I solved my E36 M3 Idling problem!!!

[joesnow]

My car has an intermittently high idle speed. This started after fitting a 'DaveF' K&N induction kit. When the car was at high idle - usually around 1500rpm, a quick jab on the throttle took the revs back down to normal tickover. This was really grating in traffic, and as well as taking the edge of M3 ownership, you looked like a bit of a dick as everyone thought you wanted to race at traffic lights, trying to force your way through traffic etc....

After doing some reading up on the E36 forum, most high idle problems are due to leaks in the induction side or gummed up air flow meters or idle valves. After dismantling the whole induction system and carefully refitting it to no avail, I was wanting to take these two parts off and clean them, but haven't had time.

Yesterday I was in traffic and tickover was up at 25000rpm!!!

I pulled up irritated after a fair bit of foot to the floor blipping which didn't solve the problem. Bonnet up I thought "What can I do to sort this." I grabbed the throttle linkage and pushed it closed to find that this sorted it. The spring on the linkage is all gummed up with grease, and is basically not free rotating. I had a nice relaxing drive back with a rock solid idle at around 750rpm.

I can't believe I overlooked this most simple of things. The BMW specialist also overlooked this after I reported to problem. Come Saturday I'll be taking it to bits, cleaning and refitting it.

[ASBO]

joesnow said:

My car has an intermittently high idle speed. This started after fitting a 'DaveF' K&N induction kit. When the car was at high idle - usually around 1500rpm, a quick jab on the throttle took the revs back down to normal tickover. This was really grating in traffic, and as well as taking the edge of M3 ownership, you looked like a bit of a dick as everyone thought you wanted to race at traffic lights, trying to force your way through traffic etc....

After doing some reading up on the E36 forum, most high idle problems are due to leaks in the induction side or gummed up air flow meters or idle valves. After dismantling the whole induction system and carefully refitting it to no avail, I was wanting to take these two parts off and clean them, but haven't had time.

Yesterday I was in traffic and tickover was up at 25000rpm!!!

I pulled up irritated after a fair bit of foot to the floor blipping which didn't solve the problem. Bonnet up I thought "What can I do to sort this." I grabbed the throttle linkage and pushed it closed to find that this sorted it. The spring on the linkage is all gummed up with grease, and is basically not free rotating. I had a nice relaxing drive back with a rock solid idle at around 750rpm.

I can't believe I overlooked this most simple of things. The BMW specialist also overlooked this after I reported to problem. Come Saturday I'll be taking it to bits, cleaning and refitting it.

Good job it wasn't the ECU then.

Unfortunately my high idle was and it cost £2,000 to sort

[joesnow]

Yep, I'm certainly glad it wasn't the ECU! Your car is worth the effort though, hows the 5?

New brakes will be fitted next week, BM disks and Yellow Stuff pads, and then I'm off to the nearest track day!

[ASBO]

joesnow said:

Yep, I'm certainly glad it wasn't the ECU! Your car is worth the effort though, hows the 5?

New brakes will be fitted next week, BM disks and Yellow Stuff pads, and then I'm off to the nearest track day!

Well I hope so. I still love it more than the O/H so yes I guess it was.

The '5 aint too bad. Now realised though that a standing order with my mechanic will be necessity...

Do report on your track experience. Tenner says you'll be after some coilees next...

[joesnow]

Yep, the rear is rather strange, it crashes over ridges in the road, yet wallows a bit in a perculiar Oliver Reed style. The sus isn't firm in the way my Integra was, however has poor quality ride. A slightly soggy rear tyre has made this more prevelant, but at proper pressure it isn't all it could be i'm pretty sure. Mechanic said bushes are fine, so must be down to worn dampers.

This characteristic added with the idling thing prompted me to test drive a DC5 Integra and Mini Cooper S yesterday. The Integra was everything dynamically that my M3 is not, with far lower and obtainable limits. Shame it's not proper wheel drive, which is difficult to find in the same budget with quality and practicality without going for a cheaper built Jap, hence the M3 ticks all my boxes apart from that dancing on the limit feeling which, in the M3, can only be explored on the track.

So, coilovers would probably sort the ride and handling, but I don't want to throw a lot of money at the car if I may sell up. I'll have to evaluate after a track excursion.

[RichBurley]

joesnow said:

take these two parts off and clean them, but haven't had time.

Yesterday I was in traffic and tickover was up at 25000rpm!!!

Wow, that's high!!!! Glad you sorted it, though.

Edited by RichBurley on Thursday 31st January 11:21

[ASBO]

joesnow said:

Yep, the rear is rather strange, it crashes over ridges in the road, yet wallows a bit in a perculiar Oliver Reed style. The sus isn't firm in the way my Integra was, however has poor quality ride. A slightly soggy rear tyre has made this more prevelant, but at proper pressure it isn't all it could be i'm pretty sure. Mechanic said bushes are fine, so must be down to worn dampers.

This characteristic added with the idling thing prompted me to test drive a DC5 Integra and Mini Cooper S yesterday. The Integra was everything dynamically that my M3 is not, with far lower and obtainable limits. Shame it's not proper wheel drive, which is difficult to find in the same budget with quality and practicality without going for a cheaper built Jap, hence the M3 ticks all my boxes apart from that dancing on the limit feeling which, in the M3, can only be explored on the track.

So, coilovers would probably sort the ride and handling, but I don't want to throw a lot of money at the car if I may sell up. I'll have to evaluate after a track excursion.

At present, your rear suspension issues will only be (massively) excaerbated on the track.

Has your mechanic checked and double checked the trailing arm bushes?

These only last a couple of years before they need replacing and are hard to spot if worn (just had mine done). Another thing to look ut for is your rear top-mounts. If you are getting a 'crashing' over bumps then I'd suggest this be your first port of call. Along with the brakes on these things, the rear top mounts should never have been signed off.

If your dampers are worn (I'd expect them to last ~80k) Then I don't reccomend you go near a track as you'll hate it. I have Bilstein sport dampers and Eibachs on mine and even they aren't really suitable for track work.

Invest some cash in sorting the suspension and you'll finally realise what all the fuss is about.

I've driven both the DC5 and the new Cooper S and as far as I'm concerned neither car comes within a mile of the car the M3 is - even one with tired dampers.

The biggest problem with the E36 is that it's too soft for its own good. A good set of coilover will give you the imediacy of the 'teg with a good dollop more grunt and correct wheel drive. I promise you.

I'm having coilovers fitted to mine soon. I'll report back with my findings.

[joesnow]

Good stuff.

I was seriously contemplating a swop, but I'll persevere with the top mounts and bushes along with the brakes, cheers for your feedabck.

I'd be interested to hear about your findings on the coilovers.

[dan101smith]

Rear top mounts - when you say "crashing", can you compare it to something for me? When I go over bumps it sounds like there's something loose in the boot (there isn't, incidentally!), is this the same sort of thing?

[joesnow]

Dan, it's more like really firm suspension rather than a rattle. The car will roll on it's suspension, which is comparably soft, but when a ridge or sunken manhole cover is hit it audibly bangs through the rear wheels. After the bang comes a little shimmy side to side.

[ASBO]

joesnow said:

Dan, it's more like really firm suspension rather than a rattle. The car will roll on it's suspension, which is comparably soft, but when a ridge or sunken manhole cover is hit it audibly bangs through the rear wheels. After the bang comes a little shimmy side to side.

Which it most definately shouldn't do. No wonder you're , I would be too if my '3 drove like a pudding. Who is your mechanic, is he //M trained?

Sounds like you need to get it to someone who really knows what he's talking about (not that I'm making any accusations). Perhaps an hour's labour at the likes of Munich Legends is worth a punt?

[joesnow]

Got a price on bilstein Pss9 coilovers, eibach ARB's, CSL rear top mounts and poly bushes back and front- around 1700 supplied. A good chunk of wonga, but should transform my lard arse Bavarian giggle maker into some kind of taught, peachy posterior.

[ASBO]

joesnow said:

Got a price on bilstein Pss9 coilovers, eibach ARB's, CSL rear top mounts and poly bushes back and front- around 1700 supplied. A good chunk of wonga, but should transform my lard arse Bavarian giggle maker into some kind of taught, peachy posterior.

Where from?

I need to get hold of the top mounts and Poly's fairly soon for my 'Ring trip in May. Would also like to get hold of a decat to 'compliment' the already loud Scorpion

Have you looked into the front adjustable top mounts from Eibach? They are expensive (IIRC £200) but give you camber and castor adjustment.

Next on the list is a set of BBS LM wheels but God only knows where I'd get a set of them from.

Oh, and some AP racing 6 pots and som...

[joesnow]

I may add the top mounts at a later date, I did look though...

I contacted Ben Sweetman at Chromeline ([e-mail]) seems to iknow his stuff and is a regular on E36coupe.com. Drop him a line, sure he can help you out.

I'm bloody excited about getting this stuff on, just need to place the order now.

Edited by joesnow on Wednesday 6th February 09:51

[ASBO]

joesnow said:

I may add the top mounts at a later date, I did look though...

I contacted Ben Sweetman at Chromeline ([e-mail]) seems to iknow his stuff and is a regular on E36coupe.com. Drop him a line, sure he can help you out.

I'm bloody excited about getting this stuff on, just need to place the order now.

Edited by joesnow on Wednesday 6th February 09:51

Like I said, the difference will be amazing. I've dealt with Ben a few times and never had a problem so will probably use him for the rest.

The PSS9's are fantastic too (so I'm told). Glad to hear you're going for it. Dark thoughts can always cloud one's vision (my M5 gives me so much grief you wouldn't believe), but once the car is all set up and cornering like a scalded moggy, it'll all be worth it. My plan is to turn the M3 into a proper trackable car and weekend road warrior so as to create a big enough void between the two to justify having the M5 as more of a 'cruiser' (and daily work steed).

Do keep me up to date with your progress though

[joesnow]

A very nice position to be in.

Theres a chap that I know up near Ayr who has a Dc2 Integra with no interior, crazy cams, throttle bodies and lots of inner engine work. He has owned the car from new and it is now putting out around 220bph from a N/a vtec 1800cc. It's a very focussed car now, looks a bit rough but goes like crazy.

He also has a E34 M5 with the Nurb setup, and absolutely loves both, however I think a focussed E36 and Bahnstorming E34 is even better...