M3 lacking power
Discussion
Just bought a beautifull show condition E36 M3 Evo, and whilst being delighted at the near new condition of a nine year old car, I have to say I am more than a bit surprised in its lack of performance!.It seems to need to be revved very hard to make it "get up and go",and seems to have a very long travel on the throttle pedal.It also seems to be holding the engine revs on after the throttle is closed,and is especially bad when being pushed hard.Has anyone ever come accross this problem before?.Have checked throttle bodies and cable and all seems to be fine.Also is it possible to get more power cost effectively,without stripping and rebuilding the engine?It is mainly the lazy revving of the engine that bothers me.Another M3 owner drove it and he thought it was fine.
RoysRS said:
Just bought a beautifull show condition E36 M3 Evo, and whilst being delighted at the near new condition of a nine year old car, I have to say I am more than a bit surprised in its lack of performance!.It seems to need to be revved very hard to make it "get up and go",and seems to have a very long travel on the throttle pedal.It also seems to be holding the engine revs on after the throttle is closed,and is especially bad when being pushed hard.Has anyone ever come accross this problem before?.Have checked throttle bodies and cable and all seems to be fine.Also is it possible to get more power cost effectively,without stripping and rebuilding the engine?It is mainly the lazy revving of the engine that bothers me.Another M3 owner drove it and he thought it was fine.
I find my wife's Evo convertible similar to drive. It just seems to lack a bit of get up and go. My old Evo saloon was always a real flyer, probably because I regularly used to give it beans. I think with these cars, the ECU remembers how you drive the car and adapts acordingly. I think it's possible to reset these adaptive values.[BMW do this with their diagnostics] I would be interested to know whether this can be done by simply disconnecting the battery and reconnecting it after a few minutes, then driving the car 'like you stole it' as some one on this forum said to me. If any one else has any more info on this I would be interested. It would be interesting to compare the Dyno chart of the same car before and after this is done. My car goes like a missle. Pick up should always be nice and smooth even in high gears at low revs but Evo doesn't really start charging until the naughty side of 5000revs.
Firstly. Check the throttle cable. Evos are notorious for developing slack in the cable. Mine had about 1.5cms slack in it which i didn't notice for ages but blow me did the performance leap when I tightened it! It's a cich to tighten to do that first.
If that does nothing get the vanos system checked out. It's the variable cam timing system and is gear driven. If yours is picking up badly then it 'could' be that. To tell if your system is on the way out it will be noisy. Lift the bonnet and listen by the nearest end of the engine to the front of the car. Get someone to rev the car to 2000 revs and release. If there is distinctive rattling or a brr rr rr rr type sound you may have a problem.
Good luck
Firstly. Check the throttle cable. Evos are notorious for developing slack in the cable. Mine had about 1.5cms slack in it which i didn't notice for ages but blow me did the performance leap when I tightened it! It's a cich to tighten to do that first.
If that does nothing get the vanos system checked out. It's the variable cam timing system and is gear driven. If yours is picking up badly then it 'could' be that. To tell if your system is on the way out it will be noisy. Lift the bonnet and listen by the nearest end of the engine to the front of the car. Get someone to rev the car to 2000 revs and release. If there is distinctive rattling or a brr rr rr rr type sound you may have a problem.
Good luck
fastandcurious said:
RoysRS said:
Just bought a beautifull show condition E36 M3 Evo, and whilst being delighted at the near new condition of a nine year old car, I have to say I am more than a bit surprised in its lack of performance!.It seems to need to be revved very hard to make it "get up and go",and seems to have a very long travel on the throttle pedal.It also seems to be holding the engine revs on after the throttle is closed,and is especially bad when being pushed hard.Has anyone ever come accross this problem before?.Have checked throttle bodies and cable and all seems to be fine.Also is it possible to get more power cost effectively,without stripping and rebuilding the engine?It is mainly the lazy revving of the engine that bothers me.Another M3 owner drove it and he thought it was fine.
I find my wife's Evo convertible similar to drive. It just seems to lack a bit of get up and go. My old Evo saloon was always a real flyer, probably because I regularly used to give it beans. I think with these cars, the ECU remembers how you drive the car and adapts acordingly. I think it's possible to reset these adaptive values.[BMW do this with their diagnostics] I would be interested to know whether this can be done by simply disconnecting the battery and reconnecting it after a few minutes, then driving the car 'like you stole it' as some one on this forum said to me. If any one else has any more info on this I would be interested. It would be interesting to compare the Dyno chart of the same car before and after this is done. Mine seems to run fine, but you do have to rev it quite hard to make it really shift.
While I'm not saying there's nothing wrong with your car, there's a couple of things to note about these older school M cars. Firstly they've got a proper progressive mechanical throttle, so you have to move your foot a long way for the power - this gives you the chance to meter the power out of a corner exactly and was used on the S70 V12 in the McLaren F1 - just check out all those bell cranks and rose jointed linkages!! Brilliant!! But this does make them feel less "responsive" than the daft electronic throttles fitted to cars these days, like the one in my 530i, when 40% of travel gives you 100% throttle opening - WHY??!!
Second, they are not overburdened with torque. If you want a thump in the back buy a Subarishi or chip an Audi S3. I used to love the slow burn climb through a mighty powerband in my 3.8 E34. While TDi hatches etc kept up to begin with, everything just fell away eventually (even an Imprezza) as the speed and revs soared while normal cars ran out of puff. It never bothered me that you need big room to really enjoy the performance over everything else. BMW M managed such linear power deliveries, which is what made them the best engine builders in the world for a couple of decades, that you didn't always realise how fast you were going. But the sheer energy at the top of the rev band put Type-R's in context, and often made me laugh out loud - I really miss it.
That said, check your VANOS etc, you really should never be disappointed by these fabulous engines.
Second, they are not overburdened with torque. If you want a thump in the back buy a Subarishi or chip an Audi S3. I used to love the slow burn climb through a mighty powerband in my 3.8 E34. While TDi hatches etc kept up to begin with, everything just fell away eventually (even an Imprezza) as the speed and revs soared while normal cars ran out of puff. It never bothered me that you need big room to really enjoy the performance over everything else. BMW M managed such linear power deliveries, which is what made them the best engine builders in the world for a couple of decades, that you didn't always realise how fast you were going. But the sheer energy at the top of the rev band put Type-R's in context, and often made me laugh out loud - I really miss it.
That said, check your VANOS etc, you really should never be disappointed by these fabulous engines.
Thanks for all your suggestions.Have checked the throttle linkage I found that there is a second position on the throttle lever that gives a shorter throw on the pedal.This made a huge difference to the feel of the car and makes it feel much more responsive throughout the rev range especially at the start of it.I guess that I am too used to driving more modern cars,with lighter controls and almost instant responses.The good news is that I would like to keep the car now,and am considering a remap and cold air box,to get a little more power.Would consider removing the cat also if this would make a difference.
RoysRS said:
Thanks for all your suggestions.Have checked the throttle linkage I found that there is a second position on the throttle lever that gives a shorter throw on the pedal.This made a huge difference to the feel of the car and makes it feel much more responsive throughout the rev range especially at the start of it.I guess that I am too used to driving more modern cars,with lighter controls and almost instant responses.The good news is that I would like to keep the car now,and am considering a remap and cold air box,to get a little more power.Would consider removing the cat also if this would make a difference.
I'm sure that the short throw bit is what is missing on mine. Sorry. Hers. with my old one, when I nailed it, I could feel the throttle become stiffer just before the second throw of power ie 5000rpm. On this one the pedal doesn't. This all points to the throttle cable being slack. F&CRoysRS said:
a remap and cold air box,to get a little more power.Would consider removing the cat also if this would make a difference.
You'll have to replace the cat for MoT unless you have a sympathetic garage.If it's an induction kit you want, register at www.e36coupe.co.uk/forum (this takes a while to get confirmed as they approve all memberships manually) and contact member DaveF. He makes the best kit for the M3 which is a hand made heatshield (that really does work!) coupled with a large K&N filter and cold air feed that you can plumb in. It is dyno tested to be worth 12-15 BHP on an Evo and really sharpens up the response. I can vouch for that. Not to mention the glorious noise it makes too.
Heres a pic and a vid.
http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=-4450481...
inside car at beginning, 7 mins 42secs for outside shots.
Edited by E36GUY on Wednesday 16th January 00:23
you beat me to it ! I had exactly this problem on one of my e36 evos, and like you say there is another position on that fantastic throttle linkage, i took the slack out of the cable, lubricated it a bit and put it on this shorter throw position and it made a massive difference.
As said before, you MUST rev the nuts out of these engines to fully expoit THE POWER, they do love the rev limiter !!
As said before, you MUST rev the nuts out of these engines to fully expoit THE POWER, they do love the rev limiter !!
I think the second position thing he's talking about is actually the attachment point for the (optional) CRUISE CONTROL - it's not supposed to be used for the throttle cable !
But it is closer to the pivot of the throttle-actuating lever, so would reduce the accelerator pedal travel.
Kind of like having an E46 M3 in hard-wired Sport mode.
I'd make sure you have really adjusted out the slack on the normal position, and tried that for a while, before going for this solution. The long pedal travel can be pretty handy when you are driving a car with no traction/stability control. It'll be a lot more snappy the way you have it set up...
But it is closer to the pivot of the throttle-actuating lever, so would reduce the accelerator pedal travel.
Kind of like having an E46 M3 in hard-wired Sport mode.
I'd make sure you have really adjusted out the slack on the normal position, and tried that for a while, before going for this solution. The long pedal travel can be pretty handy when you are driving a car with no traction/stability control. It'll be a lot more snappy the way you have it set up...
Edited by outnumbered on Wednesday 16th January 10:34
E36GUY said:
Vixpy1 said:
Is that an oiled K&N filter?
Fcuked if I knowEdited by Vixpy1 on Wednesday 16th January 01:07
Much prefer non oiled filters generally.
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