E39 M5, solidity at the helm query..
Discussion
Experiencing a very small amount of play through the steering wheel at bang on 70: tyres are all new, pressures correct.
Just how solid is everybody elses' steering and is it just a case of wheel balancing or is there a geometry issue to be covered?
Any other bits which might need rejuvenating? Despite a fBMWsh the old girl is knocking on 90 and sagging, I guess, is to be expected.
Would appreciate a hit list, since really I don't want to part with the damn thing.
Danker, DeR.
Just how solid is everybody elses' steering and is it just a case of wheel balancing or is there a geometry issue to be covered?
Any other bits which might need rejuvenating? Despite a fBMWsh the old girl is knocking on 90 and sagging, I guess, is to be expected.
Would appreciate a hit list, since really I don't want to part with the damn thing.
Danker, DeR.
Original wheels, I am hyper sensitive to imperfections in steering, local dealer reckoned it as good as any he's driven.
It's not bad but it's a pronounced lack of absolute rock solidity more or less at the nsl: can be camber/surface dependent but not a prodyct of excess Stella consumption, honest.
Will try another mob within the region: I always wonder about the precise identification of things in these situations - from simple wheel balancing, through tracking, geometry, control arm bushes, suspension issues, you know? I mean you'd think at least one chap would have a clue, or are they all a la carte chimps chez le propellored network?
It's not bad but it's a pronounced lack of absolute rock solidity more or less at the nsl: can be camber/surface dependent but not a prodyct of excess Stella consumption, honest.
Will try another mob within the region: I always wonder about the precise identification of things in these situations - from simple wheel balancing, through tracking, geometry, control arm bushes, suspension issues, you know? I mean you'd think at least one chap would have a clue, or are they all a la carte chimps chez le propellored network?
I'm getting really peed off with this now.
Car's just been to the dealer, all wheels checked for deformations, apparently all fine, rear control arm replaced but all other suspension parts ok.
They rebalanced the rear wheels but at indicated cruising speeds of 70-80 there is a pronounced, minor but continuous wobble through the wheel.
Kwik Fit just rechecked the fronts and they are spot on, all the tyres virtually new, pressures as per the owner manual.
Something must have worn, perished: I need that soupcon of inspiration that only some time served, "oh, it'll be..." artisans seem to be able to suggest, rather than a la carte, standard issue, off the compuscreen solutions which the dealer YTS brigade only ever seem to deliver.
Doubly annoying is that the car which took me to the dealer this morning was an E46 320d with a similar 90k miles on the odometer but it was the model of total solidity.
Am I the only person to notice this crap because if I can't solve this I'm getting rid: I cannot abide sh1te, unsolid steering but everyones' lack of delivery is driving me nuts! HELP!!!
P.S. Dealer reckoned full geometry check unecessary, were they wright?
Car's just been to the dealer, all wheels checked for deformations, apparently all fine, rear control arm replaced but all other suspension parts ok.
They rebalanced the rear wheels but at indicated cruising speeds of 70-80 there is a pronounced, minor but continuous wobble through the wheel.
Kwik Fit just rechecked the fronts and they are spot on, all the tyres virtually new, pressures as per the owner manual.
Something must have worn, perished: I need that soupcon of inspiration that only some time served, "oh, it'll be..." artisans seem to be able to suggest, rather than a la carte, standard issue, off the compuscreen solutions which the dealer YTS brigade only ever seem to deliver.
Doubly annoying is that the car which took me to the dealer this morning was an E46 320d with a similar 90k miles on the odometer but it was the model of total solidity.
Am I the only person to notice this crap because if I can't solve this I'm getting rid: I cannot abide sh1te, unsolid steering but everyones' lack of delivery is driving me nuts! HELP!!!
P.S. Dealer reckoned full geometry check unecessary, were they wright?
derestrictor said:
I'm getting really peed off with this now.
Car's just been to the dealer, all wheels checked for deformations, apparently all fine, rear control arm replaced but all other suspension parts ok.
They rebalanced the rear wheels but at indicated cruising speeds of 70-80 there is a pronounced, minor but continuous wobble through the wheel.
Kwik Fit just rechecked the fronts and they are spot on, all the tyres virtually new, pressures as per the owner manual.
Something must have worn, perished: I need that soupcon of inspiration that only some time served, "oh, it'll be..." artisans seem to be able to suggest, rather than a la carte, standard issue, off the compuscreen solutions which the dealer YTS brigade only ever seem to deliver.
Doubly annoying is that the car which took me to the dealer this morning was an E46 320d with a similar 90k miles on the odometer but it was the model of total solidity.
Am I the only person to notice this crap because if I can't solve this I'm getting rid: I cannot abide sh1te, unsolid steering but everyones' lack of delivery is driving me nuts! HELP!!!
P.S. Dealer reckoned full geometry check unecessary, were they wright?
had the same thing on mine, turned out to be the brakes discs being slightly warped, not enough to be felt through brake pedal but enough to shake the wheel ever so slightly at about the speed you mention. Car's just been to the dealer, all wheels checked for deformations, apparently all fine, rear control arm replaced but all other suspension parts ok.
They rebalanced the rear wheels but at indicated cruising speeds of 70-80 there is a pronounced, minor but continuous wobble through the wheel.
Kwik Fit just rechecked the fronts and they are spot on, all the tyres virtually new, pressures as per the owner manual.
Something must have worn, perished: I need that soupcon of inspiration that only some time served, "oh, it'll be..." artisans seem to be able to suggest, rather than a la carte, standard issue, off the compuscreen solutions which the dealer YTS brigade only ever seem to deliver.
Doubly annoying is that the car which took me to the dealer this morning was an E46 320d with a similar 90k miles on the odometer but it was the model of total solidity.
Am I the only person to notice this crap because if I can't solve this I'm getting rid: I cannot abide sh1te, unsolid steering but everyones' lack of delivery is driving me nuts! HELP!!!
P.S. Dealer reckoned full geometry check unecessary, were they wright?
maybe? if you / they have'nt checked already.....
Mate,
Just had brand new BMW rear discs/pads and fresh AP setup on the fronts - it ain't this!
I just want to be able to sit at 70-80, on cruise, until my points tally is no longer a loaded pistola at ma heed, feeling the same kind of rock solid straight ahead that any modern car should and certainly seems to exhibit, much less one of this pedigree.
Just tried John Thorney but he must be out hunting serf.
Just had brand new BMW rear discs/pads and fresh AP setup on the fronts - it ain't this!
I just want to be able to sit at 70-80, on cruise, until my points tally is no longer a loaded pistola at ma heed, feeling the same kind of rock solid straight ahead that any modern car should and certainly seems to exhibit, much less one of this pedigree.
Just tried John Thorney but he must be out hunting serf.
derestrictor said:
Mate,
Just had brand new BMW rear discs/pads and fresh AP setup on the fronts - it ain't this!
I just want to be able to sit at 70-80, on cruise, until my points tally is no longer a loaded pistola at ma heed, feeling the same kind of rock solid straight ahead that any modern car should and certainly seems to exhibit, much less one of this pedigree.
Just tried John Thorney but he must be out hunting serf.
Just had brand new BMW rear discs/pads and fresh AP setup on the fronts - it ain't this!
I just want to be able to sit at 70-80, on cruise, until my points tally is no longer a loaded pistola at ma heed, feeling the same kind of rock solid straight ahead that any modern car should and certainly seems to exhibit, much less one of this pedigree.
Just tried John Thorney but he must be out hunting serf.
was fitting the AP set up partly to get rid of this problem as well as for beter braking? or did it start after you fitted the APs?
Edited by Pvapour on Saturday 23 June 11:12
No, just for braking. I never quite figured how BMW got away with the jelly masquerading as stoppers with their own efforts but then again, those on the M6 are equally questionable of ability and that's under very mild loading.
Anyway, WHAT do you reckon it could be? Is there a bush somewhere wot's goosed?
Anyway, WHAT do you reckon it could be? Is there a bush somewhere wot's goosed?
Just throwing a few ideas around:
Wasn't clear to me if you had the control arm bushes replaced or checked? If you need to replace them, have a look at powerflex or use the X5 ones (see http://www.bm3w.co.uk/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=... How about the rear anti roll bar brackets? http://www.bm3w.co.uk/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=...
Wasn't clear to me if you had the control arm bushes replaced or checked? If you need to replace them, have a look at powerflex or use the X5 ones (see http://www.bm3w.co.uk/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=... How about the rear anti roll bar brackets? http://www.bm3w.co.uk/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=...
rassi said:
Just throwing a few ideas around:
Wasn't clear to me if you had the control arm bushes replaced or checked? If you need to replace them, have a look at powerflex or use the X5 ones (see http://www.bm3w.co.uk/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=... How about the rear anti roll bar brackets? http://www.bm3w.co.uk/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=...
Rassi, cheers Wasn't clear to me if you had the control arm bushes replaced or checked? If you need to replace them, have a look at powerflex or use the X5 ones (see http://www.bm3w.co.uk/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=... How about the rear anti roll bar brackets? http://www.bm3w.co.uk/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=...
but already done it with as you say, X5 ones.Now what?
derestrictor said:
No, just for braking. I never quite figured how BMW got away with the jelly masquerading as stoppers with their own efforts but then again, those on the M6 are equally questionable of ability and that's under very mild loading.
Anyway, WHAT do you reckon it could be? Is there a bush somewhere wot's goosed?
duno why I posted what I did, you said play in the steering, i read it as a wobble, must be the pain killers I'm on & you mentioning the balancing Anyway, WHAT do you reckon it could be? Is there a bush somewhere wot's goosed?
your saying actual play, as if a spline was worn?
unlike the other e39s the M5 has recirculating-ball steering if i remember correctly? which was critisised for a numb feeling dead centre, but I'm guessing you've had the car a while and this is a change in its behaviour?
what about when your parked up? get somebody to hold the front wheel and guage the amount of play between your inputs at the wheel and actual wheel movement.
If you can, maybe put it on some ramps and slide underneath while someone plays with the steering, you'd be amazed at what some 'proffesionlal' mechanics miss, but I'm not sure how exposed all the workings are undernneath the e39 so may not be that easy
Edited by Pvapour on Saturday 23 June 14:02
Pvapour said:
...critisised for a numb feeling dead centre, but I'm guessing you've had the car a while and this is a change in its behaviour?
Numb, would be great! It's mainly manifest through the steering wheel but you can certainly sense a general 'upset' in the feel of the car as it goes: you would swear it to be wheel or tyre related but I'm thinking more and more ito mounting/suspension issues.Pvapour said:
...you'd be amazed at what some 'professional' mechanics miss...
Alas, no...To recap, I'd define it more a vibration, not play or a wobble as such: a kind of ground up effect, trasmitting mainly through the wheel.
Anyone local you could swap alloys/tyres with, just to confirm it's not the balancing? If you're passing Bristol give me a shout.
Also try posting the query on www.m5board.com but with a clearer title, something like "Steering wobble at 65mph?".
Also try posting the query on www.m5board.com but with a clearer title, something like "Steering wobble at 65mph?".
Edited by dazren on Saturday 23 June 14:27
It may be a problem with the tyre not being exactly round, rather than out of balance. This could be due to an imperfection in the tyre itself, or a slightly buckled rim, or dirt trapped between the hub/disc or disc/rim stopping them from sitting exactly true. I would be worth swapping the front wheels + tyres for another similar pair and see if the problem goes away.
It might also be suspension bushes/bearings worn slightly and allowing just enough movement to hit resonance at that particular speed. One way to test for this is to apply very gentle left foot braking for a couple of seconds while the problem is occurring and see if it makes any difference. Emphasis on gentle, you want to just apply a small extra load to the front hubs.
It might also be suspension bushes/bearings worn slightly and allowing just enough movement to hit resonance at that particular speed. One way to test for this is to apply very gentle left foot braking for a couple of seconds while the problem is occurring and see if it makes any difference. Emphasis on gentle, you want to just apply a small extra load to the front hubs.
derestrictor said:
Pvapour said:
...critisised for a numb feeling dead centre, but I'm guessing you've had the car a while and this is a change in its behaviour?
Numb, would be great! It's mainly manifest through the steering wheel but you can certainly sense a general 'upset' in the feel of the car as it goes: you would swear it to be wheel or tyre related but I'm thinking more and more ito mounting/suspension issues.Pvapour said:
...you'd be amazed at what some 'professional' mechanics miss...
Alas, no...To recap, I'd define it more a vibration, not play or a wobble as such: a kind of ground up effect, trasmitting mainly through the wheel.
1) Slight buckle in wheel (they were prone to this like the R6)
2) deformed tyre?
3) pads shifting around in the APs? (my APs had no form of spring to hold pads firm)
I'll think some more......
Cheers, GreenV8S - some cunning thoughts, will check out that braking test.
The wheels have been inspected and passed by the dealer (could still be wrong?) but I suppose the (new) tyres could have a deformation.
Daz: could we hook up at some point and try a wheel interchange? {The salad would be on me, of course!
}
I still fancy the wear and tear re mountings, bushes & bearings thing: I just don't think the mechanics check these things.
The bloke from the dealer is ringing me on Monday so I'll give them a respectable amount of grief, they really should know, should they not?
The wheels have been inspected and passed by the dealer (could still be wrong?) but I suppose the (new) tyres could have a deformation.
Daz: could we hook up at some point and try a wheel interchange? {The salad would be on me, of course!
}I still fancy the wear and tear re mountings, bushes & bearings thing: I just don't think the mechanics check these things.
The bloke from the dealer is ringing me on Monday so I'll give them a respectable amount of grief, they really should know, should they not?
Gassing Station | M Power | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff