a few questions about e36 m3 evo's
Discussion
basically,what go's wrong with them? i have got one to look at tomorrow thats advertised on autotrader. and this one
http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/256595.htm
which i am going to look at later in the week.
is there any warning that the vanos is going to go, is it a foregone conclusion that it will go at sometime? and is there anything i can do to stop it going?
both cars have about 130000 miles on them.will the chain need replacing?
bryan
http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/256595.htm
which i am going to look at later in the week.
is there any warning that the vanos is going to go, is it a foregone conclusion that it will go at sometime? and is there anything i can do to stop it going?
both cars have about 130000 miles on them.will the chain need replacing?
bryan
A vanos that's on the way out sounds like marbles spinning around inside a tin can... like this.
It's not necessarily a foregone conclusion that the vanos will go - some cars have done 150k on the original unit... others have had seveal units by 100k... be financially prepared for it just in case.
You can help protect the vanos by not ragging the car unti it's up to its optimum operating temperature and changing bolts, oil, etc. when recommended.
I would imagine the chain needs doing at 130k if it hasn't been done yet, though that's one area I'm not 100% sure about.
It's not necessarily a foregone conclusion that the vanos will go - some cars have done 150k on the original unit... others have had seveal units by 100k... be financially prepared for it just in case.
You can help protect the vanos by not ragging the car unti it's up to its optimum operating temperature and changing bolts, oil, etc. when recommended.
I would imagine the chain needs doing at 130k if it hasn't been done yet, though that's one area I'm not 100% sure about.
^^
As above
RE the Chain: I think it is desigend to last the life of the engine. However, as the miles pile on the chain can become rattly, increasing the risk of it jumping. You don't want that to happen
Perhaps it's best that you have the chain replaced as a precaution and have the vanos filter and bolts replaced at the same time.
As above
RE the Chain: I think it is desigend to last the life of the engine. However, as the miles pile on the chain can become rattly, increasing the risk of it jumping. You don't want that to happen
Perhaps it's best that you have the chain replaced as a precaution and have the vanos filter and bolts replaced at the same time.
well,just got back from a test drive and everything felt nice and tight,even though its done 143k. throttle pedal felt quite stiff,is this normal? just waiting to find out if it has had the vanos and clutch done. started up from cold with no rattles or anything.
it didn't feel as quick as the cavalier though,but i supposed thats just going from turbo to na.
bryan
it didn't feel as quick as the cavalier though,but i supposed thats just going from turbo to na.
bryan
You know its funny you should say that about the vauxhall.
I have a M3 Evo & I let my eldest son wash it for me & I knew he'd go for a spin, he went along to my other son's house & picked him up, while they were driving along a country road my who was in the passenger seat said Huh this is no faster than my mates V6 Vectra with that my eldest son nailed it all the way past 100mph & he said the younger brother was sat there with his legs spread wide pressed against the sides & holding on for his life while shouting OK Ok please stop ! After he said to me that he has never been in such a fast car & that its ridiculously fast .By the way it was him who told me about the ride not my eldest who just said here you are DAD its clean now!!
M3's seem to go faster & faster after 100, have a propoer ride or else that must be some tuned vauxhall ?
I have a M3 Evo & I let my eldest son wash it for me & I knew he'd go for a spin, he went along to my other son's house & picked him up, while they were driving along a country road my who was in the passenger seat said Huh this is no faster than my mates V6 Vectra with that my eldest son nailed it all the way past 100mph & he said the younger brother was sat there with his legs spread wide pressed against the sides & holding on for his life while shouting OK Ok please stop ! After he said to me that he has never been in such a fast car & that its ridiculously fast .By the way it was him who told me about the ride not my eldest who just said here you are DAD its clean now!!
M3's seem to go faster & faster after 100, have a propoer ride or else that must be some tuned vauxhall ?
The S50 doesn't really strut it's stuff until after 5k. You either didn't get a decent spin in it or some German Ponies have gone AWAL in those 140k miles.
Very unscientific and not very clever, but on a recent hoon a few of us attended in Scotland, there was nothing in it between a 996 4S and my M3 Evo (only mods are a cat back and air filter).
Now, I wouldn't class the Porker as supercar quick, but a slouch it is not.
Very unscientific and not very clever, but on a recent hoon a few of us attended in Scotland, there was nothing in it between a 996 4S and my M3 Evo (only mods are a cat back and air filter).
Now, I wouldn't class the Porker as supercar quick, but a slouch it is not.
Throttle pedals can feel stiff on ///M cars because they have to operate more than throttle butterfly. If it's overly stiff it can also be the peddle top link, it can become gummed up, just need to whip it off and clean it up a bit.
///M's can feel slow when coming from turbo cars as the power delivery is smoother and more towards the top end compared to the low down torque rush from a turbo car. Some people can't do without that turbo rush but keep an ///M above 4500rpm and it will fly, above 100mph and lower displacement turbo cars tend to be slower. There is no replacement for displacement.
///M's can feel slow when coming from turbo cars as the power delivery is smoother and more towards the top end compared to the low down torque rush from a turbo car. Some people can't do without that turbo rush but keep an ///M above 4500rpm and it will fly, above 100mph and lower displacement turbo cars tend to be slower. There is no replacement for displacement.
My rule of M3 thumb.
Make sure you buy on condition and history. Not on milage. M3 evo engines are pretty bulletproof aside from (overpublicised) vanos issues. To test the vanos (if it's not rattling like the sound clip above) is to get someone to rev the car at idle to 2.5k then let the revs drop back to idle. If there is a "Brr rrr rrr rrr" sort of noise from the front of the engine then MAYBE there's an issue.
M cars MUST have a bulletproof service history. You can call BMW customer services and they will tell you where and when you car was serviced if you provide the chassis number to them. Then you can cross check that info with the service book then call those dealers and check what work was done.
But main rule of thumb is. If you can't afford to fix it then you can't afford the car. Harsh perhaps but fair.
Make sure you buy on condition and history. Not on milage. M3 evo engines are pretty bulletproof aside from (overpublicised) vanos issues. To test the vanos (if it's not rattling like the sound clip above) is to get someone to rev the car at idle to 2.5k then let the revs drop back to idle. If there is a "Brr rrr rrr rrr" sort of noise from the front of the engine then MAYBE there's an issue.
M cars MUST have a bulletproof service history. You can call BMW customer services and they will tell you where and when you car was serviced if you provide the chassis number to them. Then you can cross check that info with the service book then call those dealers and check what work was done.
But main rule of thumb is. If you can't afford to fix it then you can't afford the car. Harsh perhaps but fair.
dangerousbryan said:
i would be able to fix it myself as it is what i do for a living(just not on bm's) car has full dealer history up to 117k and then from an independant up to now.
just don't fancy paying 5k out and then the vaos going.
bryan
Check very carefully that there isn't a VANOS issue. Why is he selling it for instance? Use E36Guy's guide above as he knows his onions.just don't fancy paying 5k out and then the vaos going.
bryan
If all is fine, then I'd be surprised if you suddenly ahd an issue.
The VANOS issue is over-hyped and it makes everyone paranoid as a result.
Looks like a straight car. Maybe a tad pricey for the mileage though?
dangerousbryan said:
i would be able to fix it myself as it is what i do for a living(just not on bm's) car has full dealer history up to 117k and then from an independant up to now.
just don't fancy paying 5k out and then the vaos going. bryan
Unlikely tbh dude. These are not pinto engines. Vanos is the variable cam timing system and it's a system of gears which have to be calibrated correctly. just don't fancy paying 5k out and then the vaos going. bryan
It is possible to lock off the vanos and essentially remove it completely but you end up with the cams in high rev setting and therefore lose all low end easy power. This is best kept for racers!
Edited by E36GUY on Wednesday 17th October 09:38
chris7676 said:
If the VANOS issue was overhyped why would there be so many cars with them replaced (just by looking at classifieds) ???
Some have been replaced as a precaution I would have thought (most likely through extended warranties), or there might be confusion between the VANOS unit itself and the VANOS bolts and filter.Besides, I'm fairly convinced that the VANOS issue is down to misuse and abuse. Many will have failed to realise that a highly stressed engine such as the S50, needs to be warmed up properly first before it can be gunned.
I think if your buying a car with the performace of an M3 you need to have something in reserve. They vanos issue seams overly talked about and if it does go i understand is around £1500 to replace.
How ever if you don't go for an M3 what will the £5k go on?
Impreza - Turbo could go, melted pistons isn't uncommon?
Sunny GTIR - Again turbos, transmission and pistons could cause problems.
Cosworth - rust, turbo, pistons if they've been badly tunned.
etc etc etc
If you don't want the thought of a large bill then older, cheap performace cars may not be a good idea. Sorry if that sounds harsh.
How ever if you don't go for an M3 what will the £5k go on?
Impreza - Turbo could go, melted pistons isn't uncommon?
Sunny GTIR - Again turbos, transmission and pistons could cause problems.
Cosworth - rust, turbo, pistons if they've been badly tunned.
etc etc etc
If you don't want the thought of a large bill then older, cheap performace cars may not be a good idea. Sorry if that sounds harsh.
Schnell said:
Some have been replaced as a precaution I would have thought (most likely through extended warranties)
I find that very hard to believe. There's no way a BMW main dealer would change such an expensive part under warranty unless it actually needed replacing. I also find it unlikely that someone would pay VANOS replacement cost out of their own pocket unless is actually needed doing. After all, what's the point of replacing it as a precaution? If you have the money to replace it you'd let it sit in the bank earning interest until a replacement was actually needed - if it never needed replacing you'd have saved yourself a big bundle of cash.andye30m3 said:
They vanos issue seams overly talked about and if it does go i understand is around £1500 to replace.
I've heard up to £2,700 for VANOS replacement, but I'll admit that I've never been given a definitive price. As for the issue being overhyped... well maybe it is, but the hype has to have been prompted by something. It's certainly a big enough issue for an element of hype to have been spawned... but maybe not as big an issue as they hype has made it into. One thing is I wouldn't have an M3 Evo without a good £3k sitting in the bank... though I wouldn't be put off, indeed I am keeping my eyes peeled in case one that really takes my fancy crops-up, though the insurance quotes I've been getting are comic genius and are more likely to put a stop to my plans than any potential mechanical issue.Edited by MitchT on Wednesday 17th October 17:41
I got a quote for doing the vanos form an expecive BMW speciliest prior to buying an evo and they said around £1500 not sure if that was inc VAT
I have also heard it can be removed and the car remaped for around £500. This means you don't have the VVT which reaults in the engine being less smooth at low revs (not undrivable) but can show an increase in peak power and torque.
I have also heard it can be removed and the car remaped for around £500. This means you don't have the VVT which reaults in the engine being less smooth at low revs (not undrivable) but can show an increase in peak power and torque.
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