E36 M3 non Evo running costs? Slow steering?
Discussion
Hello. I have been giving considerable thought to buying an e36 M3. I have seen good ones coming up for about £5k.
I've had various quick FWD cars in the past and have recently bought a nice MX5 with torsen LSD to learn RWD (whilst also paying for our wedding).
The majority of advice I have found so far suggetsts that an Evo e36 is more costly to run due to the (over-hyped?) double vanos issue.
It seems to me that a nice non Evo M3 with near 300bhp (with induction mod) and RWD for £5K is a bargain. I'm not a number plate snob! Especially as you could run one everyday, as I have heard they are reliable and not too bad on fuel. This was brought up in the most recent issue of Evo. They also commented about the pre-Evo M3's slow steering. Is this really true? They said it can make it hard to catch the rear.
Some advice would be really appreciated. I am currently contemplating the coupe or the super-cool saloon. I like the seats from the coupe and the wheels from the early saloon. Not keen on the wood dash though.
Cheers, Matt
I've had various quick FWD cars in the past and have recently bought a nice MX5 with torsen LSD to learn RWD (whilst also paying for our wedding).
The majority of advice I have found so far suggetsts that an Evo e36 is more costly to run due to the (over-hyped?) double vanos issue.
It seems to me that a nice non Evo M3 with near 300bhp (with induction mod) and RWD for £5K is a bargain. I'm not a number plate snob! Especially as you could run one everyday, as I have heard they are reliable and not too bad on fuel. This was brought up in the most recent issue of Evo. They also commented about the pre-Evo M3's slow steering. Is this really true? They said it can make it hard to catch the rear.
Some advice would be really appreciated. I am currently contemplating the coupe or the super-cool saloon. I like the seats from the coupe and the wheels from the early saloon. Not keen on the wood dash though.
Cheers, Matt
owned a 3.0 '94 L reg coupe and can say that the back end was very easy to catch, i changed the steering wheel on mine to a smaller diameter momo one as i found the old original one too big.
running costs aren't too bad as long as you purchase a clean example, dont let high milers put you off either. Mine had 137k on the clock and still dynoed 287Bhp with 234lb of torque so still pushing std figures even at that mileage
i used to get just below or more often than not just over 300 miles to the tank on a 25mile commute and thats being slightly heavy with the old right foot
make sure its got some good boots all round and some poly bushes, these transformed the handling on my car no end
running costs aren't too bad as long as you purchase a clean example, dont let high milers put you off either. Mine had 137k on the clock and still dynoed 287Bhp with 234lb of torque so still pushing std figures even at that mileage
i used to get just below or more often than not just over 300 miles to the tank on a 25mile commute and thats being slightly heavy with the old right foot
make sure its got some good boots all round and some poly bushes, these transformed the handling on my car no end
I've got a 98 EVO SMG and the steering and handling are fine, not tritcky at all and very easy to slide gracefully. I had great fun driving back from goodwood in the rain Its not the fastest thing I've had by any stretch, but it is a good compromise between performance and practicality.
Some ppl pooh pooh the SMG box and I have to agree its not quite as involving but for traffic, its unbeatable. If I had the choice again, I'd still go for the smg as a regular driver, but then again I live in London so traffic is a given.
I think the vanos issue is over-hyped, particularly given the number of cars produced. I'd agree with the comment about buying on condition rather than mileage. That said, I went for both (I had 69k miles and top condition when I bought it). The vadar seats are great, although I'd try for black leather (it is harder wearing and doesn't mark as easily).
Regarding running costs, there are planty of indie places that will keep the car in top nick at reasonable prices. Tyres are cheapish, as are brakes etc plus there are loads of ppl making parts for them. Servicing costs are covered in other posts but seem to be c. 120 for oil, 300 for insp 1 and 600 for insp 2. I think? Not chump change but v affordable versus performance on offer. especially compared ot the old tvr which was 700 for a basic service with nothing needing fixing...
Its not the fastest thing I've had by any stretch, but it is a good compromise between performance and practicality.Some ppl pooh pooh the SMG box and I have to agree its not quite as involving but for traffic, its unbeatable. If I had the choice again, I'd still go for the smg as a regular driver, but then again I live in London so traffic is a given.
I think the vanos issue is over-hyped, particularly given the number of cars produced. I'd agree with the comment about buying on condition rather than mileage. That said, I went for both (I had 69k miles and top condition when I bought it). The vadar seats are great, although I'd try for black leather (it is harder wearing and doesn't mark as easily).
Regarding running costs, there are planty of indie places that will keep the car in top nick at reasonable prices. Tyres are cheapish, as are brakes etc plus there are loads of ppl making parts for them. Servicing costs are covered in other posts but seem to be c. 120 for oil, 300 for insp 1 and 600 for insp 2. I think? Not chump change but v affordable versus performance on offer. especially compared ot the old tvr which was 700 for a basic service with nothing needing fixing...
Edited by Cactussed on Monday 17th September 12:13
An Evo for £5k will not neccessarily be nice. It's all in the history & records mate. The MUST be bombproof if you are buying any M3.
Vanos issue is well over publicised.
My 97 Evo has cost me a grand total of zero in the year that I've owned it. The engines are bulletproof apart from the occasion vanos issue that many cars have had. The 3.0 is bulletproof completely if it's been looked after but finding a really really clean low miler one now will be hard and any you do won't be 5k.
FYI - Beemer Redeemer in Bristol will do an inspection2 on an Evo for a touch over £400. Dealers are twice that. I can average 30MPG if being calm and peaceful.
Vanos issue is well over publicised.
My 97 Evo has cost me a grand total of zero in the year that I've owned it. The engines are bulletproof apart from the occasion vanos issue that many cars have had. The 3.0 is bulletproof completely if it's been looked after but finding a really really clean low miler one now will be hard and any you do won't be 5k.
FYI - Beemer Redeemer in Bristol will do an inspection2 on an Evo for a touch over £400. Dealers are twice that. I can average 30MPG if being calm and peaceful.
Edited by E36GUY on Monday 17th September 12:20
Sounds promising so far. I think I will go for 3.0 coupe or saloon. I think I will go for one with say 100k on it but FBMWSH? I would have thought that so long as they have been well maintained they are capable of big mileages, as said earlier.
Are they particularly DIY friendly or are most things indie only affairs?
Could anyone point me in the direction of a cheap parts supplier.
Thanks, Matt
Are they particularly DIY friendly or are most things indie only affairs?
Could anyone point me in the direction of a cheap parts supplier.
Thanks, Matt
www.e36coupe.com is the destination of choice for info on the e36. First class site with a massive FAQ/DIY section.
Don't peg everything on the FSH being from BMW - there are plenty of independants out there that do a much better job than the dealers, the most obvious one being Munich Legends.
You get more monkeys working at the dealers as they don't have such a specialist repuatation to protect, and they tend to see a far wider range of cars than those garages specialising in the fastest kit from Bavaria.
You get more monkeys working at the dealers as they don't have such a specialist repuatation to protect, and they tend to see a far wider range of cars than those garages specialising in the fastest kit from Bavaria.
dan101smith said:
Don't peg everything on the FSH being from BMW - there are plenty of independants out there that do a much better job than the dealers, the most obvious one being Munich Legends.
You get more monkeys working at the dealers as they don't have such a specialist repuatation to protect, and they tend to see a far wider range of cars than those garages specialising in the fastest kit from Bavaria.
Well said that man You get more monkeys working at the dealers as they don't have such a specialist repuatation to protect, and they tend to see a far wider range of cars than those garages specialising in the fastest kit from Bavaria.
dan101smith said:
Don't peg everything on the FSH being from BMW - there are plenty of independants out there that do a much better job than the dealers, the most obvious one being Munich Legends.
You get more monkeys working at the dealers as they don't have such a specialist repuatation to protect, and they tend to see a far wider range of cars than those garages specialising in the fastest kit from Bavaria.
Completely agree with that, I wouldn't even concider taking a 10-15 year old car to a main dealer, I use munich legends for parts and do almost everything myself, M3's really arn't difficult to work on. You get more monkeys working at the dealers as they don't have such a specialist repuatation to protect, and they tend to see a far wider range of cars than those garages specialising in the fastest kit from Bavaria.
As others have said the M3's are good value at the moment and reasonable to run. I think one of the guys at munich legends has an Evo with the best part of 200,000 miles on it. I think my evo averages 26mpg and on a good day will see 32mpg. I've been told the 3.0 are slightly worse on fuel as they have the 5 speed box.
Guys.
This Vanos issue, if it did need replacing on an E36 Evo engine, what is the financial damage going to be?
I've been looking at different cars around the £10-12k mark, but they all have issues. The thought of spending £5-6k on an E36 Evo and keeping the rest in reserve in case of vanos issue is an attractive one.
I guess they shouldn't depreciate much, either?
I'd be looking at a mint standard saloon, estorial blue around '96 with circa 100k + FSH.
This Vanos issue, if it did need replacing on an E36 Evo engine, what is the financial damage going to be?
I've been looking at different cars around the £10-12k mark, but they all have issues. The thought of spending £5-6k on an E36 Evo and keeping the rest in reserve in case of vanos issue is an attractive one.
I guess they shouldn't depreciate much, either?
I'd be looking at a mint standard saloon, estorial blue around '96 with circa 100k + FSH.
MKH9130 said:
Guys.
This Vanos issue, if it did need replacing on an E36 Evo engine, what is the financial damage going to be?
I've been looking at different cars around the £10-12k mark, but they all have issues. The thought of spending £5-6k on an E36 Evo and keeping the rest in reserve in case of vanos issue is an attractive one.
I guess they shouldn't depreciate much, either?
I'd be looking at a mint standard saloon, estorial blue around '96 with circa 100k + FSH.
I got quoted £1500 but i think its now cheaper to do a vanos on an Evo than a non evo. Although they are more likely to go. This Vanos issue, if it did need replacing on an E36 Evo engine, what is the financial damage going to be?
I've been looking at different cars around the £10-12k mark, but they all have issues. The thought of spending £5-6k on an E36 Evo and keeping the rest in reserve in case of vanos issue is an attractive one.
I guess they shouldn't depreciate much, either?
I'd be looking at a mint standard saloon, estorial blue around '96 with circa 100k + FSH.
Looking a the prices of Evo's i would have thought you'd get a nice one for £8k, the ones at 12K must be dreaming or very low millage so will devalue if you use it alot.
andye30m3 said:
I got quoted £1500 but i think its now cheaper to do a vanos on an Evo than a non evo. Although they are more likely to go.
Looking a the prices of Evo's i would have thought you'd get a nice one for £8k, the ones at 12K must be dreaming or very low millage so will devalue if you use it alot.
The ones I've found seem to be around the 6-8k mark, although there are a few below that price (cheapest 3,250!!!) and some around 13k plus.Looking a the prices of Evo's i would have thought you'd get a nice one for £8k, the ones at 12K must be dreaming or very low millage so will devalue if you use it alot.
I've come to realise that the best value for money is in mid-90's high powered saloons, bang per buck is amazing and depreciation can be very low - or zero - if you buy carefully. Cheaper tax and insurance too...
My 3.0 is running around 20/1mpg being used as a toy at the weekends (so not really driven with economy in mind). I'd be embarassed if it was any more 
You can also substitute a Z3 rack (not the M model though) for the standard one and that sharpens up the steering so I'm led to believe. It's a relatively cheap mod I'm looking at doing over the winter.
You can also substitute a Z3 rack (not the M model though) for the standard one and that sharpens up the steering so I'm led to believe. It's a relatively cheap mod I'm looking at doing over the winter.
Cactussed said:
As for parts, GSF are pretty good, or you can check out one or other of the BMW magazines.
Re DIY, I think they're plenty do-able. Mind you, still trying to get my back brake discs off!
Little fu**ers will not budge!
Gonna have another go Wed night, with a bigger hammer! :P
No not tonight mate......either Thursday or this coming Saturday !Re DIY, I think they're plenty do-able. Mind you, still trying to get my back brake discs off!
Little fu**ers will not budge!
Gonna have another go Wed night, with a bigger hammer! :P
MKH9130 said:
Guys.
This Vanos issue, if it did need replacing on an E36 Evo engine, what is the financial damage going to be?
Just had mine replaced - more of a precautionary than a necessary - and thats just set me back £1,500 suplied and fitted from a very good indipendents that i use.This Vanos issue, if it did need replacing on an E36 Evo engine, what is the financial damage going to be?
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