Yet another E39 M5 post..........
Discussion
I was updated the costs in the 'My Cars' section to see how much motoring had cost me over the last couple of years and was shocked by the figures. Between the skyline and the e34 I have spent a significant amount and I still find myself with a money pit and..... another money pit. One of which cannot be used to the extent it should be and the other which is (much as I try and convince myself it's a classic) a heap. An expensive heap to boot.
So the plan is to sell/px both cars and get myself something which is both fun yet capable of being driven for normal duties. This leads into what has to be one of the more common topics discussed in this forum. I have made full use of the search facility and also other M5 forums and from a purchase point of view they all seem to point to three things; condition, history & AUC warranty (not necessarily in that order!).
This is all well and good however since deciding the M5 is to be my next money pit I have discovered that to get all three you need to spend £20k give or take a few unless you compromise; with my newfound armchair M5 buying expertise the only point it is really feasible to compromise on is the AUC warranty, mostly because AUC cars are like hens teeth.
After scouring auto trader, P'heads and local ads there is really only one that stands out above the rest, in summary it is a 2002 model, very good condition, lowish mileage (47,000 miles), in my price range and has full BMWSH. The down sides are it is coming up to its Inspection II, still on original clutch and from what I can make out front discs/pads all indicating in the not too distant future there is a bill itro £1500. Not to mention it’s a post March 2001 car so there is the added cost of car tax – though I have to say an extra £200 a year should not be a major concern when considering an M5.
I do have several questions that are raised by this car.
1. There is no record of a running in service – is this a necessity on the 2002 E39 M5? (An advert with Munich Legends seems to think so.)
2. It is advertised for £16k – what’s the general consensus – too high or about right given its age, Ins II service due etc?
3. It comes with an AA 5* warranty; does anyone have any personal experience with these? Are they any better than say Warranty Direct which I understand is recommended by a couple of owners clubs?
The majority of my cars have tended to be impulse buys which is probably why they end up costing so much – this is probably the most research I have ever done prior to purchase and most of the time I play catch-up! The down side of this research is that for every post telling you it’s one of the best saloons ever there are another 10 spilling doom and gloom. Anyway over the expertise of the P’head collective!
So the plan is to sell/px both cars and get myself something which is both fun yet capable of being driven for normal duties. This leads into what has to be one of the more common topics discussed in this forum. I have made full use of the search facility and also other M5 forums and from a purchase point of view they all seem to point to three things; condition, history & AUC warranty (not necessarily in that order!).
This is all well and good however since deciding the M5 is to be my next money pit I have discovered that to get all three you need to spend £20k give or take a few unless you compromise; with my newfound armchair M5 buying expertise the only point it is really feasible to compromise on is the AUC warranty, mostly because AUC cars are like hens teeth.
After scouring auto trader, P'heads and local ads there is really only one that stands out above the rest, in summary it is a 2002 model, very good condition, lowish mileage (47,000 miles), in my price range and has full BMWSH. The down sides are it is coming up to its Inspection II, still on original clutch and from what I can make out front discs/pads all indicating in the not too distant future there is a bill itro £1500. Not to mention it’s a post March 2001 car so there is the added cost of car tax – though I have to say an extra £200 a year should not be a major concern when considering an M5.
I do have several questions that are raised by this car.
1. There is no record of a running in service – is this a necessity on the 2002 E39 M5? (An advert with Munich Legends seems to think so.)
2. It is advertised for £16k – what’s the general consensus – too high or about right given its age, Ins II service due etc?
3. It comes with an AA 5* warranty; does anyone have any personal experience with these? Are they any better than say Warranty Direct which I understand is recommended by a couple of owners clubs?
The majority of my cars have tended to be impulse buys which is probably why they end up costing so much – this is probably the most research I have ever done prior to purchase and most of the time I play catch-up! The down side of this research is that for every post telling you it’s one of the best saloons ever there are another 10 spilling doom and gloom. Anyway over the expertise of the P’head collective!
Hi mate and good choice!
I too wanted the M5 for its versatility and also its relative rarity.
I bought mine 13 months ago and was lucky enough to find one being sold by a buisnesman who had just paid out £1500 on consumables plus it had had £1500 worth of warranty work just completed.
It has been utterly brilliant in that time and 12k miles. I tend to have extra bits changed come service time (spark plugs, fuel filter etc) and I partly put its good behaviour down to that, plus a gentle right foot until she is up to tempreture. IMO the VANOS does not take kindly to being worked hard until the oil is properly heated. It works under high pressure and relies on good quality oil and a little sympathy when warming up.
IMO, the warranty is not essential. Unless you are seriously unlucky, all of the 'common' problems will not happen at once. The problem with car forums is you hear all of the negatives as people only pipe up when something has broken.
For me, yes the running in service is important. If it is not stamped in the book you can easily phone the servicing dealer to see if it on the system and the lack of stamp an oversight.
The service intervals on these cars is quite long (mine averages between 13 and 16k miles) so I wouldnt want new engine swarf circulating around as we are the ones who will see the damage.
16k for one of these is not overpriced. They vary wildly now, anywhere from 7k (wouldnt toch it) to up to 35k for one with 6k miles from Heaxgon Highgate a London main dealer.
At 47k miles the milage is low and provided it is in great condition, people will pay the extra. Your point of the Insp2 could be a good haggling point.
There is one at Munich Legends now http://www.munichlegends.co.uk/sales/stock_details... that I would consider should I be on the look out at the present time.
Can't answer your question 3, sorry.
If you have anything specific to ask I shall do my best.
Neil
I too wanted the M5 for its versatility and also its relative rarity.
I bought mine 13 months ago and was lucky enough to find one being sold by a buisnesman who had just paid out £1500 on consumables plus it had had £1500 worth of warranty work just completed.
It has been utterly brilliant in that time and 12k miles. I tend to have extra bits changed come service time (spark plugs, fuel filter etc) and I partly put its good behaviour down to that, plus a gentle right foot until she is up to tempreture. IMO the VANOS does not take kindly to being worked hard until the oil is properly heated. It works under high pressure and relies on good quality oil and a little sympathy when warming up.
IMO, the warranty is not essential. Unless you are seriously unlucky, all of the 'common' problems will not happen at once. The problem with car forums is you hear all of the negatives as people only pipe up when something has broken.
For me, yes the running in service is important. If it is not stamped in the book you can easily phone the servicing dealer to see if it on the system and the lack of stamp an oversight.
The service intervals on these cars is quite long (mine averages between 13 and 16k miles) so I wouldnt want new engine swarf circulating around as we are the ones who will see the damage.
16k for one of these is not overpriced. They vary wildly now, anywhere from 7k (wouldnt toch it) to up to 35k for one with 6k miles from Heaxgon Highgate a London main dealer.
At 47k miles the milage is low and provided it is in great condition, people will pay the extra. Your point of the Insp2 could be a good haggling point.
There is one at Munich Legends now http://www.munichlegends.co.uk/sales/stock_details... that I would consider should I be on the look out at the present time.
Can't answer your question 3, sorry.
If you have anything specific to ask I shall do my best.
Neil
) I agree with that - if I only follow the 5 green bars, I could probably run mine with service intervals of almost 25.000 km but that is because I do a lot of motorway miles. I never go beyond 15.000 km for services (normally 2 green bars remaining), as I feel this is the best (and in the long run cheapest) way to ensure engine longevity (with the usual disclaimer that the oil temperature should ALWAYS be fully warm (+90 degrees) before going beyond 3500 rpm).
As stated before, I would search for a post-facelift car, with as few owners as possible, and buy on condition rather than mileage + fully stamped service book, preferably with invoices of everything done outside of normal service.
As stated before, I would search for a post-facelift car, with as few owners as possible, and buy on condition rather than mileage + fully stamped service book, preferably with invoices of everything done outside of normal service.
Edited by rassi on Thursday 9th October 22:49
If I remember correctly the on you are interested in has been for sale for a long time now- at least from when I was searching for mine (Jan this year) and the price has dropped.
Go and test drive a few to get a feel for a "good one".
I bought mine after viewing and driving at least 6 others, it was not my initial colour choice but the seller and paperwork that he showed me before I even saw the car had almost made up my mind.
£16k is a lot of anyones money, and so take your time to work out the cars history and if it has been run on a shoe string or not, especially if buying from a non franchise dealer.
Some of these cars were over £60k when new, and its still a £60k car to keep tip-top now !
Go and test drive a few to get a feel for a "good one".
I bought mine after viewing and driving at least 6 others, it was not my initial colour choice but the seller and paperwork that he showed me before I even saw the car had almost made up my mind.
£16k is a lot of anyones money, and so take your time to work out the cars history and if it has been run on a shoe string or not, especially if buying from a non franchise dealer.
Some of these cars were over £60k when new, and its still a £60k car to keep tip-top now !
Neil, thanks for the link. I had initially discarded it because the mileage was a little higher than the others I looked at however re-reading the advert it does look well prepped (thanks Egbert) with a fair amount of work done recently. Chrisr29 does have a point - I would/have never let any car go for 17,000m without an oil change, even my current E34 gets treated every 10,000m and the skyline every 4,000m or so. Seems the norm with BMW service history though so it will probably be worth a trip down there and if nothing else to have a chat with one of the guys about M5's.
Gavm5 did you go and see the car in question (outlined in my first post, not the ML car)? Its dropped by £500 fairly recently and not far off the M4/M25? From telephone calls with the dealer he has all receipts for the servicing but there does not appear to be much work done outside of the service schedule (brakes, vanos, clutch etc) and no record of the running in service. Still could be worth a visit.
Gavm5 did you go and see the car in question (outlined in my first post, not the ML car)? Its dropped by £500 fairly recently and not far off the M4/M25? From telephone calls with the dealer he has all receipts for the servicing but there does not appear to be much work done outside of the service schedule (brakes, vanos, clutch etc) and no record of the running in service. Still could be worth a visit.
Eiger120 said:
.
Gavm5 did you go and see the car in question (outlined in my first post, not the ML car)? Its dropped by £500 fairly recently and not far off the M4/M25? From telephone calls with the dealer he has all receipts for the servicing but there does not appear to be much work done outside of the service schedule (brakes, vanos, clutch etc) and no record of the running in service. Still could be worth a visit.
No I did not go to see this one, think it was up nearer £20k when I was looking earlier in the year.Gavm5 did you go and see the car in question (outlined in my first post, not the ML car)? Its dropped by £500 fairly recently and not far off the M4/M25? From telephone calls with the dealer he has all receipts for the servicing but there does not appear to be much work done outside of the service schedule (brakes, vanos, clutch etc) and no record of the running in service. Still could be worth a visit.
Do not overly worry about the clutch - some members on here have never had a clutch replaced.
The vanos is less of an issue with the facelifted cars as they had the modifications as standard, just change oils regularly and let fluids warm before hard revs.
The running in service is all important to keep the warranty but as most are now out of warranty then its of no real importance other than the peace of mind that the original owner really cared about the car and as you said any new engine swarf would be removed.
Cars sold as an AUC will have a 12 month AUC warranty in the screen price from a main dealer but not always have the original warranty in place.
If you give BMW the last 7 chassis digits they can tell you every time the car has visited a main dealer and for what reason.
I am about to do the front discs and pads on mine, budget around £400 for OEM parts alone.
They are great allround cars that can be used everyday, you wont regret it just take your time as said earlier and get a feel for a good one.
I have just been emailed by my local BMW dealership. They have a 51 reg up for sale next weekend - currently 16,995, but they promise faithfully as they are having a used car event, it will be much cheaper.
I bought my e39 M5 from BMW with full AUC guarantee two years ago - i had the suspension bushes and MAFs done under warranty (zero excess for the first 12 months). Have a look into the MAFs - they are a costly job, and for me make the difference between the AUC price and non-franchised dealer price worth every penny. Also the rules on AUC are if the tyres have less that 3.5ml of tread they are required to replace them - if the car has less than 4000 miles until its next service is due, they have to service it (so the dealer told me at the time i bought mine).
Seriously though, ask anyone who has ever owned a 911 they'll tell you the same, buy the most expensive one you can afford with the best warranty and lowest mileage. The other cars you look at may be cheaper initially.....
Good luck and let us know how you get on - see you at M5board.com
Cheers
TrickyTrev
I bought my e39 M5 from BMW with full AUC guarantee two years ago - i had the suspension bushes and MAFs done under warranty (zero excess for the first 12 months). Have a look into the MAFs - they are a costly job, and for me make the difference between the AUC price and non-franchised dealer price worth every penny. Also the rules on AUC are if the tyres have less that 3.5ml of tread they are required to replace them - if the car has less than 4000 miles until its next service is due, they have to service it (so the dealer told me at the time i bought mine).
Seriously though, ask anyone who has ever owned a 911 they'll tell you the same, buy the most expensive one you can afford with the best warranty and lowest mileage. The other cars you look at may be cheaper initially.....
Good luck and let us know how you get on - see you at M5board.com
Cheers
TrickyTrev
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