Discussion
I have Falken 451's on my Ci and have used them for 18 months. They have been excellent.
Theyre good in the wet and the dry, break away progressively, seem to wear fairly well and are quiet.
Feedback to the driver is pretty good and turn in response not bad. I've experienced no punctures either.
Overall, they have been excellent value for money.
Reviews seem to imply that the 452's are slightly better than the 451's with similar characteristics. I would think that they'd suit the CSi's character pretty well. Don't expect the ultimate grip or turn in response of the Goodyear F1's though. Theyre a close second though and considerably cheaper than most of the alternatives.
Theyre good in the wet and the dry, break away progressively, seem to wear fairly well and are quiet.
Feedback to the driver is pretty good and turn in response not bad. I've experienced no punctures either.
Overall, they have been excellent value for money.
Reviews seem to imply that the 452's are slightly better than the 451's with similar characteristics. I would think that they'd suit the CSi's character pretty well. Don't expect the ultimate grip or turn in response of the Goodyear F1's though. Theyre a close second though and considerably cheaper than most of the alternatives.
Thanks Michael,
its either the Falken 452 at less than £100 or Pilot Sport at over £200 !!!
(Goodyear don't make the new F1 asymmetrical, which has great reviews, in 'our' size, the Goodyear Supercar VSB, used on Corvettes has amazing reviews but falls off badly in cold temperatures - not for the UK then!)
Did you manage to get that used F1 in the post by the way?
its either the Falken 452 at less than £100 or Pilot Sport at over £200 !!!
(Goodyear don't make the new F1 asymmetrical, which has great reviews, in 'our' size, the Goodyear Supercar VSB, used on Corvettes has amazing reviews but falls off badly in cold temperatures - not for the UK then!)
Did you manage to get that used F1 in the post by the way?
I have pilot sports on the rear of my CSi and I have to say that theyre good - and probably ever so hard wearing - but it is very easy to brake traction and kick the tail out. Tonight, the roads are perhaps a little greasy but totally dry and on a full throttle drag down the bypass 15 minutes ago I broke traction in third! Such a shame about those Goodyears not being available. I wonder about 245/45's and 275/40's ..... they'd fit!
Sent a mail about the tyre!
Sent a mail about the tyre!
, got a nice set of pilot sport 2's on that and they are excellent 
I know everyone will scream and shout about bad practise and all that (probably without giving any logical justification) but I'd put Goodyear F1's on the front and Falkens on the back. You benefit from the superb turn in and sublime feedback from the Goodyears and can let the Falkens do a decent job at keeping the back end in line.
CSi's are set up to understeer way before oversteer anyway so a little additional grip at the front will do no harm. The added feedback will let you know exactly where you are long before anything gives way.
The active steer at the rear of the CSi will more than compensate for any grip imbalance.
CSi's are set up to understeer way before oversteer anyway so a little additional grip at the front will do no harm. The added feedback will let you know exactly where you are long before anything gives way.
The active steer at the rear of the CSi will more than compensate for any grip imbalance.
Job38 said:
Thanks Michael,
its either the Falken 452 at less than £100 or Pilot Sport at over £200 !!!
(Goodyear don't make the new F1 asymmetrical, which has great reviews, in 'our' size, the Goodyear Supercar VSB, used on Corvettes has amazing reviews but falls off badly in cold temperatures - not for the UK then!)
Did you manage to get that used F1 in the post by the way?
Over £200 for a pilot sport? its either the Falken 452 at less than £100 or Pilot Sport at over £200 !!!
(Goodyear don't make the new F1 asymmetrical, which has great reviews, in 'our' size, the Goodyear Supercar VSB, used on Corvettes has amazing reviews but falls off badly in cold temperatures - not for the UK then!)
Did you manage to get that used F1 in the post by the way?
What size? I just got 2xpilot sports 245/40/17 for £280 fitted inc vat.
Job38 said:
Thanks Guys,
on that basis I'm going to give them a go on the rear and keep the F1s no the front.
Two things that I'd like to improve on the car are:
1. Turn-in seems quite vague.
2. Brakes just don't inspire confidence
If that is the case then :on that basis I'm going to give them a go on the rear and keep the F1s no the front.
Two things that I'd like to improve on the car are:
1. Turn-in seems quite vague.
2. Brakes just don't inspire confidence
1. This is probably because the fronts have lost their shoulder and are rounded at the outside edge. (All 850's do this to tyres very quickly). New tyres will immediately feel much sharper but soon lose their bite. I recommend negative camber plates on the front to really improve turn in. It also reduces the edge scrubbing considerably. It really sharpens up the CSi.
2. CSi brakes should be superb. They may require bleeding - not a straightforward procedure on that car. Stainless Steel flexy brake pipes will also give a firmer pedal.
You may also have a weak 'brake bomb' which can give a vague feel to the pedal. To test this, after a run, repeatedly press the brake pedal hard. It should manage 20-30 presses before it goes rock hard (no boost left). If it will only manage much less than this, then a new 'bomb' is required. It is a nitrogen filled sphere in the braking system that provides boost when braking. They fail over time.
I'll mail you!
Job38 said:
Thanks Guys,
on that basis I'm going to give them a go on the rear and keep the F1s no the front.
Two things that I'd like to improve on the car are:
1. Turn-in seems quite vague.
2. Brakes just don't inspire confidence
A big part of the feel is due to the brake system being hydraulically assisted i.e not vacuum assisted.on that basis I'm going to give them a go on the rear and keep the F1s no the front.
Two things that I'd like to improve on the car are:
1. Turn-in seems quite vague.
2. Brakes just don't inspire confidence
Vacuum systems feel "quicker" because once the valve opens the full vacuum force is quickly felt by the diaphragm, resulting in a sudden "boost" force.
Vacuum systems are common to most cars (because they're cheaper), but do their have faults:
- harder to regulate boost
- boost varies with manifold vacuum
- vacuum accumulator is not practical (so assistance is quickly lost
if the engine stalls)
The hydraulic system on the 8 Series is actually superior (and more expensive to produce!)but it does feel different to what most people are used to.
However, it's much more linear in it's application of force.
I've got them on my Z3 M Coupe and so have a fair few others on the Z3MC forum, everyone seems to rate them and a little hunt on the web served up good reviews as well.
I'm sure they just suffer from brand snobbery, I can't fault them but I haven't really pushed it on the road.
A driver training day I went on recently showed them to be predictable, didn't get any wierd behaviour or excessive under/oversteer (well no more oversteer than you'd expect in a Z3M
)
Re: mixing tyres, a guy on the training day with me had a mix of goodyear/pirelli front to back and it was a disaster, due to the different grip levels he was getting loads of understeer follwed by sudden snap oversteer caused by mixing the brands (according to the instructor) he was lucky in the afternoon that it pissed down and this reduced the grip levels to make the tyre differences much less noticable.
Just telling you how it was before anyone starts getting too excited and slagging me off.
Mags
I'm sure they just suffer from brand snobbery, I can't fault them but I haven't really pushed it on the road.
A driver training day I went on recently showed them to be predictable, didn't get any wierd behaviour or excessive under/oversteer (well no more oversteer than you'd expect in a Z3M
)Re: mixing tyres, a guy on the training day with me had a mix of goodyear/pirelli front to back and it was a disaster, due to the different grip levels he was getting loads of understeer follwed by sudden snap oversteer caused by mixing the brands (according to the instructor) he was lucky in the afternoon that it pissed down and this reduced the grip levels to make the tyre differences much less noticable.
Just telling you how it was before anyone starts getting too excited and slagging me off.
Mags
Edited by Mags on Friday 16th November 17:17
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