M3 SMG Cat D - Too Risky?
Discussion
Hi all.
I'm not a regular so apologies for any intrusion.
I'm about to give in to many years temptation and buy an M3 Cab.
Been looking for a while, however have struggled to find spec I want.
Have now found one with all the spec I wanted, an 05 SMG with Hardtop, less than 20k miles on sale at an independent for £30k. Only trouble is...it has 'minor previous Cat D damage'. Dealer says it was shoved in a hedge and had front wing damage, assuered me it's all been done via BMW, won't affect warranty, my insurance, etc.
HPI states:
Condition Alert: VRM and VIN recorded as 'total loss' by insurers.
Inspection Alert: VRM and VIN not recorded as a repaired insurance 'total loss'
Category D - Vehicle damaged but repairable - the insurer decided not to repair.
My concern is that for such a relatively new car with good spec and miles, why would 'minor damage' result in a write off.
I've done a number of searches for threads / advice but without much joy, so decided to give the experts a try.........so any thoughts / advise very much appreciated. Thanks.
Paul
I'm not a regular so apologies for any intrusion.
I'm about to give in to many years temptation and buy an M3 Cab.
Been looking for a while, however have struggled to find spec I want.
Have now found one with all the spec I wanted, an 05 SMG with Hardtop, less than 20k miles on sale at an independent for £30k. Only trouble is...it has 'minor previous Cat D damage'. Dealer says it was shoved in a hedge and had front wing damage, assuered me it's all been done via BMW, won't affect warranty, my insurance, etc.
HPI states:
Condition Alert: VRM and VIN recorded as 'total loss' by insurers.
Inspection Alert: VRM and VIN not recorded as a repaired insurance 'total loss'
Category D - Vehicle damaged but repairable - the insurer decided not to repair.
My concern is that for such a relatively new car with good spec and miles, why would 'minor damage' result in a write off.
I've done a number of searches for threads / advice but without much joy, so decided to give the experts a try.........so any thoughts / advise very much appreciated. Thanks.
Paul
Thanks for reply.
My head needed the direct, objective approach - although heart was hoping it would be so direct!
Is walk away the only option [I haven't entered into price negotiation yet - if the price was better, would it be worth considering?]
I do 50k miles a year so take a battering on depreciation anyway......and it DOES look fantastic [yep, I know - most of them do!] Thanks again
My head needed the direct, objective approach - although heart was hoping it would be so direct!
Is walk away the only option [I haven't entered into price negotiation yet - if the price was better, would it be worth considering?]
I do 50k miles a year so take a battering on depreciation anyway......and it DOES look fantastic [yep, I know - most of them do!] Thanks again
Doing 50k pa? No reason why one cant do that mileage, but values ARE very mileage sensitive
My next advise would be to try a new shape 335d you might just surprise yourself!
I was in a 530d last week and had a college following in a Boxster S... he had to pedal hard to keep up! so factor in more power and less weight youve got a very quick car
My next advise would be to try a new shape 335d you might just surprise yourself!
I was in a 530d last week and had a college following in a Boxster S... he had to pedal hard to keep up! so factor in more power and less weight youve got a very quick car
I just sold my Boxster S yesterday and looking to part ex my 330 ci Clubsport on M3 Cab!
Not just the power I'm after in an M3 - its the combination of styling, practicality - going from 2 cars to 1 I need 4 seats, [plus Cab for the few days I'll get to take roof down], etc. And of course the pace!
Not just the power I'm after in an M3 - its the combination of styling, practicality - going from 2 cars to 1 I need 4 seats, [plus Cab for the few days I'll get to take roof down], etc. And of course the pace!
Cat D on a car that new would worry me a bit, My E36 M3 is cat D but it happened when the car was worth 10K so the damage would have been £6K+ to right off, which with BMW parts prices and the £2.5K SMG pump being damaged isn't that major.
A 30K car it would have had approx £20K worth of damage, which must have been quite major.
A 30K car it would have had approx £20K worth of damage, which must have been quite major.
andye30m3 said:
Cat D on a car that new would worry me a bit, My E36 M3 is cat D but it happened when the car was worth 10K so the damage would have been £6K+ to right off, which with BMW parts prices and the £2.5K SMG pump being damaged isn't that major.
A 30K car it would have had approx £20K worth of damage, which must have been quite major.
My sentiments exactly.A 30K car it would have had approx £20K worth of damage, which must have been quite major.
Thanks all - have walked away.
One thing I did learn from doing my homework in last 24 hrs is that Insurers take the cost of loan car [for time it will take damaged to be fixed] into account when deciding whether to Cat D or not. High end cars are often on a like for like. I once had a knock from a foreign lorry, told the insuance co I wasn't happy driving a mondeo replacement. They didn't have any equiv 'grades' to my car, so moved me up a grade to an Merc SL. Fully inc cost to them was £400 per DAY!My repairs took 8 weeks in the end due to parts delays, so the loan car alone cost > £20k. Factor that, plus a few spares and labour into repairing a car more than a year old....
So perhaps there ARE some 'safe' bargains out there - for those braver than me!
One thing I did learn from doing my homework in last 24 hrs is that Insurers take the cost of loan car [for time it will take damaged to be fixed] into account when deciding whether to Cat D or not. High end cars are often on a like for like. I once had a knock from a foreign lorry, told the insuance co I wasn't happy driving a mondeo replacement. They didn't have any equiv 'grades' to my car, so moved me up a grade to an Merc SL. Fully inc cost to them was £400 per DAY!My repairs took 8 weeks in the end due to parts delays, so the loan car alone cost > £20k. Factor that, plus a few spares and labour into repairing a car more than a year old....
So perhaps there ARE some 'safe' bargains out there - for those braver than me!
PK1990 said:
Dealer says it was shoved in a hedge and had front wing damage, assuered me it's all been done via BMW, won't affect warranty, my insurance, etc.
Apologies to any honest dealers out there BUT don't they all say this???How about pictures of the damage or repair bills to prove the extent of the damage?
Even such evidence is not really foolproof though....
PK1990 said:
Thanks all - have walked away.
One thing I did learn from doing my homework in last 24 hrs is that Insurers take the cost of loan car [for time it will take damaged to be fixed] into account when deciding whether to Cat D or not. High end cars are often on a like for like. I once had a knock from a foreign lorry, told the insuance co I wasn't happy driving a mondeo replacement. They didn't have any equiv 'grades' to my car, so moved me up a grade to an Merc SL. Fully inc cost to them was £400 per DAY!My repairs took 8 weeks in the end due to parts delays, so the loan car alone cost > £20k. Factor that, plus a few spares and labour into repairing a car more than a year old....
So perhaps there ARE some 'safe' bargains out there - for those braver than me!
Did they end up repairing your car then?One thing I did learn from doing my homework in last 24 hrs is that Insurers take the cost of loan car [for time it will take damaged to be fixed] into account when deciding whether to Cat D or not. High end cars are often on a like for like. I once had a knock from a foreign lorry, told the insuance co I wasn't happy driving a mondeo replacement. They didn't have any equiv 'grades' to my car, so moved me up a grade to an Merc SL. Fully inc cost to them was £400 per DAY!My repairs took 8 weeks in the end due to parts delays, so the loan car alone cost > £20k. Factor that, plus a few spares and labour into repairing a car more than a year old....
So perhaps there ARE some 'safe' bargains out there - for those braver than me!
PK1990 said:
Yep - I think as it was a continental company, they didn't ask too many questions when I challenged the Mondeo and insisted on like-for-like replacement. But the upgrade and delays with parts racked the price up - far more than they anticipated I assume.
Interesting...that you had decent dervice!So that means that didn't take into account the cost of the loan car when determining whether to write yours off or not?
I geuss in this case though it was difficult for them to know how long the repairs would take-they were probably on banking on it taking or week or so I assume.
My point is though do they take into account the cost of a loan car when deciding whether to write off or not?
Mty thinking is that in the case of this M3 Cab if really was only just a bent fender (I reckon the suspension was shagged to and it probably went into the hedge sideways or backwards anyway-I mean who understeers an M3 into a hedge-you've got to go out in a big spin surely!!) then it shouldn't have taken long to repair so they could have organised a 330 or something for the guy to drive around in for a week or two at no big cost. This would negate the theory that there are cat d cars around simply because of the additional cost of the loan car?
Going slightly off at a tangent (sorry)...
Could someone please explain to me how and by whom exactly these categories are determined?
I'm currently working on a 1986 E28 528i. The car ended up being registered "category C" after someone backed into it in a supermarket car-park whilst the previous owner was sitting in it reading a newspaper.
The car was repaired by a BMW Maindealer with a total bill of under £1K including all parts, labour and VAT. As we all know £1K at a maindealer couldn't have bought very much! Yet, the insurance company (I'm presuming?) logged 'Cat C' against it. The manager of the BMW maindealership wrote a signed letter to confirm that this was minor damage that should not have constituted a 'Cat C' label. However, it would appear once this label has been applied it can't be undone?!
Seems crazy to me.
Could someone please explain to me how and by whom exactly these categories are determined?
I'm currently working on a 1986 E28 528i. The car ended up being registered "category C" after someone backed into it in a supermarket car-park whilst the previous owner was sitting in it reading a newspaper.
The car was repaired by a BMW Maindealer with a total bill of under £1K including all parts, labour and VAT. As we all know £1K at a maindealer couldn't have bought very much! Yet, the insurance company (I'm presuming?) logged 'Cat C' against it. The manager of the BMW maindealership wrote a signed letter to confirm that this was minor damage that should not have constituted a 'Cat C' label. However, it would appear once this label has been applied it can't be undone?!
Seems crazy to me.
I know this was an independent but two seperate BMW dealerships told me they WON'T sell accident repaired cars as AUC's with a 12 month warranty, so I'm guessing there could be warranty issues.
The only way you could be safe buying a car like that is if you knew the previous owner who had had the accident and you knew all the exact details of it. If thats not the case then you're taking a gamble.....a £30,000 gamble which will get you a very nice late E46 M3 or a low mileage CSL.
The only way you could be safe buying a car like that is if you knew the previous owner who had had the accident and you knew all the exact details of it. If thats not the case then you're taking a gamble.....a £30,000 gamble which will get you a very nice late E46 M3 or a low mileage CSL.
andye30m3 said:
Cat D on a car that new would worry me a bit, My E36 M3 is cat D but it happened when the car was worth 10K so the damage would have been £6K+ to right off, which with BMW parts prices and the £2.5K SMG pump being damaged isn't that major.
A 30K car it would have had approx £20K worth of damage, which must have been quite major.
That is a good explanation. I'd want a bit more off the asking price than what they're offering, if i'm honest i'm not watching the market...well not for these and a Cat D in what i'm looking for popped up CONSIDERABLY less than the going rate - but it is a case of right car wrong time.A 30K car it would have had approx £20K worth of damage, which must have been quite major.
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