M3 CSL opinions please.....
Discussion
I have recently started to wander about the sanity of having my 964 RS parked up 90% of the time.
I drive a lot for work and do far too many hours (as most people in the UK do) and most of the time cannot bring myself or be bothered to make the effort to get the RS out which seems like a waste.
I have considered changing it for a CSL as it offers more power, ultimatley I would guess a faster car and maybe easier to live with...certainly moves away from manual gearbox (I drive an auto during the week to make life a easier in traffic)
Any owners on here that can offer an insight into CSL ownership would be apprecaited greatly!!
Also as I have only just started to consider the change, how does a CSL measure up to the zero depriciation of a 964 RS. They seem to have levelled off at around £30k-£35k after the fall from nearly £60k from new!?
Thanks.
I drive a lot for work and do far too many hours (as most people in the UK do) and most of the time cannot bring myself or be bothered to make the effort to get the RS out which seems like a waste.
I have considered changing it for a CSL as it offers more power, ultimatley I would guess a faster car and maybe easier to live with...certainly moves away from manual gearbox (I drive an auto during the week to make life a easier in traffic)
Any owners on here that can offer an insight into CSL ownership would be apprecaited greatly!!
Also as I have only just started to consider the change, how does a CSL measure up to the zero depriciation of a 964 RS. They seem to have levelled off at around £30k-£35k after the fall from nearly £60k from new!?
Thanks.
Cant get rid of mine, nothing gets near it. I have tweaked mine to more of a track machine and purchased a daily driver. What offers that level of ability with so much praticality? nowt! Get one now before the prices start creeping up to the 40k mark, it will take a couple more years but they will increase
I used to own a 964RS and the CSL rides much better and is much more usable. The CSL is the only BMW that would be remotely comparable to an RS Porsche, it feels like their philosophies are related (thin glass window, lightweight compromises, lots of noise). There are certain changes that everyone makes to the CSL (including uprating the brakes and re-aligning the suspension) but they're a lot of fun to own (and nothing like an M3).
Prices seem to have settled at around £35-36k retail for the past 18 months or so.
Prices seem to have settled at around £35-36k retail for the past 18 months or so.
Edited by DoctorD on Saturday 10th June 21:31
Absolutely love mine. Looks, performance, noise and practical. Am in the process of changeing the brakes and suspension to get it all as good as it can be (brakes are a must if you want to drive it reasonably hard). The RS is a fantastic car but the CSL beats it on every count, aside from depreciation. Like others have said i can't see the CSL prices dropping much now.
I am looking to test drive one in the very near future.
I am aware of the need for brakes and suspension. The few CSL's I have seen have changed the front brakes,to what I presume to be 4 or 6 pot AP racing. Not sure of what people do to the suspension?
How do people find the SMG box? I know a lot of people dont like paddle shifts but I have to admit to prefer not to change manually in any car if at all possible.
I am aware of the need for brakes and suspension. The few CSL's I have seen have changed the front brakes,to what I presume to be 4 or 6 pot AP racing. Not sure of what people do to the suspension?
How do people find the SMG box? I know a lot of people dont like paddle shifts but I have to admit to prefer not to change manually in any car if at all possible.
Edited by escobar on Monday 12th June 11:51
escobar said:
I am looking to test drive one in the very near future.
I am aware of the need for brakes and suspension. The few CSL's I have seen have changed the front brakes,to what I presume to be 4 or 6 pot AP racing. Not sure of what people do to the suspension?
How do people find the SMG box? I know a lot of people dont like paddle shifts but I have to admit to prefer not to change manually in any car if at all possible.
I am aware of the need for brakes and suspension. The few CSL's I have seen have changed the front brakes,to what I presume to be 4 or 6 pot AP racing. Not sure of what people do to the suspension?
How do people find the SMG box? I know a lot of people dont like paddle shifts but I have to admit to prefer not to change manually in any car if at all possible.
Edited by escobar on Monday 12th June 11:51
I wouldn't recommend driving the CSL in auto mode, it's awful. Really awful.
But then anyone that does should get their hands slapped.
964 RS to CSL 
I've owned several 964 RSs, whilst they are a superb car on the right road, they are a car you really do have to be in the mood to drive on our potholed highways.
I owned a 993RS after finding the 964 was just too compromised for my requirements, the 993 was an improvement from a NVH viewpoint (but performance wise it was not a quantum leap over and above the 964)
I tried a CSL and found the SMG wasn't for me. The chassis and engine were perfect (the steering feel less so)
I finally decided on a RHD Mk1 GT3, and bought one for £7k more than the best CSLs on the market.
Whilst it isn't an everyday driver, it could be used as such.
It makes the 993 and 964 look positively pedestrian on the road (I'm not a trackday junkie) has all mod cons and looks stunning in Zanzibar Red (or burnt orange metallic if you prefer)
Before you decide on a CSL you owe it to yourself to try one !
If you want a demo/ test drive drop me a line. ( I'm in N. Wales)
I've owned several 964 RSs, whilst they are a superb car on the right road, they are a car you really do have to be in the mood to drive on our potholed highways.
I owned a 993RS after finding the 964 was just too compromised for my requirements, the 993 was an improvement from a NVH viewpoint (but performance wise it was not a quantum leap over and above the 964)
I tried a CSL and found the SMG wasn't for me. The chassis and engine were perfect (the steering feel less so)
I finally decided on a RHD Mk1 GT3, and bought one for £7k more than the best CSLs on the market.
Whilst it isn't an everyday driver, it could be used as such.
It makes the 993 and 964 look positively pedestrian on the road (I'm not a trackday junkie) has all mod cons and looks stunning in Zanzibar Red (or burnt orange metallic if you prefer)
Before you decide on a CSL you owe it to yourself to try one !
If you want a demo/ test drive drop me a line. ( I'm in N. Wales)
Thanks Ollie, I already have a daily driver. I wouldnt consider anything but the CSL. Normal M3, as impriessive as it is from the factory, just isnt the kind of car I would want to put my money into. They will be in the same postion as the E36 in the next few years...being available for sub £10k etc!!! Lost plenty of money on cars in the past and dont plan on doing that again in a rush.
CSL appeals because it is as close to the RS Porsche as a car can get. Lightweight approach with weight savings wherever possible (although I would probably further reduce that by removing the rear seats and carpets) with improved power and limited availability.
The RS would very difficult to get rid of (mine is a Clubsport, only circa 150 ever built) and is bullet depriciation. However I am not a collector and want to use the car. The trouble I am finding is that I drive around the country during the week and find it difficult to get motivated to take the car out at weekends or evenings. I feel the CSL will be easier to live with and offer similar or better performance for the same or slightly less money.
Also if anybody has ever owned an RS (LHD are the real ones
) If you are unfortunate enough to buzz the engine I have heard that it costs around £3,000 to £3,500 for a top end rebuild. Wouldnt be my first use of that amount of money and I believe its VERY easily done but dont want to be held back with that thought in my mind!!!
Reading above I get the impression that people are very happy with the CSL and aside from brakes, exhaust and suspension set-up, the cars are a great factory machine.
Has anybody had their car on the dyno to see how true the 360bhp is?
Also is the SMG box reliable?
Does the CSL have a limited slip diff?
CSL appeals because it is as close to the RS Porsche as a car can get. Lightweight approach with weight savings wherever possible (although I would probably further reduce that by removing the rear seats and carpets) with improved power and limited availability.
The RS would very difficult to get rid of (mine is a Clubsport, only circa 150 ever built) and is bullet depriciation. However I am not a collector and want to use the car. The trouble I am finding is that I drive around the country during the week and find it difficult to get motivated to take the car out at weekends or evenings. I feel the CSL will be easier to live with and offer similar or better performance for the same or slightly less money.
Also if anybody has ever owned an RS (LHD are the real ones
) If you are unfortunate enough to buzz the engine I have heard that it costs around £3,000 to £3,500 for a top end rebuild. Wouldnt be my first use of that amount of money and I believe its VERY easily done but dont want to be held back with that thought in my mind!!! Reading above I get the impression that people are very happy with the CSL and aside from brakes, exhaust and suspension set-up, the cars are a great factory machine.
Has anybody had their car on the dyno to see how true the 360bhp is?
Also is the SMG box reliable?
Does the CSL have a limited slip diff?
SMG box is totally reliable, but we've had some issues with the wear adjuster being overly cautious and thereby causing the clutch to prematurely wear. I had my clutch changed at 7,000 miles and since then I've had no further problems (but mine's only at 11,500 miles now).
As far as dyno performance, we took a CSL engine out and put it on a 'proper' engine dyno and with cats removed it was developing 375bhp, so 360bhp+ is a very realistic figure. Contrast that with the standard M3 engine that has often been found to be pushing out around 320-330bhp.
The CSL has a very clever limited slip diff that's called M-Diff, it allows very controllable drifts and at the same time is very adept at putting the power down.
As far as dyno performance, we took a CSL engine out and put it on a 'proper' engine dyno and with cats removed it was developing 375bhp, so 360bhp+ is a very realistic figure. Contrast that with the standard M3 engine that has often been found to be pushing out around 320-330bhp.
The CSL has a very clever limited slip diff that's called M-Diff, it allows very controllable drifts and at the same time is very adept at putting the power down.
Edited by DoctorD on Tuesday 13th June 18:02
baz1985 said:
What about the trim on steering wheel and seat, I've heard that the wear is worrying???
Not on mine it isn't, it still looks like new. The trick with the steering wheel is to clean it regularly with a fabric cleaner (particularly if you drive with sweaty hands). Then if it becomes bobbly, use a simple electric razor to trim the bobbles and it will look like new again.
My seats are perfect, the only sign of use is where the seatbelt rubs against the alcantara, where it looks a little shiny and less matt. Otherwise the backs of the seats are painted with a plastic coating and if you are careless this can scratch, revealing the base white plastic frame. Again, it hasn't been a problem for me..
I much prefer my Monaro VXR to my old M3 CSL.
Its not quite as sharp in absolute dynamic terms, but has much more grunt, a comedy v8 sound track and it needs wipers on the side windows. Throw in an AP racing break conversion at £2k and a 490bhp supercharger conversion for £2.5 and it would be even more fun.
I would drive one as relatively fresh vxr can be bought for the same price as a 5 year old M3.
I found the CSL incredibly competant but not what you could call fun in a bobbing nose 996 style, a cornering on rails Elise, or a grunty tyre smoker in the form of the VXR.
Bennno
Its not quite as sharp in absolute dynamic terms, but has much more grunt, a comedy v8 sound track and it needs wipers on the side windows. Throw in an AP racing break conversion at £2k and a 490bhp supercharger conversion for £2.5 and it would be even more fun.
I would drive one as relatively fresh vxr can be bought for the same price as a 5 year old M3.
I found the CSL incredibly competant but not what you could call fun in a bobbing nose 996 style, a cornering on rails Elise, or a grunty tyre smoker in the form of the VXR.
Bennno
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