Why are early, tidy M5's so expensive ?
Discussion
Supply & demand?
There are (literally) thousands of e39 M5s compared to hundred of 3.8 e34 M5s.
To find an e34 in good condition means the owner has spent a LOT of money keeping that way and want to recoup some of the costs.
The e34 is still not as desirable/collectible as the e28, but it's getting that way - and it's a more raw drive than the big cruiser that the e39 is.
I picked my early (1990) 3.6 for £3300, but have probably spent £10k in 18 months replacing everything that needed replacing (and there's still a bit to go). However, the market wouldn't stand me putting it up for more than about £5k, so it's not worth me selling it - and I'm planning on keeping this one until it dies (like my last one).
All IMHO of course.
There are (literally) thousands of e39 M5s compared to hundred of 3.8 e34 M5s.
To find an e34 in good condition means the owner has spent a LOT of money keeping that way and want to recoup some of the costs.
The e34 is still not as desirable/collectible as the e28, but it's getting that way - and it's a more raw drive than the big cruiser that the e39 is.
I picked my early (1990) 3.6 for £3300, but have probably spent £10k in 18 months replacing everything that needed replacing (and there's still a bit to go). However, the market wouldn't stand me putting it up for more than about £5k, so it's not worth me selling it - and I'm planning on keeping this one until it dies (like my last one).
All IMHO of course.
The E34 M5 in 3.6 form, 3.8 Touring or saloon form were ALL hand built in Garching and this was the last model to have its hertiage directly descended from the M1. These cars are beautifully crafted, sound wonderful, can take some considerable punishment and if fettled correctly can really fly.
Finding a good car is hard, finding somebody to work on it is not so easy and certain parts on 3.8's can be expensive, but these cars are well worth the effort and good ones are fast developing a 'cult' following and are slowly being collected and kept original.
Buy one now, in 18 montsh time many will be broken down into parts and prices will go above any number of early pre facelift E39's.
Finding a good car is hard, finding somebody to work on it is not so easy and certain parts on 3.8's can be expensive, but these cars are well worth the effort and good ones are fast developing a 'cult' following and are slowly being collected and kept original.
Buy one now, in 18 montsh time many will be broken down into parts and prices will go above any number of early pre facelift E39's.
mmm-five said:
Supply & demand?
There are (literally) thousands of e39 M5s compared to hundred of 3.8 e34 M5s.
When fifth gear did a review of the E60 M5, they gave away an E39 M5 in their competition, whilst giving details of the car they mentioned 1,500 E39 M5s were brought into the UK. Was this figure correct?There are (literally) thousands of e39 M5s compared to hundred of 3.8 e34 M5s.
mmm-five said:
Supply & demand?
To find an e34 in good condition means the owner has spent a LOT of money keeping that way and want to recoup some of the costs.
All IMHO of course.
To keep an e39 ///M5 in top fettle will never be cheap either tho -To find an e34 in good condition means the owner has spent a LOT of money keeping that way and want to recoup some of the costs.
All IMHO of course.
As you know (like yourself) I have owned both and early 3.6, one of the last 3.8's and am now lucky enough to have an e39 M5 as my daily drive.
I feel that they are all more of a love affair than an investment, and you are unlikely to return any of the money you spend in keeping them up to scratch. Those with good history and provenance as with any car will always be more desirable than the 12 owner no service book run on a shoestring dodgy paint knacker.
But they are ALL built for driving hard and enjoying as ///M intended, keep them standard, well serviced and upto date in the repairs department and any model ///M5 will put a smile on your face.
No, I got 12 mpg in heavy traffic. They're like Concorde - not meant to go slowly. Concorde used more fuel taxiing to the runway than your average jet does cruising at 500 mph. Concorde then becomes (relatively) more efficient at 1350 mph (still a drinker compared to your passenger jet).
The E34 doesn't have VANOS, so has the same valve overlap at idle as it does at its more efficient revs. This is why it rarely idles without rocking the whole car (love that). The straight six is actually quite efficient on a run when you consider its age, power, specific output and the weight of car. You can get close on 30 mpg out of a six speed if you drive like a granny.
Apart from that once I always drove like a t
t in my last 6 speed, though never on short trips, and averaged just under 20 mpg my whole time with it. Then i got banned...
Given like for like a 6 cylinder engine should be more efficient than an 8/10 cylinder - less surface area for heat loss, less internal friction, less weight, less drag from increased cooling requirements.
The E34 doesn't have VANOS, so has the same valve overlap at idle as it does at its more efficient revs. This is why it rarely idles without rocking the whole car (love that). The straight six is actually quite efficient on a run when you consider its age, power, specific output and the weight of car. You can get close on 30 mpg out of a six speed if you drive like a granny.
Apart from that once I always drove like a t
t in my last 6 speed, though never on short trips, and averaged just under 20 mpg my whole time with it. Then i got banned... Given like for like a 6 cylinder engine should be more efficient than an 8/10 cylinder - less surface area for heat loss, less internal friction, less weight, less drag from increased cooling requirements.
Would agree with other comments re value. The E34 is rarer and a less sanitised driving experience - the traction control is down to your brain for example. It also has very predictable handling though less grip than an E39's Z-axle, and is altogether a more "analogue" experience. It also has an engine designed by Rosche and with true motorsport pedigree. The S62 was a road engine first and last.
Looking in the classifieds the E39's are quite common, the E34's are not. Reading some of these threads also makes me think the exorbitant sums currently being spent on my E34 are not as bad as some of the bills that will face the older E39's.
Modern cars get more complicated, less easy to fix. I've just spent £2.5+k on a new clutch, slave cylinder and gearbox. Can you imagine looking after a 14 year old E60's SMG box?? There will be a line in manual conversions I reckon.
Looking in the classifieds the E39's are quite common, the E34's are not. Reading some of these threads also makes me think the exorbitant sums currently being spent on my E34 are not as bad as some of the bills that will face the older E39's.
Modern cars get more complicated, less easy to fix. I've just spent £2.5+k on a new clutch, slave cylinder and gearbox. Can you imagine looking after a 14 year old E60's SMG box?? There will be a line in manual conversions I reckon.
My 3.8 uses around 17.8 MPG in central London and 25.4 on most motorway journeys to the Midlands and further north or west. Use the six gears, don't mash the throttle in town and your fuel bills will not be too high. On a decent run 390 miles is easily possible from a full tank of V Power.
Edited by belleair302 on Monday 19th May 15:20
belleair302 said:
My 3.8 uses around 17.8 MPG in central London and 25.4 on most motorway journeys to the Midlands and further north or west. Use the six gears, don't mash the throttle in town and your fuel bills will not be too high. On a decent run 390 miles is easily possible from a full tank of V Power.
Is that OBC?Edited by belleair302 on Monday 19th May 15:20
My OBC consistently reads 18.9mpg on the button, but it gets driven in the same vein everytime it goes out, steady for 15mins or so until the oil is up to temp then I like to rev it because the sound and pace is too good to resist.
That's what the car is for - surely you wouldn't buy one if you were concerned about fuel economy!!!
That's what the car is for - surely you wouldn't buy one if you were concerned about fuel economy!!!
Gravy said:
My OBC consistently reads 18.9mpg on the button, but it gets driven in the same vein everytime it goes out, steady for 15mins or so until the oil is up to temp then I like to rev it because the sound and pace is too good to resist.
That's what the car is for - surely you wouldn't buy one if you were concerned about fuel economy!!!
You wouldn't buy one at all if you were concerned about saving money That's what the car is for - surely you wouldn't buy one if you were concerned about fuel economy!!!
(says he who broken down on Monday and had to replace the water pump & viscous fan, and then picked the car up on Friday and ran out of power half-way home to find the alternator was busted - and all that was after a huge amount of dosh had been spent on servicing, new lights, new suspension, etc) *
* but I'M not a WUSS, and I'M KEEPING MINE
Edited by mmm-five on Sunday 25th May 15:51
Baddie said:
belleair302 said:
My 3.8 uses around 17.8 MPG in central London and 25.4 on most motorway journeys to the Midlands and further north or west. Use the six gears, don't mash the throttle in town and your fuel bills will not be too high. On a decent run 390 miles is easily possible from a full tank of V Power.
Is that OBC?Edited by belleair302 on Monday 19th May 15:20
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