M3 e46 - Manual or SMG
Discussion
Apologies of this subject had been done to death, but I couldn’t find too much on it. The situation I am in is that I am seriously considering getting an M3 in the not too distant future (model 2003/2004 ish). I am sold on the fact that I would like one and will probably end up with one but there is a big decision to be made with regards to which transmission and I am in a bit of a quandry. The SMG sounds like it could be excellent but fear that it will not live up to expectations (i.e. it would feel similar to auto with a paddle shift) and that I would be left wishing I had bought a manual.
I have done quite a lot of research but have a couple of questions that I hope your collective knowledge can help with.
1. Sure that some of you love SMG and that some of you opted for manual. Can guess what the manual is like, but would love to hear the pros and cons of the SMG. For those that may have been in the same mind set as me and opted for it, was it a good decision or would you have preferred the manual. (in normal circumstances I would have gone to a main dealer and driven an SMG first, but now that these are no longer available as a new car this is not an option and I am not in the practice of test driving privately owned cars).
2. Are the SMGs reliable, do they eat clutches, have other issues/foibles and do they bump up the maintanence costs?
Any insight would be greatly appreciated to help my decision before I start the hunt for the right car.
Thanks.
I have done quite a lot of research but have a couple of questions that I hope your collective knowledge can help with.
1. Sure that some of you love SMG and that some of you opted for manual. Can guess what the manual is like, but would love to hear the pros and cons of the SMG. For those that may have been in the same mind set as me and opted for it, was it a good decision or would you have preferred the manual. (in normal circumstances I would have gone to a main dealer and driven an SMG first, but now that these are no longer available as a new car this is not an option and I am not in the practice of test driving privately owned cars).
2. Are the SMGs reliable, do they eat clutches, have other issues/foibles and do they bump up the maintanence costs?
Any insight would be greatly appreciated to help my decision before I start the hunt for the right car.
Thanks.
You're going to end up more confused than before you asked the question!
Yes, the topic has been an endless source of debate here, but I'll kick it off again!
If you are a purist, get a manual car with 18in wheels. This gives the best driving experience on road and track.
OK, I better take cover now!
Yes, the topic has been an endless source of debate here, but I'll kick it off again!
If you are a purist, get a manual car with 18in wheels. This gives the best driving experience on road and track.
OK, I better take cover now!
Edited by Deutscher on Thursday 12th July 15:27
I drove both and picked an SMG.
I put over 40,000 miles on it in a year and naver had the slightest problem.
They take a little geting used to but I think they're great.
I've got an M5 now and one of the main reasons I bought it was getting an SMG again (over a CLS 55AMG with an auto and an RS4 manual - both which I tried).
Dr Gonzo's comments on pros and cons are spot on however - the auto is really pants; heaven knows why you need it at all.
I put over 40,000 miles on it in a year and naver had the slightest problem.
They take a little geting used to but I think they're great.
I've got an M5 now and one of the main reasons I bought it was getting an SMG again (over a CLS 55AMG with an auto and an RS4 manual - both which I tried).
Dr Gonzo's comments on pros and cons are spot on however - the auto is really pants; heaven knows why you need it at all.
To be honest I am would not be choosing it for the automatic mode so the fact that there is not so good doesn't really affect the decision. The reliability of the SMG system would affect the decision as well but how it works/feels is the critical element.
Guess that key question is around driver involvement and enjoyment. I have always owned and enjoyed manual cars and trying to master the art of heel/toeing has always been part of the fun of driving so so satisfying when you get it spot on. I also understand that the SMG box will undoutably very different to a manual, but will it be any less enjoyable or involving?
Do the owners of SMG cars feel that the system does live up to the BMW hype and verify that it can really be compared with "Ferrari type"/"sports/racing car style paddle shift systems? I would not want something like the tiptronic system that porsche employs which is basically an auto with buttons on the steering wheel.
Sorry if this seems like a load of questions lumped into one but it is a crutial decision and one that I am sure that a lot of you have been through.
Thanks
Guess that key question is around driver involvement and enjoyment. I have always owned and enjoyed manual cars and trying to master the art of heel/toeing has always been part of the fun of driving so so satisfying when you get it spot on. I also understand that the SMG box will undoutably very different to a manual, but will it be any less enjoyable or involving?
Do the owners of SMG cars feel that the system does live up to the BMW hype and verify that it can really be compared with "Ferrari type"/"sports/racing car style paddle shift systems? I would not want something like the tiptronic system that porsche employs which is basically an auto with buttons on the steering wheel.
Sorry if this seems like a load of questions lumped into one but it is a crutial decision and one that I am sure that a lot of you have been through.
Thanks
AAAndy said:
To be honest I am would not be choosing it for the automatic mode so the fact that there is not so good doesn't really affect the decision. The reliability of the SMG system would affect the decision as well but how it works/feels is the critical element.
Guess that key question is around driver involvement and enjoyment. I have always owned and enjoyed manual cars and trying to master the art of heel/toeing has always been part of the fun of driving so so satisfying when you get it spot on. I also understand that the SMG box will undoutably very different to a manual, but will it be any less enjoyable or involving?
Do the owners of SMG cars feel that the system does live up to the BMW hype and verify that it can really be compared with "Ferrari type"/"sports/racing car style paddle shift systems? I would not want something like the tiptronic system that porsche employs which is basically an auto with buttons on the steering wheel.
Sorry if this seems like a load of questions lumped into one but it is a crutial decision and one that I am sure that a lot of you have been through.
Thanks
There is skill involved in using SMG well - heel&toe'ing does help in some situations for example. Personally I couldn't imagine buying a manual M3, for me SMG is a big contributor to what makes it special. Guess that key question is around driver involvement and enjoyment. I have always owned and enjoyed manual cars and trying to master the art of heel/toeing has always been part of the fun of driving so so satisfying when you get it spot on. I also understand that the SMG box will undoutably very different to a manual, but will it be any less enjoyable or involving?
Do the owners of SMG cars feel that the system does live up to the BMW hype and verify that it can really be compared with "Ferrari type"/"sports/racing car style paddle shift systems? I would not want something like the tiptronic system that porsche employs which is basically an auto with buttons on the steering wheel.
Sorry if this seems like a load of questions lumped into one but it is a crutial decision and one that I am sure that a lot of you have been through.
Thanks
It's nothing like a tiptronic.
I've had both and would choose SMG again without question, I love it.
If you are buying 2003 or 2004 go the whole hog and get yourself a CSL.....If you can live without the toys! Every trip is special.
The only clutch issues are the occasional surrrrring, The solution, drive like a t w a t for a few miles in S6 mode and it sorts its self out.
If you are buying 2003 or 2004 go the whole hog and get yourself a CSL.....If you can live without the toys! Every trip is special.
The only clutch issues are the occasional surrrrring, The solution, drive like a t w a t for a few miles in S6 mode and it sorts its self out.
But thats personal choice, i just didnt fancy the smg and still wanted to keep the traditional gearchange which is very good in the m3 and can improved again with a shortshifter if needed Thanks for the feedback so far.
Maybe it is just because the people who love their SMGs have responded but sounds like the slight majority of opinion does go in favour of the SMG, and that many of you having gone through the same quandry have not regretted your choice.
Have also not heard much about any reliability issues or nightmare stories. Have BMW just got the build quality/reliability of this spot as ususal or are they just good at fixing anything that comes up? It just strikes me as a system that must be reasonably complicated which normally means costly if going wrong. But maybe it is a very solid system that doesn't really go wrong (even if launch control is used every now and again).
Maybe it is just because the people who love their SMGs have responded but sounds like the slight majority of opinion does go in favour of the SMG, and that many of you having gone through the same quandry have not regretted your choice.
Have also not heard much about any reliability issues or nightmare stories. Have BMW just got the build quality/reliability of this spot as ususal or are they just good at fixing anything that comes up? It just strikes me as a system that must be reasonably complicated which normally means costly if going wrong. But maybe it is a very solid system that doesn't really go wrong (even if launch control is used every now and again).
Don'y buy an SMG unless you've got warranty on the car! I've seen an increasing number of SMG faults appearing on the E46 M3 over the last year, shift unit and internal gearbox problems. You cannot buy the SMG shift unit or gearbox seperately you have to buy a 'matched' unit and these cost close to £4000+ that's without labour.
T-bagger - Thanks very much for that response. Very useful to get this kind of insight because I have looked around to find both sides of the story and could never really find anything from SMG owners about any reliability faults. All I have been hearing a lot of positive views about the way that the SMG cars drive.
For what is a relatively complex gear change system in a performance car I would be surprised if they never any a little attention (or needed complete replacements), but good to know roughly what percentage of cars experience issues, if it is only at high mileage or if this occurs at random mileage which could point to susceptability depending on driving style (i.e.driven hard or using the built in launch control features).
I would never shy away from meticulously servicing my cars but am not keen on paying BMWs warranty prices either ( think that I would just put it into a personal slush fund just in case).
For what is a relatively complex gear change system in a performance car I would be surprised if they never any a little attention (or needed complete replacements), but good to know roughly what percentage of cars experience issues, if it is only at high mileage or if this occurs at random mileage which could point to susceptability depending on driving style (i.e.driven hard or using the built in launch control features).
I would never shy away from meticulously servicing my cars but am not keen on paying BMWs warranty prices either ( think that I would just put it into a personal slush fund just in case).
No problem, the faults i've experienced have been quite varied the only common symptom being an unwillingness of the gearbox to change up or down a gear (an internal gearbox fault). As you say this could possibly be due to driving style or lack of mechanical sympathy. Oil changes on the transmission are every inspection 2, so after the 1200 mile running in service there could be 60k between oil changes, which given the high temps these transmissions reach and the brutally hard gear shifts that SMG is capable of, is too long in my personal opinion. There is no oil change for the SMG unit, debatable if it'll ever need it though.
One thing to note though is that all the SMG faults have been on correctly maintained cars both in and out of BMW's 3 year warranty.
On the positive side though, BMW have always paid a substantial chunk of the repair costs when the vehicle is out of warranty through 'Goodwill', sometimes the entire parts bill just leaving the customer with a labour charge.
Goodluck with finding a nice one, drop me a message if you need anymore advice - (as i've done and overseen repair work in all areas of the M3!)
It's a great car and you won't be disappointed
One thing to note though is that all the SMG faults have been on correctly maintained cars both in and out of BMW's 3 year warranty.
On the positive side though, BMW have always paid a substantial chunk of the repair costs when the vehicle is out of warranty through 'Goodwill', sometimes the entire parts bill just leaving the customer with a labour charge.
Goodluck with finding a nice one, drop me a message if you need anymore advice - (as i've done and overseen repair work in all areas of the M3!)
It's a great car and you won't be disappointed
Absolutely fine, can somethimes be a tiny bit jerky in traffic (in first to second) but to be honest I am pretty impressed overall.
Tend now to just pull away in second.
Changes at speed are in no way jerky at all, just play about with the settings until you find the right one for your driving
Tend now to just pull away in second.
Changes at speed are in no way jerky at all, just play about with the settings until you find the right one for your driving
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