Pagid RS14 or RS15 or RS29 (on AP brakes)?
Discussion
Hi,
I don't have a M3 CSL
But I have the a Z4M with AP brakes and it's exactly the same brake set-up as on the M3 CSL 
A lot of CSL owners uprated their OEM brakes to AP brakes and drive their cars on the track, so this seems like a good place to ask....
Currently I'm running Pagid RS4-2 (blue) on street and track. They squeal on the road and on the track they preform ok (but not stunning). If the blue's would be perfectly silent, then maybe I would keep them as a all round street and track pad. But they are not silent! The blue make noise with light braking, so when this is the case it's better to upgrade to better trackpads (which will also squeal). Sometimes the blue's leave some pad deposit on the rotors after hard track work and this results in a temporally steering judder. Noise will be the same with higher Pagids pads, but in my opinion braking will be improved (on track).
I'm planning on changing to other Pagid brake pads and have difficulty choosing between RS14 (black), RS15 (grey), RS29 (yellow).
I'm looking for the best compromise; Which one preforms best with low temperatures (when driving on street), makes the least noise and performs good on track and has some good initial bite. Noise is still an issue (I don't want them to be much louder then my already loud blue ones). I want the most silent of the 3 and best performing with low temperatures. I was thinking of buying the endurance Pagid RS29
Considering squealing noise, to make them more silent the edges will be chamfered with 45degrees and on the back op de pads there will be a little copper grease.
Thanks,
I don't have a M3 CSL
But I have the a Z4M with AP brakes and it's exactly the same brake set-up as on the M3 CSL A lot of CSL owners uprated their OEM brakes to AP brakes and drive their cars on the track, so this seems like a good place to ask....Currently I'm running Pagid RS4-2 (blue) on street and track. They squeal on the road and on the track they preform ok (but not stunning). If the blue's would be perfectly silent, then maybe I would keep them as a all round street and track pad. But they are not silent! The blue make noise with light braking, so when this is the case it's better to upgrade to better trackpads (which will also squeal). Sometimes the blue's leave some pad deposit on the rotors after hard track work and this results in a temporally steering judder. Noise will be the same with higher Pagids pads, but in my opinion braking will be improved (on track).
I'm planning on changing to other Pagid brake pads and have difficulty choosing between RS14 (black), RS15 (grey), RS29 (yellow).
I'm looking for the best compromise; Which one preforms best with low temperatures (when driving on street), makes the least noise and performs good on track and has some good initial bite. Noise is still an issue (I don't want them to be much louder then my already loud blue ones). I want the most silent of the 3 and best performing with low temperatures. I was thinking of buying the endurance Pagid RS29
Considering squealing noise, to make them more silent the edges will be chamfered with 45degrees and on the back op de pads there will be a little copper grease.
Thanks,
Edited by Franzino on Saturday 11th August 15:59
More info here
http://www.pagid-brake-pads.co.uk/products/
The RS4-2 are carbon based, the RS 29 are ceramic based. That may have an effect on noise, but generally speaking the more track orientated the pad, the noisier it will be.
HTH
Steve
Out of the ones you mentioned RS14 were better for both situations, no noise and great low temp performance and still great on track.
I've used RS29 more and they are great track pads on the CSL but can squeal sometimes which can be a bugger if you have 2500miles to do before the next trAckday.
rS15 didn't squeal for me but had poor cold perform name on the road.
I've used RS29 more and they are great track pads on the CSL but can squeal sometimes which can be a bugger if you have 2500miles to do before the next trAckday.
rS15 didn't squeal for me but had poor cold perform name on the road.
shim said:
Out of the ones you mentioned RS14 were better for both situations, no noise and great low temp performance and still great on track.
I've used RS29 more and they are great track pads on the CSL but can squeal sometimes which can be a bugger if you have 2500miles to do before the next trAckday.
rS15 didn't squeal for me but had poor cold perform name on the road.
When I read the Pagid website; I was under the impression that RS14 had worse low temperature performance then RS29 and the aggressive RS15. This was also the answer that the guy from Pagid told me... Considering noise; the guys from Pagid had no answer because in racing this is no issue.I've used RS29 more and they are great track pads on the CSL but can squeal sometimes which can be a bugger if you have 2500miles to do before the next trAckday.
rS15 didn't squeal for me but had poor cold perform name on the road.
stevesingo said:
More info here
http://www.pagid-brake-pads.co.uk/products/
The RS4-2 are carbon based, the RS 29 are ceramic based. That may have an effect on noise, but generally speaking the more track orientated the pad, the noisier it will be.
HTH
Steve
Reply from Pagid considering my brake pad question...
They advised the following brake pads as the best track set-up for my Z4M (with the best brake balance).
RS14 (front) and RS4-4 (rear)
This is without considering noise and low temperature handling on the street... About noise they have no answer, but in their opinion RS29 works better cold (when driving on the street).
Difficult to choice between those two.. RS29 vs RS14 / RS4-4
They advised the following brake pads as the best track set-up for my Z4M (with the best brake balance).
RS14 (front) and RS4-4 (rear)
This is without considering noise and low temperature handling on the street... About noise they have no answer, but in their opinion RS29 works better cold (when driving on the street).
Difficult to choice between those two.. RS29 vs RS14 / RS4-4
Edited by Franzino on Monday 13th August 21:33
Franzino said:
When I read the Pagid website; I was under the impression that RS14 had worse low temperature performance then RS29 and the aggressive RS15. This was also the answer that the guy from Pagid told me... Considering noise; the guys from Pagid had no answer because in racing this is no issue.
I thought you were after opinions of people who have used them. If you want to ignite that and go with the chart, why bother wasting our time asking?I found cold bite on rs14 pretty good and better than rs29 but then who knows how pad condition, glazing, crumbling face, disc condition affected my feel.
Both are good pads for track use and occasional road use.
Edited by shim on Tuesday 14th August 13:50
shim said:
I thought you were under opinions of people who have used them. If you want to ignite that and go with the chart, why bother wasting our time asking?
I found cold bite on rs14 pretty good and better than rs29 but then who knows how pad condition, glazing, crumbling face, disc condition affected my feel.
Both are good pads for track use and occasional road use.
I'm just saying what is written on the Pagid website and what the guy from Pagid told me. That's all, I'm not debating who is telling the truth or something like that I found cold bite on rs14 pretty good and better than rs29 but then who knows how pad condition, glazing, crumbling face, disc condition affected my feel.
Both are good pads for track use and occasional road use.
This was partly meant as a reply for Stevesingo, who posted the Pagid link and probably thought I did not look at the Pagid website before asking the question. I value the opinion of real life user more then some text on a manufacturers website, that's why I asked the same question here like I also asked at the Pagid salespeople.
I just ordered the RS14 (F) & RS4-4 (R)....and going to give them a test.
shim said:
I thought you were under opinions of people who have used them. If you want to ignite that and go with the chart, why bother wasting our time asking?
I found cold bite on rs14 pretty good and better than rs29 but then who knows how pad condition, glazing, crumbling face, disc condition affected my feel.
Both are good pads for track use and occasional road use.
I'm just saying what is written on the Pagid website and what the guy from Pagid told me. That's all, I'm not debating who is telling the truth or something like that I found cold bite on rs14 pretty good and better than rs29 but then who knows how pad condition, glazing, crumbling face, disc condition affected my feel.
Both are good pads for track use and occasional road use.
This was partly meant as a reply for Stevesingo, who posted the Pagid link and probably thought I did not look at the Pagid website before asking the question. I value the opinion of real life user more then some text on a manufacturers website, that's why I asked the same question here like I also asked at the Pagid salespeople.
I just ordered the RS14 (F) & RS4-4 (R)....and going to give them a test.
I'll call the break squeal an acquired taste. I've used (and using) Pagid RS29s on various BMWs (including CSL) and Porsche (GT2). The squeal bothered me at first but then I started to like it in a strange way. After a hard run, you come down to slow traffic and hear the squeal which reminds you that you just had some good fun and there is something special under your feet. I guess it a positive look at what would otherwise be an annoyance. 
The RS-14 (front) + RS4-4 (rear) are now 2 days on my car. Last night I did the Pagid bedding in procedure and some positive things came to the surface; brake modulation is a little better, they brake a little harder and for the moment they are still completely silent (I really hope they stay this way; that would be great). Next weekend will be the real test on the Nurburgring to see how they behave versus my old Pagid blue. Fingers crossed!
For the moment I like my set-up more then the blue ones I had before. Maybe one day I will test RS29? I have a friend (a real race car driver) who also has a track day prepared e92 M3 (AP all round, Michelin Cup +, Akrapovic, KW cup suspension, etc). This M3 is also his daily driver. He tested the Pagid RS29, RS14, RS15... RS29 come last for him... They last really long (endurance pads) but for him the braking (on track) is not at the same level as the RS14 and RS15. He now drives RS15 all round and they are his favorite. RS15 are the most aggressive and I think for me a bit to much on a lighter car like a Z4M, but on his M3 they work great.
For the moment I like my set-up more then the blue ones I had before. Maybe one day I will test RS29? I have a friend (a real race car driver) who also has a track day prepared e92 M3 (AP all round, Michelin Cup +, Akrapovic, KW cup suspension, etc). This M3 is also his daily driver. He tested the Pagid RS29, RS14, RS15... RS29 come last for him... They last really long (endurance pads) but for him the braking (on track) is not at the same level as the RS14 and RS15. He now drives RS15 all round and they are his favorite. RS15 are the most aggressive and I think for me a bit to much on a lighter car like a Z4M, but on his M3 they work great.
Edited by Franzino on Monday 1st October 21:22
The new brake pads are now one month on my car. Since that time I did the Pagid bedding in procedure, a week of normal slow street driving and 3 trip's to the Nurburgring. The brakes are now awesome..! I use to think my AP set-up was great....now I think the complete AP set-up is really awesome! With changing the brake pads I now have everything on the 100% "I like" level. Everything I wanted more about the AP brakes is now there. I have an increase in initial bite (on street and track), a little more braking power, higher working temperatures on track (650°C => 800°C), slightly better modulation and less ABS interference! :thumbsup:
At this moment the new brake pads are not silent anymore
. They were silent before the bedding in, after the bedding in, on the street, on the track…… I was filled with joy and it was to good to be true! But one day after the Nurburgring trip, they started to make the same squealing noise as the blue ones did. I have let my shop file of the edges (advised by Pagid) and put a really small amount of copper grease on the back of the pad where the pistond thouch the pads (did the same thing with my previous set of blue ones). I was worried that the RS-14 would not brake well when being cold on the street, but this is not the case...
At this moment the new brake pads are not silent anymore
. They were silent before the bedding in, after the bedding in, on the street, on the track…… I was filled with joy and it was to good to be true! But one day after the Nurburgring trip, they started to make the same squealing noise as the blue ones did. I have let my shop file of the edges (advised by Pagid) and put a really small amount of copper grease on the back of the pad where the pistond thouch the pads (did the same thing with my previous set of blue ones). I was worried that the RS-14 would not brake well when being cold on the street, but this is not the case...Gassing Station | CSL | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff