E46 M3 or E36 M3 for Road / Track?
Discussion
I'm considering either of the above for road/track. I will only do a few trackdays per year, 3/4 if lucky!
So any thoughts on spending 5-8k on an E36 plus a few tweeks like changing the seats, and uprating brakes and suspension. Or 12-15k on an E46 and leaving it standard apart from brakes.
It needs to be good on long journeys too as my health isn't good.
Thoughts/advice appreciated.
Cheers
ps. please don't suggest an e46 plus mods as the standard car takes the 'budget'!!
So any thoughts on spending 5-8k on an E36 plus a few tweeks like changing the seats, and uprating brakes and suspension. Or 12-15k on an E46 and leaving it standard apart from brakes.
It needs to be good on long journeys too as my health isn't good.
Thoughts/advice appreciated.
Cheers
ps. please don't suggest an e46 plus mods as the standard car takes the 'budget'!!
If you want to have fun on the track then avoid a standard E46. You will need to uprate the suspension which at 2-3k for a decent and thorough overhall, puts the E46 out of budget.
If it's purely for track fun, then a cheap but sound 3.0 E36 as a base with about £8k spent on it will give you a car that's almost untouchable on the track and much, much faster than the E46.
For an idea of how fast you can make a cheap M3, see here up against a modified VX220 Turbo: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NyQ1PJWzXm8
Of course the above M3 is probably a little too hardcore for general road use, but if necessary a compromise can be sought by way an M3 Evo with about £4-5k spent on it. I'm currently doing exactly this with my Evo, so if you need some advise/tips then feel free to drop me a line
If it's purely for track fun, then a cheap but sound 3.0 E36 as a base with about £8k spent on it will give you a car that's almost untouchable on the track and much, much faster than the E46.
For an idea of how fast you can make a cheap M3, see here up against a modified VX220 Turbo: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NyQ1PJWzXm8
Of course the above M3 is probably a little too hardcore for general road use, but if necessary a compromise can be sought by way an M3 Evo with about £4-5k spent on it. I'm currently doing exactly this with my Evo, so if you need some advise/tips then feel free to drop me a line
Edited by ASBO on Monday 31st March 17:51
I've seen other vids of that car - sounds good too.
One of my main concerns, as I mention above, is ensuring that the car will still be good to drive long distances in comfort.
I also do not want to spend loads on modifying the car, maybe 3k. I certainly wouldn't want to spend 8k on mods. Spent over 20 on my last (current) car and I can't afford to throw that sort of money away again!!
Maybe if I could find one with a few 'tweeks' !! Probably an Evo, but maybe a GT? - I do like them!
Gotta sell my Impreza first though..........
http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/441349.htm
My thoughts at the moment are to go for an e36, change seats to Recaro Sport Trendline maybe (so I don't fall out) with harness's, uprated brakes; hoses, pads, fluid. The suspension I think will be the trickiest area, I was thinking a damper and eibach spring combination with uprated arb's as I still want a compliant road ride. An exhaust and remap would be nice, but have to see how the cash goes - quickly I find!
What are you doing to yours ASBO?
Cheers
Martin
One of my main concerns, as I mention above, is ensuring that the car will still be good to drive long distances in comfort.
I also do not want to spend loads on modifying the car, maybe 3k. I certainly wouldn't want to spend 8k on mods. Spent over 20 on my last (current) car and I can't afford to throw that sort of money away again!!
Maybe if I could find one with a few 'tweeks' !! Probably an Evo, but maybe a GT? - I do like them!
Gotta sell my Impreza first though..........
http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/441349.htm
My thoughts at the moment are to go for an e36, change seats to Recaro Sport Trendline maybe (so I don't fall out) with harness's, uprated brakes; hoses, pads, fluid. The suspension I think will be the trickiest area, I was thinking a damper and eibach spring combination with uprated arb's as I still want a compliant road ride. An exhaust and remap would be nice, but have to see how the cash goes - quickly I find!
What are you doing to yours ASBO?
Cheers
Martin
Nice looking Impreza.
If you want to maintain a nod to road usability, then a nice Evo with some coilovers thrown at it will entertain - although not as much as your Impreza though.
£3k will get you Bilstein PSS9's, polly bushes, ajustable top mounts, braided hoses and some decent pads. If you do all the work yourself, you'll be able to bag a set of track wheels with tyres.
However, any Evo you buy - or any M3 for that matter will likely need freshening up, which will eat into your budget.
From experience, the M3 is not the most wallet friendly thing for track use. Even fully stripped out (itself a massive job) they are on the heavy side and will eat tyres and brakes.
As far as the GT goes, they are a nice piece of kit and are effectively a half-way house between the 3.0 and the Evo in terms of pace, but offering the added bonus by being a fair bit lighter than either and a tad more 'focussed' too.
However, you'll pay for the privilage and you can have any colour you like as long as its dark green. IMO they're not worth the additional outlay, but that's all down to personal preference.
HTH
If you want to maintain a nod to road usability, then a nice Evo with some coilovers thrown at it will entertain - although not as much as your Impreza though.
£3k will get you Bilstein PSS9's, polly bushes, ajustable top mounts, braided hoses and some decent pads. If you do all the work yourself, you'll be able to bag a set of track wheels with tyres.
However, any Evo you buy - or any M3 for that matter will likely need freshening up, which will eat into your budget.
From experience, the M3 is not the most wallet friendly thing for track use. Even fully stripped out (itself a massive job) they are on the heavy side and will eat tyres and brakes.
As far as the GT goes, they are a nice piece of kit and are effectively a half-way house between the 3.0 and the Evo in terms of pace, but offering the added bonus by being a fair bit lighter than either and a tad more 'focussed' too.
However, you'll pay for the privilage and you can have any colour you like as long as its dark green. IMO they're not worth the additional outlay, but that's all down to personal preference.
HTH
I've gone for an E36 Evo with Intrax coilovers, adjustable ARB and top mounts, and will shortly be fitting either new OEM discs with Pagid pads (plus braided hoses and 5.1 fluid) or a BBK (AP or Mo'vit), and that should see me good for the track. As per a different thread, I'm toying with a set of slicks on some spare alloys, but otherwise ready to go.
Ought to make a decent track tool, although as ASBO says, I'm expecting to eat through tyres, and to some extent pads. And obviously fuel. A LOT of fuel.
Ought to make a decent track tool, although as ASBO says, I'm expecting to eat through tyres, and to some extent pads. And obviously fuel. A LOT of fuel.
The perfect base for a track car, all it needs is some uprated brakes 
http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/430328.htm
http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/430328.htm
Edited by M7RT V on Tuesday 1st April 21:45
It needs to be a road car then a track car. As you yourself put it so well in replying to another thread of mine "a capable track car with GT bent" seems to sum up my requirement I think.
So I don't want to strip it out etc etc, the Impreza was built with roadgoing hillclimbing in mind so don't want to go that far.
As this was my criteria from the other post:
"Must be good for road use to allow driving to track and touring, need a/c!
Therefore needs some luggage space.
Good on track to develop driver skill.
Not too expensive to run (Fuel, Insurance, Tyres, Servicing etc)
Reasonably quick.
Low depreciation would be nice too - don't want much!!
I would prefer RWD, but will consider FWD, 4WD is probably out."
The E36 seems to offer the best value for money. I realise it will be a bit heavy on tyres, brakes etc, which I didn't want but the lighter weight cars don't give any comfort or luggage space or cost too much!
So I don't want to strip it out etc etc, the Impreza was built with roadgoing hillclimbing in mind so don't want to go that far.
As this was my criteria from the other post:
"Must be good for road use to allow driving to track and touring, need a/c!
Therefore needs some luggage space.
Good on track to develop driver skill.
Not too expensive to run (Fuel, Insurance, Tyres, Servicing etc)
Reasonably quick.
Low depreciation would be nice too - don't want much!!
I would prefer RWD, but will consider FWD, 4WD is probably out."
The E36 seems to offer the best value for money. I realise it will be a bit heavy on tyres, brakes etc, which I didn't want but the lighter weight cars don't give any comfort or luggage space or cost too much!
M7RT V said:
The perfect base for a track car, all it needs is some uprated brakes
http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/430328.htm
That chap is a member on the e36coupe.com forums. Car looks like a good un, although the mileage is a little high. I should think a deal could be had for the lower end of £6k.http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/430328.htm
Edited by M7RT V on Tuesday 1st April 21:45
dan101smith said:
I've gone for an E36 Evo with Intrax coilovers, adjustable ARB and top mounts, and will shortly be fitting either new OEM discs with Pagid pads (plus braided hoses and 5.1 fluid) or a BBK (AP or Mo'vit), and that should see me good for the track. As per a different thread, I'm toying with a set of slicks on some spare alloys, but otherwise ready to go.
Ought to make a decent track tool, although as ASBO says, I'm expecting to eat through tyres, and to some extent pads. And obviously fuel. A LOT of fuel.
New aquisition Dan? Any pics?Ought to make a decent track tool, although as ASBO says, I'm expecting to eat through tyres, and to some extent pads. And obviously fuel. A LOT of fuel.
Sounds like a good set-up, I've got a near identicle spec save for the Intrax coilovers. What are they like incidently?
Not sure you really need to go down the BBK route unless the car is primarily for the track. The Pagids are supposed to be awesome (set of four currently on order) and the OE discs will take a huge amount of abuse before they wilt. Mine are still original and they've done at least 4 trackdays and 38k miles. Add braided hoses and you've got a brilliant set up for comparitively little outlay.
I've just ordered a set of Toyo R888's which I intend to use for the summer as well as a few trackdays as I don't have the space to keep a spare set of wheels.
wadsy said:
It needs to be a road car then a track car. As you yourself put it so well in replying to another thread of mine "a capable track car with GT bent" seems to sum up my requirement I think.
So I don't want to strip it out etc etc, the Impreza was built with roadgoing hillclimbing in mind so don't want to go that far.
As this was my criteria from the other post:
"Must be good for road use to allow driving to track and touring, need a/c!
Therefore needs some luggage space.
Good on track to develop driver skill.
Not too expensive to run (Fuel, Insurance, Tyres, Servicing etc)
Reasonably quick.
Low depreciation would be nice too - don't want much!!
I would prefer RWD, but will consider FWD, 4WD is probably out."
The E36 seems to offer the best value for money. I realise it will be a bit heavy on tyres, brakes etc, which I didn't want but the lighter weight cars don't give any comfort or luggage space or cost too much!
Jesus I'm on some sort of poast-a-thon here!So I don't want to strip it out etc etc, the Impreza was built with roadgoing hillclimbing in mind so don't want to go that far.
As this was my criteria from the other post:
"Must be good for road use to allow driving to track and touring, need a/c!
Therefore needs some luggage space.
Good on track to develop driver skill.
Not too expensive to run (Fuel, Insurance, Tyres, Servicing etc)
Reasonably quick.
Low depreciation would be nice too - don't want much!!
I would prefer RWD, but will consider FWD, 4WD is probably out."
The E36 seems to offer the best value for money. I realise it will be a bit heavy on tyres, brakes etc, which I didn't want but the lighter weight cars don't give any comfort or luggage space or cost too much!
Wadsy, Suspension is the most important aspect of track work, so I should concentrate on that area primarily and use any cash left for some decent pads and braided hoses. Sticky tyres will make you quicker but wont necessarly allow you to have any more fun.
The above M3 also looks like a good bet as it's had all the work done already.
E36 all the way if that's the options, decent enough ones can be had for 5k, intrax shocks are superb, wouldn't look anywhere else, cheaper won't work on track very well and they can be had for 2k, forget the engine, but do the brakes if possible and you should have a decent car, 3-4 trackdays / year is not alot of days, so do you really need an E36 M3, why not look at an E30 325
taffyracer said:
E36 all the way if that's the options, decent enough ones can be had for 5k, intrax shocks are superb, wouldn't look anywhere else, cheaper won't work on track very well and they can be had for 2k, forget the engine, but do the brakes if possible and you should have a decent car, 3-4 trackdays / year is not alot of days, so do you really need an E36 M3, why not look at an E30 325
I want it to be a decent road car too (see above) so e30 a bit too old - any other options that meet my criteria?Cheers
ASBO said:
dan101smith said:
I've gone for an E36 Evo with Intrax coilovers, adjustable ARB and top mounts, and will shortly be fitting either new OEM discs with Pagid pads (plus braided hoses and 5.1 fluid) or a BBK (AP or Mo'vit), and that should see me good for the track. As per a different thread, I'm toying with a set of slicks on some spare alloys, but otherwise ready to go.
Ought to make a decent track tool, although as ASBO says, I'm expecting to eat through tyres, and to some extent pads. And obviously fuel. A LOT of fuel.
New aquisition Dan? Any pics?Ought to make a decent track tool, although as ASBO says, I'm expecting to eat through tyres, and to some extent pads. And obviously fuel. A LOT of fuel.
Sounds like a good set-up, I've got a near identicle spec save for the Intrax coilovers. What are they like incidently?
Not sure you really need to go down the BBK route unless the car is primarily for the track. The Pagids are supposed to be awesome (set of four currently on order) and the OE discs will take a huge amount of abuse before they wilt. Mine are still original and they've done at least 4 trackdays and 38k miles. Add braided hoses and you've got a brilliant set up for comparitively little outlay.
I've just ordered a set of Toyo R888's which I intend to use for the summer as well as a few trackdays as I don't have the space to keep a spare set of wheels.
Impressed with the Intrax kit - stiff, but not jarring. I probably need to wind the height up a bit, as it tends to struggle with London speed bumps, but I'm really looking forward to tracking it next month. Add on the strut and chassis braces, plus the adjustable ARBs and I'm pretty confident of getting it set up perfectly.
On the brakes, I know I don't need a BBK, but even so... But I am going to start with new OE discs and RS29s and see how I get on - that was the setup I had on my 328i and it was awesome round Bedford, but the extra weight of the M3 *might* require a bit more stopping power...we'll see how we go.
I've got Toyo T1-Rs on mine currently. They grip well enough, but seem incredibly soft. I doubt they'll last more than 5-6k miles. Most likely I'll replace them with PS2s when they go, and then have a set of slicks for track use - I'm considering keeping the BBS Sport alloys from my 328i as they're staggered as per M3, so a straight swap with wider rears. Plus the slicks are on Ebay for £120 per set, so as long as the weather holds it's much cheaper to wear those out!
^^ what was your opinion of the 328i as a track car compared to the M3?? despite the obvious lack of power - more handling/brakes etc
I have driven my GF's one around the track a bit and it seemed ok...I could prob get it from her quite cheap as the prices of these in NZ has really bottomed out. I like my e30 but almost wouldnt mind something newer
I have driven my GF's one around the track a bit and it seemed ok...I could prob get it from her quite cheap as the prices of these in NZ has really bottomed out. I like my e30 but almost wouldnt mind something newer
Well, I've not tracked the M3 yet, but the 328i was...competent. All I actually did in prep were the brakes - new discs front/rear, new front callipers, new fluid and Pagid RS29s up front.
It was on standard (and a little worn) suspension so it rolled a bit, but the rubber was fresh so plenty of grip. Definitely worth considering as a track car. It also averaged 13mpg over 100miles of track driving, which I can't see the M3 doing!
The 328i is also more easily modd-able, with induction kit/bbtb/inlet manifold etc, so you could get it up to 210-215bhp without too much effort.
It was on standard (and a little worn) suspension so it rolled a bit, but the rubber was fresh so plenty of grip. Definitely worth considering as a track car. It also averaged 13mpg over 100miles of track driving, which I can't see the M3 doing!
The 328i is also more easily modd-able, with induction kit/bbtb/inlet manifold etc, so you could get it up to 210-215bhp without too much effort.
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