M3 Evo - Anti Roll Bar or Lowering Kit

[gwatson]

Afternoon guys,

More suspension queries from me


Already ordered some powerflex bushes as I know the old ones are soft or worn and trying to track down a Z3 1.9 steering column.

I have money left over to either fit Anti Roll bars (front and rear) or perhaps Bilstein shocks and Ebiach springs, both followed by a geometry check. Car has done 70k and is a '98. Which would improve the handling the most? The car certainly rolls when corners and dives under braking, but that could well be the worn bushes??? I certainly don't want a 40mm+ drop as I need to maintain good ground clearnance. The car is used for "fast" road with the potential of a few track days in the future once the car is fully sorted. I am little worried I fit anti roll bars to find out my shocks are the problem... On the other hand I think the roll bars require different bush sizes so don't want to do that twice Eventually I'll do everything.

I've never had anti roll bars before:
1- Do they require a lot of messing around to get the car setup properly or is there a "default\neutral" setting?
2- Does it reduce ground clearance, just thinking if they hang lower than the chassis etc?

Look forward to your recommendations?

Edited to ask, M3's come with anti roll bars as standard, therefore am I likely to notice a difference.. guess they wouldn't sell if they didn't????

Edited by gwatson on Thursday 24th April 13:32

Edited by gwatson on Thursday 24th April 14:49

[E36GUY]

Apparently the standard ARBs on an Evo are perfectly ok and fitting aftermarket ones can be a pointless task. Bushes etc though. All good.

[RatBoy M3CS]

Its going to help you a lot if you can get the ride height down too on the track, roll bars will reduce the total body roll a little, and stiffen it up, but dampers will do a lot more for the handling and control how the body roll is delivered gradually, the OEM dampers are poor at best..

Have a look at your budget, this will most likely give you your answer.. a set of KW's coilovers fitted is going to come in @ £1500 with a geo reset.. Farbs and Farbs will be under £500..

Ideally do both and lower it a bit too..

[ASBO]

E36GUY said:

Apparently the standard ARBs on an Evo are perfectly ok and fitting aftermarket ones can be a pointless task. Bushes etc though. All good.

I thought this until I fitted Eibach adjustable ARB's. Car has been totally transformed. This was after I fitted coilovers and polly bushes a month prior.

Do it.

[gwatson]

ASBO said:

I thought this until I fitted Eibach adjustable ARB's. Car has been totally transformed. This was after I fitted coilovers and polly bushes a month prior.
Do it.

I sent you a PM earlier, did you get it?

So you would recommend ARB's with polly bushes before coilovers? Ca_Automotive said the roll in the corner is becuase of the shocks and springs.. doing my head knowing what to do first

Who did you poly bushes in Aberdeen. How much did it cost and where did you get your tracking sorted?

G

[ASBO]

gwatson said:

ASBO said:

I thought this until I fitted Eibach adjustable ARB's. Car has been totally transformed. This was after I fitted coilovers and polly bushes a month prior.
Do it.

I sent you a PM earlier, did you get it?

So you would recommend ARB's with polly bushes before coilovers? Ca_Automotive said the roll in the corner is becuase of the shocks and springs.. doing my head knowing what to do first

Who did you poly bushes in Aberdeen. How much did it cost and where did you get your tracking sorted?

G

Reply sent

[CRACKIE]

Hello G,
Understand what you mean about doing your head in deciding what to do first..........Very interested to hear how things progress on your car 'cos it looks like were trying to address similar issues. I've just received Eibach ARBs and Pro Kit springs from Bexley yesterday; the Eibach ARBs come with new poly bushes so no need for Polyflex there. Will let you know what their effect is as soon as they're on the car.

Fitting new brake lines, pads and fluid is my first priority though, followed by parts above so might be a few days before I can feedback. Plan after that is new Bilstein B8 dampers, then strut brace & cross brace. If time allows I'm planning to make all changes individually so I can check out the contribution of each.

I've had some feedback, regarding original shock condition, from others who have M3 experience and driven my car recently. Opinion seems to be that the original 72K mile shocks are OK. It feels very tired to me though, relative to have it behaved at 55K when I first got it and it's clear from the more experienced forum guys that the OE shocks are poor at best.

Cheers for now.
D

Edited by CRACKIE on Friday 25th April 12:38

Edited by CRACKIE on Friday 25th April 12:40

[RatBoy M3CS]

Poly Bushes...

On the roll bars and drop links poly ones would be ok, but i would think 2wice before you start polybushing the suspension arms and the rest of it, unless you are going to have this as a track only car, it will shake your fillings out.. Some track guys come back from poly bushes as these are a step to far, best talk to an E30 racer and see what hes found out.. but most likely for road use dont go there..

taffyracer will be clued up here...

[gwatson]

RatBoy M3CS said:

Poly Bushes...

On the roll bars and drop links poly ones would be ok, but i would think 2wice before you start polybushing the suspension arms and the rest of it, unless you are going to have this as a track only car, it will shake your fillings out.. Some track guys come back from poly bushes as these are a step to far, best talk to an E30 racer and see what hes found out.. but most likely for road use dont go there..

taffyracer will be clued up here...

Interesting.... not heard that view before and it's def something I want to avoid. Perhaps best replacing the others with standard BMW bushes?? So which would you leave standard and which would you use Powerflex for?

So these are the options from the full kit:

FRONT LOWER WISHBONE REAR BUSH x2
FRONT ANTI ROLL BAR BUSH x2 (Part of ARB kit)
REAR ANTI ROLL BAR MOUNTING BUSH 19mm x2 (Part of ARB kit)
REAR BEAM MOUNTING FRONT BUSH x2
REAR BEAM MOUNTING REAR BUSH X 2
REAR TRAILING ARM FRONT BUSH X 2

[CRACKIE]

Advice from my local BMW indie in St. Ives reitterates RatBoy's comments :- that full Powerflex setup is too harsh for most ( road use). Apparently most people who've had full Powerflex fitted so far have returned to standard setup very shortly afterwards. A combination seems to be the best compromise ; certainly with Powerflex on rear trailing arms.

[gwatson]

Here's what one BMW tuner told me:

If the car's usage is fast road and the odd track day then you will probably find a roll bar kit will be enough. In any case I think it's best to do these things in stages so you can appreciate each upgrade on it's own merit. Furthermore polybushes are certainly a worthwhile upgrade, they have a longer life and will certainly freshen up an older car. We do not stock Ferrodo for the E36, just Black Diamond at the moment.

>>>>>> I can offer you the following:
>>>>>> Clutch Hose (6spd) £ 44.65
>>>>>> E36 6 Line Hose Kit £ 75.20
>>>>>> Brake Fluid 1ltr £ 4.70
>>>>>> Poly Frt Roll Bar Kit £ 25.85
>>>>>> Poly Rear Roll Bar Kit £ 25.85
>>>>>> Frt Wishbone Bush Kit £ 44.65
>>>>>> Rear Trail Arm Kit £ 54.05
>>>>>> H&R ARB £305.00
>>>>>> Carriage F.O.C

[breezy]

Thorney seem to think that factory ARBS are fine although it isn't clear whether they are referring to e46 derivatives only.

Interesting read nonetheless:
http://www.thorneymotorsport.co.uk/content/site/im...

Edited by breezy on Friday 25th April 18:01

[Whiters]

I've got Hartge ARBs on my 3.0. The only other change is Poweflex on rear trailing arms. Roll is not an issue at all for fast-road, but no experience yet of the heavier loads track work will place on it. Soon, hopefully!

[RatBoy M3CS]

Thorney sorted mine out with some KW3 coilovers.. the difference i have to say is huge.. it used to corner like it was on the door handles.. now it corners flat.. the shocks are no more aggresive on the road than OEM ones.. (set to soft) but on the track its night and day better... I'm leavin the roll bars as stock.. next Silverstone day on the 13th will trial a set of CSL rims, with an extra 10mm tyre with front and rear .. and hoping to take out the last bit of understeer with the extra 5mm front offset... see if we can get it into the early to mid 2'20's...

I found 6 seconds after Thorney did the brakes and dampers....

R...