Tyre pressures for M3 Evo on track?
Discussion
Guys,
I have standard tyres and rims on my M3 evo. What would you guys recommend for cold tyre pressures in preperation for a few laps of the Nurburgring? I am not talking about going nuts as this is my first trip, just no idea how much the temps increases air pressure whilst on track.
G
I have standard tyres and rims on my M3 evo. What would you guys recommend for cold tyre pressures in preperation for a few laps of the Nurburgring? I am not talking about going nuts as this is my first trip, just no idea how much the temps increases air pressure whilst on track.
G
Unless you are a driving God I seriously doubt you'll heat/increase pressure in your tyres enough to be worried about this. Not to mention if this is your first trip to the ring you'll be s
tting it. No amount of laps on the playstation can prepare you for the real thing and again, I'd doubt you'll be brave enough to push hard enough. Increases in tyre pressure only happen on race cars with slick tyres at racing speeds when they need to heat their tyres to make them sticky.
Road tyres do heat up for sure and you'd certainly find that if you were lapping the indy circuit at Brands for example as it's short with constant right turns so your front left takes all the pressure and could definately go off a bit.
I don't think you need worry about this at the Ring.
But enjoy. It's amazing and the M3 Evo is fantastic round there. Just be careful as there are absolutely no margins for error/run offs if you get it wrong and it's €000s to get recovered if you bin it. Treat it like a nice country road and enjoy your car. Don't go there with a view to setting laptimes. They will increase naturally as you go round more but if you find yourself taking risks and trying to set a time - that's the time NOT to go for one more lap!
tting it. No amount of laps on the playstation can prepare you for the real thing and again, I'd doubt you'll be brave enough to push hard enough. Increases in tyre pressure only happen on race cars with slick tyres at racing speeds when they need to heat their tyres to make them sticky.Road tyres do heat up for sure and you'd certainly find that if you were lapping the indy circuit at Brands for example as it's short with constant right turns so your front left takes all the pressure and could definately go off a bit.
I don't think you need worry about this at the Ring.
But enjoy. It's amazing and the M3 Evo is fantastic round there. Just be careful as there are absolutely no margins for error/run offs if you get it wrong and it's €000s to get recovered if you bin it. Treat it like a nice country road and enjoy your car. Don't go there with a view to setting laptimes. They will increase naturally as you go round more but if you find yourself taking risks and trying to set a time - that's the time NOT to go for one more lap!
Sorry Graeme, I'm going to have to disagree with Guy.
With standard pressures (say for aruments sake, 34PSI) I found that after a couple of laps on an admitedly hot day my tyres were reading ~45PSI! Because of this I managed to completely shag the offside tyre.
Therefore I would suggest lowering your pressures all round to about 27PSI and keeping a close eye on them.
As for the track itself, after about 15 laps I'd be surprised if you weren't coming in under 9 mins. On my 20th Lap or so I pulled an 8.40 BtoG and I'm no relation to Schuey. Don't be scared of the place.
Incidently, did you get my last email?
With standard pressures (say for aruments sake, 34PSI) I found that after a couple of laps on an admitedly hot day my tyres were reading ~45PSI! Because of this I managed to completely shag the offside tyre.
Therefore I would suggest lowering your pressures all round to about 27PSI and keeping a close eye on them.
As for the track itself, after about 15 laps I'd be surprised if you weren't coming in under 9 mins. On my 20th Lap or so I pulled an 8.40 BtoG and I'm no relation to Schuey. Don't be scared of the place.
Incidently, did you get my last email?
I agree with ASBO re pressures - after a couple of laps last weekend in my Evo the pressures were in the high 30s all round and I reduced them to 30.
I don't agree that putting in a lap under 9 minutes is advisable unless someone is both experienced and reasonably skilled. I went under the 9 minute barrier at the weekend but trying to do so is not good advice for the uninitiated at the Ring. There's a big difference between lapping safely under 9 minutes and lapping dangerously at a similar speed (not implying that this is you ASBO but I know people who lap at this speed but have no realisation of how close they are to their limits). You should remain very wary and respectful. There are many places where big crashes can occur and a detailed knowledge of the track is paramount to avoiding them. If you don't believe me then try entering Schwedenkreuz on the left side of the track at 130mph and see what happens (seriously, don't!).
Driving at the Ring is the best driving experience one can have and it should be treated with respect.
I don't agree that putting in a lap under 9 minutes is advisable unless someone is both experienced and reasonably skilled. I went under the 9 minute barrier at the weekend but trying to do so is not good advice for the uninitiated at the Ring. There's a big difference between lapping safely under 9 minutes and lapping dangerously at a similar speed (not implying that this is you ASBO but I know people who lap at this speed but have no realisation of how close they are to their limits). You should remain very wary and respectful. There are many places where big crashes can occur and a detailed knowledge of the track is paramount to avoiding them. If you don't believe me then try entering Schwedenkreuz on the left side of the track at 130mph and see what happens (seriously, don't!).
Driving at the Ring is the best driving experience one can have and it should be treated with respect.
Edited by kusee pee on Thursday 31st July 22:20
...and do I remember correctly that that damage was not even on the Ring?I actually totally disagree wiht all of you, road tyres have much softer sidewalls than race tyres and therefore dropping the pressures will allow the shoulder to roll over on itself, for normal road tyres on track you should not drop the pressures and I actually increase them, i destroyed many a set of PS2's until someone politely pointed out to me that the michelin on the side of my tyre was unreadable due to being totally rubbed out!
taffyracer said:
I actually totally disagree wiht all of you, road tyres have much softer sidewalls than race tyres and therefore dropping the pressures will allow the shoulder to roll over on itself, for normal road tyres on track you should not drop the pressures and I actually increase them, i destroyed many a set of PS2's until someone politely pointed out to me that the michelin on the side of my tyre was unreadable due to being totally rubbed out!
Hi Taffy, I bow to your experience but one quick question. My thinking has always been to reduce pressures because of them risng naturally as the tyres get hot on track - therefore the reduction doesn't make them overly low, more it prevents them from running at too high a pressure due to heat. I may be talking nonsense - can you expand?Yep that theory is sound but with a road tyre the sidewalls simply roll on themselves and create more heat so the pressure difference rockets, putting a few pounds in takes away this problem and thus the pressure difference when hot is alot lower, i've started on 38 and ended at 42 on many occasions after 10-12 full on laps at Combe, i've also started at 28-32 and ended at 42 but with shagged sidewalls again at Combe, the rolling of the shoulder creates alot of unecessary heat build up, it's not the contact patch that's overheating it's the sidewalls collapsing on themselves that is causing the large pressure variation
Edited by taffyracer on Saturday 2nd August 10:05
taffyracer said:
Yep that theory is sound but with a road tyre the sidewalls simply roll on themselves and create more heat so the pressure difference rockets, putting a few pounds in takes away this problem and thus the pressure difference when hot is alot lower, i've started on 38 and ended at 42 on many occasions after 10-12 full on laps at Combe, i've also started at 28-32 and ended at 42 but with shagged sidewalls again at Combe, the rolling of the shoulder creates alot of unecessary heat build up, it's not the contact patch that's overheating it's the sidewalls collapsing on themselves that is causing the large pressure variation
Thanks Taffy, that's very interesting. I'll try that at Brands in a couple of weeks. Whilst I'm on the point, I've purchased some ex-WTCC slicks for the track - what pressures would you recommend with these as the sidewalls will be much stiffer?Edited by taffyracer on Saturday 2nd August 10:05
slicks are very different, don't know the yokohama but most slicks i've used operate best when around 31psi and around 90o, this time of year i would start around 24ps, less if it's hot...say 22-23 or more if it's cold/wet 26/27 maybe, just do 10 laps and see what they come out and drop/add accordingly, i would however check with Yokohama, they might work differently to what i'm used to
Agree with Taffy here, I'm running harder pressures on my e36 than I used to, used to track few lighter cars & 2 bar was the norm but going its far better for handling & the tyre, was at Monza & 'ring 2 wks ago, both bloody hot & started out with around 2.5/2.6 bar & it rose no higher than 3.0bar & still was ok handling wise at that & overall its far happier than it was at lower pressures. (regular road rubber- Goodyear F1s)
Agree here.. you have to run road tyres to a footprint, theres not too much grip on the sidewalls.. even on the Michelin Logo..
although i have seen many people destroy a good set of fronts in an hour.. by having them too low...!
On road 19 inch PS2's I ended up with about 42 front 43 rear hot pressures.. 36fr 37 rr cold..
I use a pot of trainer white.. dab it on the side wall / tread blocks.. go out and do 5 or 6 laps..and once hot gradually let them down until the contact footprint is just over the edge of the treadblocks... if you go any lower you WILL destroy your outer shoulders.. you can go lower on increased camber setups.. but as a rule go on the high side rather than low.. or you will be buying a lot of tyres..!
As taffy says.. slick and Cups are very different I run them about 32 / 33 hot..
although i have seen many people destroy a good set of fronts in an hour.. by having them too low...!On road 19 inch PS2's I ended up with about 42 front 43 rear hot pressures.. 36fr 37 rr cold..
I use a pot of trainer white.. dab it on the side wall / tread blocks.. go out and do 5 or 6 laps..and once hot gradually let them down until the contact footprint is just over the edge of the treadblocks... if you go any lower you WILL destroy your outer shoulders.. you can go lower on increased camber setups.. but as a rule go on the high side rather than low.. or you will be buying a lot of tyres..!
As taffy says.. slick and Cups are very different I run them about 32 / 33 hot..
Edited by RatBoy M3CS on Tuesday 5th August 17:20
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