off topic a little but is there any financial advantage to be gained by importing your own Mustang as a one off??? Anyone here ever done that? I guess you could order one already kitted up.
You can import a GT yourself for about £20K which would save £4K ish over UK dealer prices. Many people on the MOCGB forums have done it. Getting kitted up in the UK isn't that hard; Roush have a UK base and most US companies ship to the UK anyway. With the current exchange rate it's rude not to supercharge 
Edited by benny.c on Tuesday 31st July 16:52
I did exactly this, i sold my M3 CSL, for a Shelby GT-500 Evolution.
(Post as DMC elsewhere!)
Here's something I posted when being asked if the CSL was hard to live with versus the mustang..
"Not at all .. the CSL was a much more practical commuting car..the shelby is a bloody handful..
But this car has 50 x the character of the CSL. And if all i wanted was a perfect car that executes every corner without any fuss then i'd have bought a porsche or kept the csl (like i had before - 996 turbo). But after a while the teutonic nature of porsche and bmw leave you cold. They're just another german engineering solution. They don't have any character or charisma, and thats something that keeps you coming back to the car time after time after time.
( I exclude the extreme versions of bmw and porsche from this, M3 CSL-GTR, GT2, RSR, etc)
Let me put it like this, the last time i got out of bed at 11pm at night and went for a drive (just for the sheer joy of driving) was when i was 25, and had just bought my first porsche. Yet it in 5 days of ownership of the Mustang i've done it 3 times. "
(Post as DMC elsewhere!)
Here's something I posted when being asked if the CSL was hard to live with versus the mustang..
"Not at all .. the CSL was a much more practical commuting car..the shelby is a bloody handful..
But this car has 50 x the character of the CSL. And if all i wanted was a perfect car that executes every corner without any fuss then i'd have bought a porsche or kept the csl (like i had before - 996 turbo). But after a while the teutonic nature of porsche and bmw leave you cold. They're just another german engineering solution. They don't have any character or charisma, and thats something that keeps you coming back to the car time after time after time.
( I exclude the extreme versions of bmw and porsche from this, M3 CSL-GTR, GT2, RSR, etc)
Let me put it like this, the last time i got out of bed at 11pm at night and went for a drive (just for the sheer joy of driving) was when i was 25, and had just bought my first porsche. Yet it in 5 days of ownership of the Mustang i've done it 3 times. "
killerm5 said:
But this car has 50 x the character of the CSL. And if all i wanted was a perfect car that executes every corner without any fuss then i'd have bought a porsche or kept the csl (like i had before - 996 turbo). But after a while the teutonic nature of porsche and bmw leave you cold. They're just another german engineering solution. They don't have any character or charisma, and thats something that keeps you coming back to the car time after time after time.
That's the first time I've ever heard a CSL being referred to as soulless! Its all personal taste of course, but after 2.5 years mine still makes me grin like a loon. I also don't think its an easy car to drive well. Being both quick and SMOOTH in a CSL is a challenge, but IMHO that makes it all the more pleasurable when you get it right.PS, I've also owned and raced a ***slow*** Caterham (if there is such a thing) with a live axle and I cant ever say it felt like a limiting factor.
Gassing Station | CSL | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff