E36 M3 EVO SMG
Discussion
Hi all,
I need some help/advice if possible! I've recently (Friday) privately sold my E36 M3 EVO Convertible SMG.
I sold the car in good faith and on the understanding that everything was A OK with it. There was a noise from the engine upon start up but after a quick blip of the throttle the noise dissappeared. I was advised that it was caused by oil failing to be pumped round at lower revs and advised the buyer of this.
The buyer took the car, sold as seen with no warranty given or implied. He drove it away, everything working fine, and continued on his 3 or 4 hour drive home.
I'm now getting calls saying the Vanos unit needs replacing, the gearbox needs replacing and the cam is badly worn. I've never had any problems with the car, its always driven well and if I had the slightest doubt in the car I would have had it rectified before putting it up for sale.
Anyway, the car is now in a BMW garage and I'm expecting a call with a quote to the tune of around £5000. Trading standards have told me I should go to court because I'd win and wouldn't have to pay a penny and that my original offer of £250 was more than reasonable. The buyer didn't take the car for a test drive, nor did he have an RAC/AA check carried out. Whilst I could take the hardline approach and tell the guy its sold as seen, buyer beware etc, I do feel bad that he's experiencing these problems and I want to do the right thing. So far I've offered £1000 towards the cost of repairs but this will be reviewed upon receipt of the BMW quote.
What would you folks do? What is a reasonable amount for me to offer in full and final settlement, on a non prejudicial and no admissions basis considering I've actually done nothing wrong!
Thanks in advance!
I need some help/advice if possible! I've recently (Friday) privately sold my E36 M3 EVO Convertible SMG.
I sold the car in good faith and on the understanding that everything was A OK with it. There was a noise from the engine upon start up but after a quick blip of the throttle the noise dissappeared. I was advised that it was caused by oil failing to be pumped round at lower revs and advised the buyer of this.
The buyer took the car, sold as seen with no warranty given or implied. He drove it away, everything working fine, and continued on his 3 or 4 hour drive home.
I'm now getting calls saying the Vanos unit needs replacing, the gearbox needs replacing and the cam is badly worn. I've never had any problems with the car, its always driven well and if I had the slightest doubt in the car I would have had it rectified before putting it up for sale.
Anyway, the car is now in a BMW garage and I'm expecting a call with a quote to the tune of around £5000. Trading standards have told me I should go to court because I'd win and wouldn't have to pay a penny and that my original offer of £250 was more than reasonable. The buyer didn't take the car for a test drive, nor did he have an RAC/AA check carried out. Whilst I could take the hardline approach and tell the guy its sold as seen, buyer beware etc, I do feel bad that he's experiencing these problems and I want to do the right thing. So far I've offered £1000 towards the cost of repairs but this will be reviewed upon receipt of the BMW quote.
What would you folks do? What is a reasonable amount for me to offer in full and final settlement, on a non prejudicial and no admissions basis considering I've actually done nothing wrong!
Thanks in advance!
Unless your a trader there is no legal reason why you should offer to do anything.
At the end of the day you sold the car in good faith believing nothing was wrong.
Once it's out of your sight you've got no idea what could have happened to it.
Buying privately it's always buyer beware, the onus is on them to check the car out to their satisfaction.
At the end of the day you sold the car in good faith believing nothing was wrong.
Once it's out of your sight you've got no idea what could have happened to it.
Buying privately it's always buyer beware, the onus is on them to check the car out to their satisfaction.
Agree with the above. Buyer has no comeback. It is up to them to fully inspect (or get the car inspected) prior to purchase. If you knew the vanos was dodgy you were under no obligation to declare that unless directly asked the question by the buyer "do you know if there are any problems with the vanos?" But even if you had still kept quiet at that time the buyer would have a hard time proving that you knew unless there was a record at a dealership for example.
Buying M power cars should not be marched into like buying a corsa. If you don't do your research and know what you are looking for then that's tough shit. I walked away from several nice looking examples before settling on mine.
DON'T PAY. IT IS NOT YOUR PROBLEM - especially if he didn't even test drive.
Buying M power cars should not be marched into like buying a corsa. If you don't do your research and know what you are looking for then that's tough shit. I walked away from several nice looking examples before settling on mine.
DON'T PAY. IT IS NOT YOUR PROBLEM - especially if he didn't even test drive.
Edited by E36GUY on Wednesday 16th January 10:28
mate, couldnt agree more. Buying privately means he has no leg to stand on whatsoever, your offer of £250 was more than generous and if you are feeling guilty then offer him this as your maximum figure as a gesture of goodwill.
Its ok feeling sorry for him - but i honestly think he is having you over here mate.
Its ok feeling sorry for him - but i honestly think he is having you over here mate.
I once sold a Cav SRi to a 'Mechanic' on New years day a long time ago. The day after his GF called in tears saying the car was broken and they wanted their money back. I declined as how did I know what they had done to the car and I think you should follow the same route.
I cannot see how a Vanos can just go, they don't (or rarely from my understanding) just fail. They get noisier over a period of time and even when they are noisy they don't effect performance unless really knackered. The fact that he took it to a BMW garage says it all really as they have always just replaced vano if they are noisy. Its akin to the 'Your disc and pads are worn mate' where it's a easy couple of grand for bugger all.
As for the SMG, they are perhaps more prone to failure but I suggest the buyer may be trying it on and perhaps is regretting rushing into this. The M3 Evo is a specialist car, SMG even moreso and I can't see someone buying it unless they really wanted one specifically.
£250 is more than enough, 1k just silly. Ethically you may feel you are obliged and this is for you to decide. However, bearing in mind the buyer will get the BMW quote and probably take it somewhere cheaper I would be wary.
Legally he can do what he wants and perhaps be prepared for the 'I know where you live' stuff but my reply would be 'Are the police still on 999'?
If you do decide to pay towards this then insist onnot only seeing the quote, but also drive the car and get a second opinion from a garage who know what they are doing, not just a replace everything outfit like a main dealer.
I cannot see how a Vanos can just go, they don't (or rarely from my understanding) just fail. They get noisier over a period of time and even when they are noisy they don't effect performance unless really knackered. The fact that he took it to a BMW garage says it all really as they have always just replaced vano if they are noisy. Its akin to the 'Your disc and pads are worn mate' where it's a easy couple of grand for bugger all.
As for the SMG, they are perhaps more prone to failure but I suggest the buyer may be trying it on and perhaps is regretting rushing into this. The M3 Evo is a specialist car, SMG even moreso and I can't see someone buying it unless they really wanted one specifically.
£250 is more than enough, 1k just silly. Ethically you may feel you are obliged and this is for you to decide. However, bearing in mind the buyer will get the BMW quote and probably take it somewhere cheaper I would be wary.
Legally he can do what he wants and perhaps be prepared for the 'I know where you live' stuff but my reply would be 'Are the police still on 999'?
If you do decide to pay towards this then insist onnot only seeing the quote, but also drive the car and get a second opinion from a garage who know what they are doing, not just a replace everything outfit like a main dealer.
E36GUY said:
Personally I would not pay anything. If it went to court that action (rightly or wrongly) may be interpreted as admitting you knew about the faults and were trying to make amends to avoid any legal issues.
I agree with this, if it was a £30k car I'd have more sympathy... but it is an old 2nd hand car with these as known faults...Of cause you have to asses each situation separatelly as I do understand that you feel bad... but if you did not know the faults then you could hardly have been any more open.
If it was me I would give nothing if the guy started getting heavy, but I might give something if the buyer was genuinelly not messing me around...... but it sounds dodgy to me, I mean no research, no inspection and no test drive and then straight down the BMW dealer after purchase for a £5k service??????
Did you issue him a receipt for the cash with "sold as seen" and both your signatures on it? I always do two copies of this when I sell a car.
Who's to say he hasn't completely thrashed it on the way home and killed the box, or something similar?
You sold it in good faith - he didn't bother test driving it or inspecting it, so bottom line is it's not your problem.
If you morally feel you must contribute, £250 would be more than enough, but heed Guy's comments above about it being an admission of liability.
Who's to say he hasn't completely thrashed it on the way home and killed the box, or something similar?
You sold it in good faith - he didn't bother test driving it or inspecting it, so bottom line is it's not your problem.
If you morally feel you must contribute, £250 would be more than enough, but heed Guy's comments above about it being an admission of liability.
Thanks chaps, I really appreciate your thoughts and advice. I would only pay an agreed sum as a goodwill gesture and with no admissions, as I have nothing to admit to! I do genuinely feel bad for the guy though, the car has always been brilliant whilst I've owned it. If I do end up paying a sum of money, I will be paying it to the garage, not to him.
Does anyone know where I could suggest he has the work carried out, within the Bristol area - and their number so I can get a rough quote?
Thanks again!
Does anyone know where I could suggest he has the work carried out, within the Bristol area - and their number so I can get a rough quote?
Thanks again!
I don't agree, legally you don't have to offer him something, but IF this is genuine and BMW can show it was genuinely needed then I would offer to pay for the parts and let him pay for the labour, there are too many people that couldn't give a shit already and rely on caveats of this sort to cheat and rip people off, you're obviously not but sometimes what goes around and all that.
Edited by taffyracer on Wednesday 23 January 19:09
Your offer of £250 is more than generous. You didn't mislead and he made the decision to buy. He could have got an inspection if he'd have been concerned. I take taffy's point about acting generously and empathising with the buyer's situation - but I think you're already doing that. The car is not yours anymore and therefore not your problem. So, sympathise, act politely and give advice. But don't pay for problems that are not yours.
Agree with most on here. Sold my Cerbera to a really nice chap - i'd had it for 3+ years and hardly a fault. It was a great car. However on his drive home from my house the clutch started to slip and/or wouldn't engage gear (I forget). He called me to ask my advice and let me know but hand on heart I had no warning of that happening and so we both knew it was his problem.
TBH i'd be reluctant to give him a penny - it almost implies that you knew there was a problem coming and that somehow you share the blame. You don't - he bought it of his own free will.
I assume also that he got the car for cheaper than he would have been able to, had it been for sale at a dealer? He needs to use the money he's saved to get it fixed; simple.
TBH i'd be reluctant to give him a penny - it almost implies that you knew there was a problem coming and that somehow you share the blame. You don't - he bought it of his own free will.
I assume also that he got the car for cheaper than he would have been able to, had it been for sale at a dealer? He needs to use the money he's saved to get it fixed; simple.
I think you've been more than generous offering £250 to him although if it was me I would feel bad about it too and would probably do the same.
The guy must be a bit crackers though to buy a 8 - 10 year old M3 with not even driving it!! The inspection I can understand as that's not cheap and when I bought mine I decieded not to do it but too keep the money aside for an Inspection 2 service and repair fund - my choice though and my risk.
As it's been said - sold as seen.
The guy must be a bit crackers though to buy a 8 - 10 year old M3 with not even driving it!! The inspection I can understand as that's not cheap and when I bought mine I decieded not to do it but too keep the money aside for an Inspection 2 service and repair fund - my choice though and my risk.
As it's been said - sold as seen.
Edited by Paul_Dids on Thursday 24th January 12:46
Don't pay a penny. Anyone who buys any used car without driving it and having it thoroughly inspected is stupid. Anyone who buys a specialist high-performance car like an M3 without driving it and having it thoroughly inspected is beyond stupid... and how do you know he isn't making it all up or that he hasn't fiddled with the car and damaged it in some way and now wants to pretend that whatever damage he's done was already there?
Gassing Station | M Power | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff