Discussion
I'm sure quite a lot of you CSL drivers out there have had this suspension setup on your cars and i would love to hear some feedback. I'm just interested to know how much this improves the car's handling (as i'm sure it is quite considerably) and also to ask whether the fact that it is fully adjustable means you can set it up to be extra stiff for the track and then make it more comfortable than the original suspension for the road? I'm planning a trip down to the south of france 4 up and i'm wondering whether this suspension could make the car more comfortable for journey down there (especially for my friends in the back) and then when i'm heading out for a trackday at a later date i'd be able to stiffen it all up.
Also does anyone know what insurance companies tend to think of this modification?
Also does anyone know what insurance companies tend to think of this modification?
I've got the KW Variant 3 setup on my CSL, and yes it has totally transformed the car's handling. Also had 10mm spacers fitted to the front wheels which has helped reduce turn-in understeer a lot. The car feels much more planted on the road and through corners I am able to stay on the power with much more confidence. I had mine done by Thorney Motorsport and it included a full geo setup which is essential. As for making the car more comfortable - don't know about that! The setup is firmer and over choppy surfaces is less comfortable than the stock suspension although it is possible to soften it up by adjusting the compression and rebound damping. I did a trip to the Ring recently along with a trackday at Spa and the suspension worked really well with no bottoming out or clearance issues on the tyres. Overall I would recommend this as a worthy modification. My insurance company were fine with this modification (the only mods they don't seem to like are ones that increase power). This image shows how flat the car corners now 
Edited by M3desmo on Wednesday 6th June 13:59
Having used KW3's previously on my M3 GT and knowing others that have had them fitted to the CSL, I'd advise to look at other solutions and ask yourself if its something you really need.
I know of two people who have had issues with clearance (tyres rubbed against the front springs) and only after having them fitted by the installer (a year earlier), has the installer admitted that they should have been fitted with spacers. Both individuals spent a significant amount of money after said installer effectively made the car worse than standard (set up a two further times at a cost of £1500) and caused tyre wear at a obscene rate. The ride height was wrong not only at both sides, but also front and back. Also some of the claimed geometry adjustments had not been made which was later discovered when another party tried to set the car up .... evident by some compenents which had not been adjusted since manufacture!
From what I have seen, (and some experts far more qualified to speak than me) you are better keeping the car as standard or getting it set up properly with the Intrax which has been proven time and time again to be a great solution by CSL owners.
I know of two people who have had issues with clearance (tyres rubbed against the front springs) and only after having them fitted by the installer (a year earlier), has the installer admitted that they should have been fitted with spacers. Both individuals spent a significant amount of money after said installer effectively made the car worse than standard (set up a two further times at a cost of £1500) and caused tyre wear at a obscene rate. The ride height was wrong not only at both sides, but also front and back. Also some of the claimed geometry adjustments had not been made which was later discovered when another party tried to set the car up .... evident by some compenents which had not been adjusted since manufacture!
From what I have seen, (and some experts far more qualified to speak than me) you are better keeping the car as standard or getting it set up properly with the Intrax which has been proven time and time again to be a great solution by CSL owners.
Well my observations are based on my experience of the car on both standard and KW suspension. The KW setup is a marked improvement for me and I have not experienced any of the negative aspects mentioned. With respect any suspension (even Intrax or Ohlins) will be cr*p if not set up properly. Obviously ride height, damper settings and geometry are crucial to be set right or else it won't matter if you spent £10k on the suspension, the car will handle like a bag of sh*te.
My conclusion is therefore that the KW setup is a worthy mod so long as it is set up on the car properly, as will be the case with any other aftermarket suspension. It's not really fair to blame the suspension for poor handling / tyre fouling if it's been set up by a pillock!
My conclusion is therefore that the KW setup is a worthy mod so long as it is set up on the car properly, as will be the case with any other aftermarket suspension. It's not really fair to blame the suspension for poor handling / tyre fouling if it's been set up by a pillock!
oola said:
Having used KW3's previously on my M3 GT and knowing others that have had them fitted to the CSL, I'd advise to look at other solutions and ask yourself if its something you really need.
I know of two people who have had issues with clearance (tyres rubbed against the front springs) and only after having them fitted by the installer (a year earlier), has the installer admitted that they should have been fitted with spacers. Both individuals spent a significant amount of money after said installer effectively made the car worse than standard (set up a two further times at a cost of £1500) and caused tyre wear at a obscene rate. The ride height was wrong not only at both sides, but also front and back. Also some of the claimed geometry adjustments had not been made which was later discovered when another party tried to set the car up .... evident by some compenents which had not been adjusted since manufacture!
From what I have seen, (and some experts far more qualified to speak than me) you are better keeping the car as standard or getting it set up properly with the Intrax which has been proven time and time again to be a great solution by CSL owners.
Which installer are we talking about here? PM me if you don't want to name them publicly.I know of two people who have had issues with clearance (tyres rubbed against the front springs) and only after having them fitted by the installer (a year earlier), has the installer admitted that they should have been fitted with spacers. Both individuals spent a significant amount of money after said installer effectively made the car worse than standard (set up a two further times at a cost of £1500) and caused tyre wear at a obscene rate. The ride height was wrong not only at both sides, but also front and back. Also some of the claimed geometry adjustments had not been made which was later discovered when another party tried to set the car up .... evident by some compenents which had not been adjusted since manufacture!
From what I have seen, (and some experts far more qualified to speak than me) you are better keeping the car as standard or getting it set up properly with the Intrax which has been proven time and time again to be a great solution by CSL owners.
It took a full, long day to get my car setup (including spacers on the front) so I'd be both surprised and concerned if you are talking about the same installer.
Think i'm gonna keep mine standard! Sounds like its something i don't really need as i've already got the aps and done a geo setup which means the car is nigh on perfect. Is there any way of improving the oil in the standard dampers so that you don't get any adverse effects when they get hot? Or is this really not a good idea?
Billy83 said:
Think i'm gonna keep mine standard! Sounds like its something i don't really need as i've already got the aps and done a geo setup which means the car is nigh on perfect. Is there any way of improving the oil in the standard dampers so that you don't get any adverse effects when they get hot? Or is this really not a good idea?
The standard dampers are not serviceable items (sealed units) so when they're bo
ocksed they go in the bin. Don't let the scaremongers out there put you off. Best bet for you is to have a drive in a KW/Intrax/Ohlins equipped car and experience the difference for yourself. I was cynical over the claimed improvement in handling until I had it done to my car and experienced it first hand. Totally convinced of the improvement over standard suspension now! Don't get me wrong, the standard car is a sweet handling machine, but aftermarket suspension properly set up just moves the game to a higher level.Edited by M3desmo on Friday 8th June 13:36
I'm not convinced it was your dampers overheating but after market suspension will make the car more capable on track without doubt. I'd say look at KW unless you get the rear turrents strengthened or some warrenty on that part of the body in which case look at Intrax too? Maybe I'm being too caucious but they weren't designed for coilovers on the rear (intrax have them, KW dont').
I went from standard to Bilsteins on my Porsche prior to buying the CSL and they did make a significant difference as the suspension was tired. However, it destroyed the car for me as even on firm settings the travel was longer then the original suspension causing it to bottom out and scrape its nose and ass on the ground. The problem was that these Bilstein did not have a bump stop on the front as apparently they didn't need it! Be very careful with suspension upgrades as worrying about your nose hitting the ground on a fast run is a little more expensive with a CSL.
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