The Glory Years...

[Stevo///M3]

When did BMW go crap?

The E30 has a well-documented line of praise wherever you look on t'interweb

I understand the E34 was a complete beauty. Never even been in one, but seen plenty of pics/movies

My E36 Evo 'vert is not quite in factory condition but is still hard to fault

The E39 M5 is, for me, the ultimate [car ever?] and just bangs on the door of actual modern motors - perhaps the car/model that bridges the gap between the old and new schools

Never fancied the modern 6 cars; some of the old E24s are nice

I'd go with the E38 7er - from mid nineties if you know the one I mean
You see so much negative stuff on E60 5s and E90etc 3s and 1series let alone what is said about the dealers/stealers...

Was there a turning point for the Bavarian spanner wielders in boiler siuts? Did they get some huge new factory or something that had a mind of its own or just plain handed power over to the guy in the suit? Or is it simply that Chris Bangle is to blame for everything? The body shapes just aren't there any more, except perhaps in the case of the Z4c and 1 coupe.

Anyone get the same feeling?

And, importantly, will these guys ever run out of E numbers?

[TheCaseAce]

Stevo///M3 said:

Anyone get the same feeling?

No, not at all.

Stevo///M3 said:

And, importantly, will these guys ever run out of E numbers?

They already did - the new 7 series is F01

[gizlaroc]

I think BMW have improved with each generation, I tend to look back on previous generations with rose tinted glasses on, but each gen is definitely better.

BMW have become a volume producer and they are now available to the masses, because of that and because they are doing so well they will always get bad press, unlike years ago when they more 'out of reach' to many they weren't knocked as much.

[fastandcurious]

Stevo///M3 said:

When did BMW go crap?

The E30 has a well-documented line of praise wherever you look on t'interweb

I understand the E34 was a complete beauty. Never even been in one, but seen plenty of pics/movies

My E36 Evo 'vert is not quite in factory condition but is still hard to fault

The E39 M5 is, for me, the ultimate [car ever?] and just bangs on the door of actual modern motors - perhaps the car/model that bridges the gap between the old and new schools

Never fancied the modern 6 cars; some of the old E24s are nice

I'd go with the E38 7er - from mid nineties if you know the one I mean
You see so much negative stuff on E60 5s and E90etc 3s and 1series let alone what is said about the dealers/stealers...

Was there a turning point for the Bavarian spanner wielders in boiler siuts? Did they get some huge new factory or something that had a mind of its own or just plain handed power over to the guy in the suit? Or is it simply that Chris Bangle is to blame for everything? The body shapes just aren't there any more, except perhaps in the case of the Z4c and 1 coupe.

Anyone get the same feeling?

And, importantly, will these guys ever run out of E numbers?

Yer I totally agree with you. As each generation of BMWs arrive they are bigger, heavier more complicated and weirder looking. For me, my favourite is the hand built E34 3.8 M5. I've never actually owned one but come close a few times. They will never run out of E numbers. I don't hanker after a new BMW. I've got two old ones that will do for now.

[ASBO]

I disagree.

I had a 1 series hire car last week ( a 116 no less) and it was a revelation.

Compared to my old creaky E34 M5, it felt taught, well balanced and extremely well damped. I was and still am shocked at just how much I enjoyed it.

Yes the steering was a little numb compared with the cars of yonder, but the game has moved on folks. Time to wake up and smell the coffee

[chrisr29]

ASBO said:

I disagree.

I had a 1 series hire car last week ( a 116 no less) and it was a revelation.

Compared to my old creaky E34 M5, it felt taught, well balanced and extremely well damped. I was and still am shocked at just how much I enjoyed it.

Yes the steering was a little numb compared with the cars of yonder, but the game has moved on folks. Time to wake up and smell the coffee

Maybe, but where's the perverse pleasure in driving something as common as a 1 series?

Bloody things are more prolific than Ford Escorts where ten years ago!

[waremark]

They get better. Bangle's flame surfacing was ahead of its time. The early examples shocked me, but now I think they look good, and they have been amazingly successful commercially. I think the 5 is generally regarded as better looking than its main rival the E class. (no, I'm not biased, I have an E).

BMW have made some really controversial moves which in my opinion were mistaken - run flats and i-drive across the range, SMG only on M5 and M6 come to mind. However none of these are bad enough to put many people off the cars.

[unzippy]

chrisr29 said:

Bloody things are more prolific than Ford Escorts where ten years ago!

And that makes it a bad car?

[chrisr29]

unzippy said:

chrisr29 said:

Bloody things are more prolific than Ford Escorts where ten years ago!

And that makes it a bad car?

Don't know, never driven one. I'm sure they're great but I'd rather spend 5k or whatever on an old M5 than 20k on a 1 series. I see no M5's on my commute but loads of 1's to the point where you get bored of seeing them.

[Rags]

Z3M Coupe?

e46 M3 CSL?

E60 M5?

Not bad cars if you ask me!

[french]

ASBO said:

I disagree.

I had a 1 series hire car last week ( a 116 no less) and it was a revelation.

Compared to my old creaky E34 M5, it felt taught, well balanced and extremely well damped. I was and still am shocked at just how much I enjoyed it.

Yes the steering was a little numb compared with the cars of yonder, but the game has moved on folks. Time to wake up and smell the coffee

ha ha whats the coffe smell like in the V12 the , still at least you wont spill any as they do have lovely silent & smooth ride Lol

[Cheburator mk2]

The truth is that there are hardly any crap cars out there anymore... Whilst in 1990 the gap in interior, exterior quality, handling etc. between a E30 318i and a Alfa Romeo 33 was huge, in the case of the new 3-series vs Alfa 159 you will be hard pressed to dismiss the Italian...

BMW has become a mass market producer, and yes, the new cars are superbly damped and engineered, but here I will make a big point, which ASBO is missing. They lack soul. Given that I have the hooligan of the current range as my daily steed I think I am even more qualified to make the statement. BMW has lost the magic, which made the E9 and E21, E30 and E34, the E28 and E24 the stuff of legends. There is something so special about these cars. Yes, the plastics feel funny, yes, the chasis requires you to actually drive it, yes, rear passenger space is limited, but they just feel right on their skinny tyres and archaic brakes. The new cars don't have that, they just feel like another S-class. Not a bad thing in itself, but if I wanted this, then I might as well buy a Mercedes. Accidentally, I will be buying a 63AMG estate sometimes in the new year...

P.S. If that is any consolation, most car makers are going this way... Look at the Mk 16v vs. the Mk4 or even 5...



I

[ASBO]

Cheburator mk2 said:

The truth is that there are hardly any crap cars out there anymore... Whilst in 1990 the gap in interior, exterior quality, handling etc. between a E30 318i and a Alfa Romeo 33 was huge, in the case of the new 3-series vs Alfa 159 you will be hard pressed to dismiss the Italian...

BMW has become a mass market producer, and yes, the new cars are superbly damped and engineered, but here I will make a big point, which ASBO is missing. They lack soul. Given that I have the hooligan of the current range as my daily steed I think I am even more qualified to make the statement. BMW has lost the magic, which made the E9 and E21, E30 and E34, the E28 and E24 the stuff of legends. There is something so special about these cars. Yes, the plastics feel funny, yes, the chasis requires you to actually drive it, yes, rear passenger space is limited, but they just feel right on their skinny tyres and archaic brakes. The new cars don't have that, they just feel like another S-class. Not a bad thing in itself, but if I wanted this, then I might as well buy a Mercedes. Accidentally, I will be buying a 63AMG estate sometimes in the new year...

P.S. If that is any consolation, most car makers are going this way... Look at the Mk 16v vs. the Mk4 or even 5...



I

Define 'soul' though.

Is it not the case that cars are so well made now that soul as we would previously imagine it, takes another form?

Don't get me wrong, the E34 M5 is a magical car (I'm on my 2nd), but I have to disagree that BMW don't make 'special' cars any more.

[dan101smith]

I've been resisting for a long time taking any of the current range of BMWs out for test drives, because I have little doubt that there are a number of them that would piss all over my E36 M3.

But, I do understand the peverse pleasure in maintaining and driving something older, and the sense of elation you get when some young Munich wippersnapper falls foul of my venerable 300bhp.

[Andyt25]

I had the use of a 135 Coupe the other week and I must say this is a cracking little car and to honest I enjoyed it more than the new M3 I had whilst my CSL was being serviced.

Edited by Andyt25 on Friday 10th October 06:21

[Job38]

I do agree with some of the OP, newer BMWs do nowt for me.

The E34 is probably the last model that really interested me.

Then again, perhaps it's an ale-drinking, Wagner-listening, OCD, grumpy old bloke thang?

[Cheburator mk2]

ASBO said:

Define 'soul' though.

Is it not the case that cars are so well made now that soul as we would previously imagine it, takes another form?

Don't get me wrong, the E34 M5 is a magical car (I'm on my 2nd), but I have to disagree that BMW don't make 'special' cars any more.

I am not sure... Look, I was sailing in Croatia this summer and I rented a Fiat Grande Punto 1.4 (don't laugh at the back) to get to the marina from Zagreb. 250miles each way along twisty roads. It had soul - it had a revvy italian 4-pot which screamed and begged to be thrashed, it had all the typical nice Italian design touches, it handled well for a shopping trolley, all in all it just felt right. In contrast, a 118i is bland, although it is a much, much better car overall...

[shamrock]

Build quality on BMW's since 2000 is terrible with the E46 M3 costing less to manufacture than a Renault Laguna.

And the styling has nosedived since Hooydonk took over, you can tell he is from Fiat with all that plastic moulding that now appears down the sides. Looks like the car comes straight out of a plastic mould now.

[Nurburgsingh]

chrisr29 said:

unzippy said:

chrisr29 said:

Bloody things are more prolific than Ford Escorts where ten years ago!

And that makes it a bad car?

Don't know, never driven one. I'm sure they're great but I'd rather spend 5k or whatever on an old M5 than 20k on a 1 series. I see no M5's on my commute but loads of 1's to the point where you get bored of seeing them.

and the fireblade used to be the best selling bike in britain and the holder of the Best bike award too... so your statement means nothing. It means even less because you haven't driven one.

Her in doors has got a 120d and its quicker and more competant across country then any of my old BMW's

E28 M5
E30 M3

and it's even got the edge over my 330d. If I still had any of the M cars i'd still take the 120 first 80% of the time.

but for the special 20%... well... there's no contest really. The M5 was quite literally the best car ever!

[chrisr29]

Job38 said:

Then again, perhaps it's an ale-drinking, Wagner-listening, OCD, grumpy old bloke thang?

Cool, it's not just me then!