Wanted! Detailed explanation of the M3 Evo Bi-Vanos failure!

[MitchT]

I've been thinking long and hard about buying an Elise... but I also ache for an E36 M3 Evo. The only thing that puts me off is the cost that I will face if the Bi-Vanos fails. Now I don't want to get into another discussion about how the problem is over-exaggerated... the fact is that it can't be exaggerated too much for any of the poor sods, however few they are, who do have their Bi-Vanos fail. What I would be really interested to find out is exactly what happens when it fails. Which bits fail and how? Do they fail gradually? Can it be prevented by some type of maintenance? Can the Bi-Vanos be repaired? If not, is there a cheaper way of replacing it than via a BMW main dealer? Is the failure related to age or mileage? I'd only be likely to do about 3,000 miles per annum in the car so would a recently replaced Bi-Vanos be pretty much guaranteed to work for the next ten years or more or does it contain parts that perish and fail with age? Has there even been an exhaustive report written on this issue? If I were to go down the E36 M3 Evo route I'd be in the market for a top example - probably a '99 with low mileage, so the Bi-Vanos would likely be my only major worry. I really love these cars - especially in Velvet Blue and Atlantis Blue and, while I am currently focused mainly on buying an Elise, if an M3 in one of those colours and of suitable age and mileage appears for sale I will struggle to resist it! I've just been out for a hoon in my 318is and, while it was great fun, the power and noise of the 3.2 straight six would have made it perfect!

[blade7]

Vanos ?, google it, but though it's probably the biggest evo issue don't discount crankshaft, gearbox or exhaust flexi joint problems, maybe.

[swansea v6]

Try www.e36coupe.com and see if any of them have the answers. I did hear some talk that the oil and filter for the vanos system MUST be changed on a regular basis and not to rag the car from cold and this shortens vanos life.

[poshgit]

What I would be really interested to find out is exactly what happens when it fails.
worse case - oil pi22es out the engine onto the floor!

Which bits fail and how?
the vanos "unit" usually goes - can be the gears or solenoids

Do they fail gradually?
sometimes - they can growl on for years - or go pop straight away!

Can it be prevented by some type of maintenance?
change bolts, filter, oil reglarly and don't rag it until engine oil warms up (and spend a fair amount of time praying)

Can the Bi-Vanos be repaired?
sometimes

If not, is there a cheaper way of replacing it than via a BMW main dealer?
yep - independents can do it - anything from £1k - £3k dependent on damage in the unit

Is the failure related to age or mileage?
nope - i saw a 90k miler that had had 4 units. loads of tales about different batches/makes etc ( i think even rolls royce had something to do with making them!)

I'd only be likely to do about 3,000 miles per annum in the car so would a recently replaced Bi-Vanos be pretty much guaranteed to work for the next ten
years
sadly no!

or more or does it contain parts that perish and fail with age?
not specifically

Has there even been an exhaustive report written on this issue?
get onto e36coupe - get some stong coffee, redbull and pro plus - seach all the threads on vanos - there are hundreds and read 'em all - it will really help.

If I were to go down the E36 M3 Evo route I'd be in the market for a top example - probably a '99 with low mileage, so the Bi-Vanos would likely be my only major worry. I really love these cars - especially in Velvet Blue and Atlantis Blue and, while I am currently focused mainly on buying an Elise, if an M3 in one of those colours and of suitable age and mileage appears for sale I will struggle to resist it! I've just been out for a hoon in my 318is and, while it was great fun, the power and noise of the 3.2 straight six would have made it perfect!


[i]Finally don't forget - there were upmteen thousand EVOs made but not umpteen thousand threads about failure, but the ones that do fail are written about so a distorted representation perhaps......

go find a good local independent - have a chat with them - they repair/see hundreds of BMWs and will give you much better advice than most forums - after all they are at the sharp end - i went to one - best hour or two i ever spent chatting in their workshop about EVOs

its a good car - Sub £10k you will get a very good one that not many cars worth below £30k will live with when you drop a cog and nail it [/i]

PS - sorry about italics - i don't know how to do the quote/unquote business!!!

[blade7]

poshgit said:

its a good car - Sub £10k you will get a very good one that not many cars worth below £30k will live with when you drop a cog and nail it [/i]

Er I think there's a few sub £10k cars that would trouble an E36 M3, imprezza, mitsi evo, cossie, 944 turbo etc, just keep a couple of grand tucked away in case of vanos issues is the usual plan. and another wedge if there's an inspection 2 service imminent.

[naetype]

The best answer yet:

http://www.e36coupe.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1098...

See the poll results and make your own mind up.

[UJM3]

Why not go for a 3.0 non evo, much more reliable, better stronger gearbox and produce almost as much power (evo's rarely produce the 321bhp quoted) Lots of non evo m3's going round with 150k + still on their original vanos and performing great.

If you can find one a 3.0 gt would be great, okay its green not blue but comes with aluminum doors, different cams (iirc), ecu , adjustable spoilers and is just about the most exclusive M3 you can get..

Just have to find one of course..

[blade7]

UJM3 said:

Why not go for a 3.0 non evo, much more reliable, better stronger gearbox and produce almost as much power (evo's rarely produce the 321bhp quoted) Lots of non evo m3's going round with 150k + still on their original vanos and performing great.

If you can find one a 3.0 gt would be great, okay its green not blue but comes with aluminum doors, different cams (iirc), ecu , adjustable spoilers and is just about the most exclusive M3 you can get..

Just have to find one of course..

And the £10k to pay for it.

[mc5]

naetype said:

The best answer yet:

http://www.e36coupe.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1098...

See the poll results and make your own mind up.

I started that poll. Mines a 3 litre & although it runs well I have a growl when I start up & at 1200rpm on the overrun when oil is warm.

Ive asked BMW and a couple of well known M specialists & haven't got a definative answer yet & mainly advise to chanege the vanos I think to cover their backs. My feeling is its the gears that wear or develop some play & not the actual vanos unit.

If the car is running poorly its down to the solenoids or o rings within the vanos which leak oil but can be easily fixed.

[DL-C]

I know absolutely nothing about vanos but I did have a 97 Elise Super 140 for just under a year, before recently buying an E46 M3. The Elise was fantastic for the first few months but after that it became a pain in the backside(literally). The discomfort, tearing clothes getting in and out, girls not wearing skirts when you take them out, the rattles and leaking roof (which it will have) won't seem like a big deal at first but you soon get pi$$ed off after a while, not even mentioning the winter months. Had a few mechanical problems of it's own too, the exhaust been the main one.
My advice would be go for the M3 and take your chance with the vanos.

[Schnell]

DL-C said:

I know absolutely nothing about vanos but I did have a 97 Elise Super 140 for just under a year, before recently buying an E46 M3. The Elise was fantastic for the first few months but after that it became a pain in the backside(literally). The discomfort, tearing clothes getting in and out, girls not wearing skirts when you take them out, the rattles and leaking roof (which it will have) won't seem like a big deal at first but you soon get pi$$ed off after a while, not even mentioning the winter months. Had a few mechanical problems of it's own too, the exhaust been the main one.
My advice would be go for the M3 and take your chance with the vanos.

This is the reason I bought an M3 Evo and not an Elise/VX220.

One has to remember that for most of us (with only one car), a car needs to be used every day. and to ferry folk/stuff about.

Whilst I enjoyed driving the Elise and the VX, after a ~20min drive in each I knew I wouldn't be able to live with them every day. First of all, I hate rattles and both cars simply felt unfinished, such was the shocking level of build quality.

The Bimmer, is not nearly as focussed to drive. Try and drive it like an Elise and you'll come a cropper. However, it is still an excellent drivers car in its own way and by christ does that engine sound glorious!

Moreover, having now experienced the level of bulid quality of the bimmer, I'm not sure I could go back to anything less.

[Dino_L]

blade7 said:

poshgit said:

its a good car - Sub £10k you will get a very good one that not many cars worth below £30k will live with when you drop a cog and nail it [/i]

Er I think there's a few sub £10k cars that would trouble an E36 M3, imprezza, mitsi evo, cossie, 944 turbo etc, just keep a couple of grand tucked away in case of vanos issues is the usual plan. and another wedge if there's an inspection 2 service imminent.

Why is it these days that cars get compared for their out and out speed. It really winds me up as in the real world it simply is not an issue. I have a few vids on YouTube from the 'ring and you always get tossers slagging off the cars involved!!

You buy a car for what is important to you and that may not be out and out speed.

Oh and for the record I drive an E36 M3 Evo (with schrick cams and Eisenmann exhaust) and the only cars that have beaten me on the odd blast were a heavily modified Mustang GT and a Corvette Z06. My trusty M3 has kept up with a Maserati GT BiTurbo thingy and a Ferrari F430 on a recent thrash with a couple of mates.

So yes it winds me up when people go on about out right performance all the time. Hell my 205 GTi would give most cars a hard time on a twisty road so its not always about straight line speed (besides most people that drive Scoobies or Mitsi EVOs are chavs or muppets that belong inside)

[Cliffv8]

linky http://mukerji.co.uk/vanos/