E46 M3 CSL or Z4M Coupe
Discussion
Currently got c.£28k burning a whole in my pocket for a new motor. Car will be my daily driver doing about 20k miles per year, but will also be used for 3 or 4 track days and a couple of trips to the 'ring per year.
At the moment I can't make my mind up between a 1 year old 10k mile Z4M Coupe, or a 30k mile 4 year old E46 M3 CSL.
I don't have to have the practicality of the CSL, and i'm not a great fan of the M3 image, and also will it be as reliable as the Z4M, however emotionally the CSL is the one that seems to be calling me.
Anyone like to try and help me out?
At the moment I can't make my mind up between a 1 year old 10k mile Z4M Coupe, or a 30k mile 4 year old E46 M3 CSL.
I don't have to have the practicality of the CSL, and i'm not a great fan of the M3 image, and also will it be as reliable as the Z4M, however emotionally the CSL is the one that seems to be calling me.
Anyone like to try and help me out?
you'll be lucky to get a CSL for that price...
i was also in the same position (slightly higher budget) really wanted the CSL and i'm sure it would of made a better financial long term buy, however they are all out of the original manufactures warranty and like you i'm doing over 20k a year so piece of mind was a big factor and lets face it i bet most CSLs hae been used as they were intended. Price yourself up a new gearbox, engine and front bumper and you'll get the idea
I managed to find a 2000 mile 3 month old Z4M Coupe for the same price as the cheapest i.e 40,000 mile CSL forsale at the time....
however i'm under no illusions, IMO the CSL is a better car, i know a few guys with them and they are awesome! plus as mentioned they wil deffo be a future classic and always command a premium LOL i just wish i could afford both!
i was also in the same position (slightly higher budget) really wanted the CSL and i'm sure it would of made a better financial long term buy, however they are all out of the original manufactures warranty and like you i'm doing over 20k a year so piece of mind was a big factor and lets face it i bet most CSLs hae been used as they were intended. Price yourself up a new gearbox, engine and front bumper and you'll get the idea
I managed to find a 2000 mile 3 month old Z4M Coupe for the same price as the cheapest i.e 40,000 mile CSL forsale at the time....however i'm under no illusions, IMO the CSL is a better car, i know a few guys with them and they are awesome! plus as mentioned they wil deffo be a future classic and always command a premium LOL i just wish i could afford both!
They are such different cars that I don't think you can really compare them.
Difficult choice, I'd have both if I had the cash/space.
Regarding that 28.5k CSL you linked to - get yourself over to MTorque - http://www.mtorque.co.uk - and ask about that car. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with it but there's been a couple that have been floating around for a while that are cheap or aren't selling for good reasons. Ask/search on MTorque as the previous owner or someone who knows the car is likely to be a member.
Difficult choice, I'd have both if I had the cash/space.
Regarding that 28.5k CSL you linked to - get yourself over to MTorque - http://www.mtorque.co.uk - and ask about that car. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with it but there's been a couple that have been floating around for a while that are cheap or aren't selling for good reasons. Ask/search on MTorque as the previous owner or someone who knows the car is likely to be a member.
steve z said:
Nano2nd said:
you'll be lucky to get a CSL for that price...
http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/319989.htm though its the cheapest one forsale in the country and its at a dealer.. that says alot about the condition to me... as The Dude said its cheap for a reason, the general consensus on mtorque is the good ones that are priced right sell within hours!this is the one i'd be looking at.. though i find it interesting that you'd fit AP's and a strut brace if you didn't take it on the track
http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/354964.htm
Nano2nd said:
you'll be lucky to get a CSL for that price...
i was also in the same position (slightly higher budget) really wanted the CSL and i'm sure it would of made a better financial long term buy, however they are all out of the original manufactures warranty and like you i'm doing over 20k a year so piece of mind was a big factor and lets face it i bet most CSLs hae been used as they were intended. Price yourself up a new gearbox, engine and front bumper and you'll get the idea I managed to find a 2000 mile 3 month old Z4M Coupe for the same price as the cheapest i.e 40,000 mile CSL forsale at the time....
however i'm under no illusions, IMO the CSL is a better car, i know a few guys with them and they are awesome! plus as mentioned they wil deffo be a future classic and always command a premium LOL i just wish i could afford both!
There are still a fair few CSLs about with the extended BMW warranty in place. That warranty covers you for all mechanical issues and therefore gives very similar cover and peace of mind as the original manufacturer's warranty. However you likely won't find one for the budget of £28k. Any CSL in that price bracket either has huge mileage, lacks A/C, has no warranty and/or has issues or adverse history. You get what you pay for in the end and the good cars fetch good money and sell quickly if priced right.i was also in the same position (slightly higher budget) really wanted the CSL and i'm sure it would of made a better financial long term buy, however they are all out of the original manufactures warranty and like you i'm doing over 20k a year so piece of mind was a big factor and lets face it i bet most CSLs hae been used as they were intended. Price yourself up a new gearbox, engine and front bumper and you'll get the idea
I managed to find a 2000 mile 3 month old Z4M Coupe for the same price as the cheapest i.e 40,000 mile CSL forsale at the time....however i'm under no illusions, IMO the CSL is a better car, i know a few guys with them and they are awesome! plus as mentioned they wil deffo be a future classic and always command a premium LOL i just wish i could afford both!
Thanks for the advice guys. As much as I would love to get into a CSL it sounds like you need to be spending more like c.£32k than c.£28k and that's outside my budget.
Looks like I need to focus my attentions on the Z4M Coupe then, which lets face it is still a fantastic motor, just not a motoring icon!
Looks like I need to focus my attentions on the Z4M Coupe then, which lets face it is still a fantastic motor, just not a motoring icon!
I had the same dilema but when i went to see the few csl's that are priced under 30k i found the dealers would rip them to death without letting them warm up, no warranty and just looking a bit tired. Then i went to see a few Z4MC's and was instantly taken by it. The lower seating position, the absolutely coolest looks ( different tastes i know but was well glad when i pulled up next to a csl the other day. I feel the Z4MC is just more exotic ).
The other great thing was the cars had less than 8,000 miles and all the toys i could ever need.
The csl is THE better car, i have no doubt, but knowing how i would drive one for the 30,000 miles or more as the examples for sale have been, i was more than a bit put off.
Love the Z and wouldn't change it now. Plus already lost loads in value so the residuals for people buying now should be very good.
Lots of good examples of Z4MC's to pick from at under 30k bargain hard and stay away from dodgy colour combo's.
Good Luck. which ever way you choose life will be grand.
The other great thing was the cars had less than 8,000 miles and all the toys i could ever need.
The csl is THE better car, i have no doubt, but knowing how i would drive one for the 30,000 miles or more as the examples for sale have been, i was more than a bit put off.
Love the Z and wouldn't change it now. Plus already lost loads in value so the residuals for people buying now should be very good.
Lots of good examples of Z4MC's to pick from at under 30k bargain hard and stay away from dodgy colour combo's.
Good Luck. which ever way you choose life will be grand.
I’d take the Z4M coupe over the CSL, sure the CSL is great on the track, but it’s to firm for the road a lot of the time and steering is inferior.
The CSL feels like a car from a previous generation compared to the Z4M coupe. The noise from the plastic boot lid and suspension means it produces more rattles over the bumps and doesn’t feel as solid as the newer stuff.
The CSL feels like a car from a previous generation compared to the Z4M coupe. The noise from the plastic boot lid and suspension means it produces more rattles over the bumps and doesn’t feel as solid as the newer stuff.
Bumcrack said:
I’d take the Z4M coupe over the CSL, sure the CSL is great on the track, but it’s to firm for the road a lot of the time and steering is inferior.
The CSL feels like a car from a previous generation compared to the Z4M coupe. The noise from the plastic boot lid and suspension means it produces more rattles over the bumps and doesn’t feel as solid as the newer stuff.
Mmmm... well I had both, and I loved my Z4M Coupe but it was no CSL. The Z4M has the more refined evolution of the S54 engine and feels not that far short of the CSL in terms of performance, but I would not use either as an ideal every day car. I tried with both and that's not what they were best suited to. The CSL feels like a car from a previous generation compared to the Z4M coupe. The noise from the plastic boot lid and suspension means it produces more rattles over the bumps and doesn’t feel as solid as the newer stuff.
The CSL was no more firm than the Z4MC, but likewise isn't as restful to drive as the more mainstream Z. The Z4MC has better steering feel (despite them both having the same rack), it has more lower down torque and therefore is more driveable in daily use. Also the Z4MC's engine is smoother with less tappety noise, but lacks the CSL's orchestra of intake noise.
I've kept my CSL for 4.5 years and managed 18 months in my Z4MC, but its the CSL that was the more irreplaceable.
Best to drive them both and see which one best suits you, but make sure you make the few essential improvement to the Z4MC that improve it as an all-round drive.
Z4M comes with crap tyres, responsible for some of the poor press about car understeering imo. Recommended to upgrade them to a decent road tyre like Michelin Pilot Sport 2's or Goodyear Eagle F1 Assimetric's.
Strut brace on the front may sharpen up handling a little. About £200 from memory.
There's something called a CDV (clutch delay valve) which slightly delays the engagement of the clutch to protect transmission. This is the cause of gear changes in 1st and 2nd sometimes being less than smooth. £20 quid and 30 mins to replace and apparently leads to big improvement in driveability. May affect warranty though.
There's other stuff that people are doing like sportier exhausts, different springs, different intakes, CSL alloys look good on the car, world's your oyster. I haven't done any of above yet but am still enjoying the car. Will be changing the tyres soon though.
Strut brace on the front may sharpen up handling a little. About £200 from memory.
There's something called a CDV (clutch delay valve) which slightly delays the engagement of the clutch to protect transmission. This is the cause of gear changes in 1st and 2nd sometimes being less than smooth. £20 quid and 30 mins to replace and apparently leads to big improvement in driveability. May affect warranty though.
There's other stuff that people are doing like sportier exhausts, different springs, different intakes, CSL alloys look good on the car, world's your oyster. I haven't done any of above yet but am still enjoying the car. Will be changing the tyres soon though.
Tyres are a notable change, but the strut brace is probably more so. Basically the front and rear ends of the car flex out of sync, the rear being very stiff whilst the front is less so. By stiffening the front you notice a more homogenous feel to the chassis whilst pushing on, the steering response is also more linear.
One thing that may or may not be important to the OP, is that the CSL is a 9/10ths car able to be driven within an inch of its abilities (on track) and feel like it was designed to do so. The Z4MC whilst better in this respect than an E46 M3, feels a step or two less suited to the task, which is fine since it is more of a road car than the CSL.
I bought them both and ran them side-by-side for 18 months half expecting the Z4MC to make my CSL feel old, but that's not how it played out in practice. Both are unique cars though and worth a serious look at.
One thing that may or may not be important to the OP, is that the CSL is a 9/10ths car able to be driven within an inch of its abilities (on track) and feel like it was designed to do so. The Z4MC whilst better in this respect than an E46 M3, feels a step or two less suited to the task, which is fine since it is more of a road car than the CSL.
I bought them both and ran them side-by-side for 18 months half expecting the Z4MC to make my CSL feel old, but that's not how it played out in practice. Both are unique cars though and worth a serious look at.
Edited by DoctorD on Thursday 7th February 13:21
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