Debunking the 'you must have sat nav & 19s' myth
Discussion
A few posters have recently asked for advice when buying an M3.
The usual fashion jockeys have responded with:
"You must have sat nav and 19s (whether you want them or not) or you'll get hammered on re-sale."
I don't accept this argument is necessarily true of older cars (where condition/mileage is much more important), BUT LET"S ASSUME IT IS!
If a car that would be £30k is 10% cheaper because it has no sat nav/19s YOU SAVE £3k.
When you sell two years later, the car that would have been worth £20k is 10% cheaper, so you 'lose' £2k.
£3k saving less £2k loss = £1k SAVING!
The moral of the story is:
If you don't want fitted sat nav because Tom Tom is cheaper and better
and if you don't want 19s because the ride/handling is worse and they look tarty
DON"T HAVE THEM, AND YOU'LL SAVE MONEY WHEN BUYING AND BE A GRAND BETTER OFF WHEN SELLING!
The usual fashion jockeys have responded with:
"You must have sat nav and 19s (whether you want them or not) or you'll get hammered on re-sale."
I don't accept this argument is necessarily true of older cars (where condition/mileage is much more important), BUT LET"S ASSUME IT IS!
If a car that would be £30k is 10% cheaper because it has no sat nav/19s YOU SAVE £3k.
When you sell two years later, the car that would have been worth £20k is 10% cheaper, so you 'lose' £2k.
£3k saving less £2k loss = £1k SAVING!
The moral of the story is:
If you don't want fitted sat nav because Tom Tom is cheaper and better
and if you don't want 19s because the ride/handling is worse and they look tarty
DON"T HAVE THEM, AND YOU'LL SAVE MONEY WHEN BUYING AND BE A GRAND BETTER OFF WHEN SELLING!
Edited by Deutscher on Thursday 14th June 16:31
Deutscher said:
A few posters have recently asked for advice when buying an M3.
The usual fashion jockeys have responded with:
"You must have sat nav and 19s (whether you want them or not) or you'll get hammered on re-sale."
I don't accept this argument is necessarily true of older cars (where condition/mileage is much more important), BUT LET"S ASSUME IT IS!
If a car that would be £30k is 10% cheaper because it has no sat nav/19s YOU SAVE £3k.
When you sell two years later, the car that would have been worth £20k is 10% cheaper, so you 'lose' £2k.
£3k saving less £2k loss = £1k SAVING!
The moral of the story is:
If you don't want fitted sat nav because Tom Tom is cheaper and better
and if you don't want 19s because the ride/handling is worse and they look tarty
DON"T HAVE THEM, AND YOU'LL SAVE MONEY WHEN BUYING AND BE A GRAND BETTER OFF WHEN SELLING!
And the same applies to going to Dealers, for Dealer Service history. Yes, it might add a couple of quid to the value by going to the dealer, buy not as much as the cost of dealer servicing in the fast place...The usual fashion jockeys have responded with:
"You must have sat nav and 19s (whether you want them or not) or you'll get hammered on re-sale."
I don't accept this argument is necessarily true of older cars (where condition/mileage is much more important), BUT LET"S ASSUME IT IS!
If a car that would be £30k is 10% cheaper because it has no sat nav/19s YOU SAVE £3k.
When you sell two years later, the car that would have been worth £20k is 10% cheaper, so you 'lose' £2k.
£3k saving less £2k loss = £1k SAVING!
The moral of the story is:
If you don't want fitted sat nav because Tom Tom is cheaper and better
and if you don't want 19s because the ride/handling is worse and they look tarty
DON"T HAVE THEM, AND YOU'LL SAVE MONEY WHEN BUYING AND BE A GRAND BETTER OFF WHEN SELLING!
Too many company car drivers who have no clue about wheel geometry were conned into big wheels. Thus many have the 19" rims. Also dealers persuaded people to buy sat nav from new, not knowing that portable units were going to sell at around 27,000 units a month in 2007!!
Too many people buy cars from sharp salesmen and have little to no experience of engineering and selling second hand....ie back to a leasing company or on finance.
Finally for the first 3 years or through the warranty life FSH is important, but after that a specialist will do more to keep a car in good shape than any main dealer.....just ask owners of cars with 70k plus miles under their wheels.
Too many people buy cars from sharp salesmen and have little to no experience of engineering and selling second hand....ie back to a leasing company or on finance.
Finally for the first 3 years or through the warranty life FSH is important, but after that a specialist will do more to keep a car in good shape than any main dealer.....just ask owners of cars with 70k plus miles under their wheels.
Clearly the 19's negatively affect road handling.
Shame BMW didn't realise this, or do the maths with their best handling car to date in many eyes, the M3 CSL (only comes with 19's, either twin spoke, or CSL variant).
Dang. If only those Germans had put 18's on, the CSL would have been EVEN better. I can't beleive they missed that, I mean, LOLZ!!!111!!!
The rolling circumference of the 19's isnt vastly different to the 18's with higher profile tyres on. People should be worried about weight + tyre choice (I dont know the weight of the 18's+tyre comapred to teh 19's, but I Guess they'd be lighter than the twin spokes, and heavier than the CSLs). I would concede that on paper that 18's would have a bit more compliance and perhaps soak up a pot holed rubbish back road better than the 19's (though I have not A/B'd them), depends if thats what you like I suppose.
Still, those Citroens soak up bumps like nothing else on the road with that fangled air suspension, perhaps you should consider another marque?
If sat nav and 19's arent on your list of must haves, perfect. As said youll be able to barter like a madman and get a great deal (in fact 18's hurt resale so much, I've seen guys get M3's with 18's, and slapping some new CSLs on with rubber for less than a similar speccd M3 with 19's on as-is. You can really get 1.5K off because of 18's if you try hard and they are low on rubber.).
Still, I'd rather have my Nav, and my 19's, as they make the car that bit more special for me. I know that come resale I'll have more people interested than without. If I'd not wanted NAV or a sunroof, the CSL would have been a much cheaper ownership proposition (though if I'd known that back then, I'd have got a CSL and a Tom Tom
)
I guess what I'm getting at, is if you don't want them, and get a newer, lower milage car for the same price as a loaded one, that is great. Don't try to justify to yourself that 18's are a vastly better drive, and the tom tom is better than the OEM nav, that is not the point at all.
besides in 3 years time when these beasts are 7 years old, people will be buying on condition, not the presence of heated seats, so just buy the car that is the best condition IMO, be it slightly older with some toys, or a youngun pretty low spec - condition is the best way to guarantee your best return come offloading.
Stu
Shame BMW didn't realise this, or do the maths with their best handling car to date in many eyes, the M3 CSL (only comes with 19's, either twin spoke, or CSL variant).
Dang. If only those Germans had put 18's on, the CSL would have been EVEN better. I can't beleive they missed that, I mean, LOLZ!!!111!!!
The rolling circumference of the 19's isnt vastly different to the 18's with higher profile tyres on. People should be worried about weight + tyre choice (I dont know the weight of the 18's+tyre comapred to teh 19's, but I Guess they'd be lighter than the twin spokes, and heavier than the CSLs). I would concede that on paper that 18's would have a bit more compliance and perhaps soak up a pot holed rubbish back road better than the 19's (though I have not A/B'd them), depends if thats what you like I suppose.
Still, those Citroens soak up bumps like nothing else on the road with that fangled air suspension, perhaps you should consider another marque?
If sat nav and 19's arent on your list of must haves, perfect. As said youll be able to barter like a madman and get a great deal (in fact 18's hurt resale so much, I've seen guys get M3's with 18's, and slapping some new CSLs on with rubber for less than a similar speccd M3 with 19's on as-is. You can really get 1.5K off because of 18's if you try hard and they are low on rubber.).
Still, I'd rather have my Nav, and my 19's, as they make the car that bit more special for me. I know that come resale I'll have more people interested than without. If I'd not wanted NAV or a sunroof, the CSL would have been a much cheaper ownership proposition (though if I'd known that back then, I'd have got a CSL and a Tom Tom
)I guess what I'm getting at, is if you don't want them, and get a newer, lower milage car for the same price as a loaded one, that is great. Don't try to justify to yourself that 18's are a vastly better drive, and the tom tom is better than the OEM nav, that is not the point at all.
besides in 3 years time when these beasts are 7 years old, people will be buying on condition, not the presence of heated seats, so just buy the car that is the best condition IMO, be it slightly older with some toys, or a youngun pretty low spec - condition is the best way to guarantee your best return come offloading.
Stu
Edited by stuthemong on Friday 15th June 00:27
Edited by stuthemong on Friday 15th June 00:28
Deutscher said:
A few posters have recently asked for advice when buying an M3.
The usual fashion jockeys have responded with:
"You must have sat nav and 19s (whether you want them or not) or you'll get hammered on re-sale."
I don't accept this argument is necessarily true of older cars (where condition/mileage is much more important), BUT LET"S ASSUME IT IS!
If a car that would be £30k is 10% cheaper because it has no sat nav/19s YOU SAVE £3k.
When you sell two years later, the car that would have been worth £20k is 10% cheaper, so you 'lose' £2k.
£3k saving less £2k loss = £1k SAVING!
The moral of the story is:
If you don't want fitted sat nav because Tom Tom is cheaper and better
and if you don't want 19s because the ride/handling is worse and they look tarty
DON"T HAVE THEM, AND YOU'LL SAVE MONEY WHEN BUYING AND BE A GRAND BETTER OFF WHEN SELLING!
I assume that you bought a car without sat nav & 19's then? The usual fashion jockeys have responded with:
"You must have sat nav and 19s (whether you want them or not) or you'll get hammered on re-sale."
I don't accept this argument is necessarily true of older cars (where condition/mileage is much more important), BUT LET"S ASSUME IT IS!
If a car that would be £30k is 10% cheaper because it has no sat nav/19s YOU SAVE £3k.
When you sell two years later, the car that would have been worth £20k is 10% cheaper, so you 'lose' £2k.
£3k saving less £2k loss = £1k SAVING!
The moral of the story is:
If you don't want fitted sat nav because Tom Tom is cheaper and better
and if you don't want 19s because the ride/handling is worse and they look tarty
DON"T HAVE THEM, AND YOU'LL SAVE MONEY WHEN BUYING AND BE A GRAND BETTER OFF WHEN SELLING!
Edited by Deutscher on Thursday 14th June 16:31
darreni said:
Deutscher said:
A few posters have recently asked for advice when buying an M3.
The usual fashion jockeys have responded with:
"You must have sat nav and 19s (whether you want them or not) or you'll get hammered on re-sale."
I don't accept this argument is necessarily true of older cars (where condition/mileage is much more important), BUT LET"S ASSUME IT IS!
If a car that would be £30k is 10% cheaper because it has no sat nav/19s YOU SAVE £3k.
When you sell two years later, the car that would have been worth £20k is 10% cheaper, so you 'lose' £2k.
£3k saving less £2k loss = £1k SAVING!
The moral of the story is:
If you don't want fitted sat nav because Tom Tom is cheaper and better
and if you don't want 19s because the ride/handling is worse and they look tarty
DON"T HAVE THEM, AND YOU'LL SAVE MONEY WHEN BUYING AND BE A GRAND BETTER OFF WHEN SELLING!
I assume that you bought a car without sat nav & 19's then? The usual fashion jockeys have responded with:
"You must have sat nav and 19s (whether you want them or not) or you'll get hammered on re-sale."
I don't accept this argument is necessarily true of older cars (where condition/mileage is much more important), BUT LET"S ASSUME IT IS!
If a car that would be £30k is 10% cheaper because it has no sat nav/19s YOU SAVE £3k.
When you sell two years later, the car that would have been worth £20k is 10% cheaper, so you 'lose' £2k.
£3k saving less £2k loss = £1k SAVING!
The moral of the story is:
If you don't want fitted sat nav because Tom Tom is cheaper and better
and if you don't want 19s because the ride/handling is worse and they look tarty
DON"T HAVE THEM, AND YOU'LL SAVE MONEY WHEN BUYING AND BE A GRAND BETTER OFF WHEN SELLING!
Edited by Deutscher on Thursday 14th June 16:31
I've had mine since new. Not having sat nav and 19s (which I didn't want) saved me £4k+.
Five years on are you seriously saying my superb, one-owner, low-mileage car is worth £4k less than an equivalent with sat nav and 19s?
I think not!!
(Also, I briefly considered selling and received an immediate cash offer from a guy who said he'd been looking high and low in a market cluttered with 19s to find a car with 18s as he believed (correctly) the ride was better!)
Point proved!!
Five years on are you seriously saying my superb, one-owner, low-mileage car is worth £4k less than an equivalent with sat nav and 19s?
I think not!!
(Also, I briefly considered selling and received an immediate cash offer from a guy who said he'd been looking high and low in a market cluttered with 19s to find a car with 18s as he believed (correctly) the ride was better!)
Point proved!!
Deutscher said:
I've had mine since new. Not having sat nav and 19s (which I didn't want) saved me £4k+.
Five years on are you seriously saying my superb, one-owner, low-mileage car is worth £4k less than an equivalent with sat nav and 19s?
I think not!!
(Also, I briefly considered selling and received an immediate cash offer from a guy who said he'd been looking high and low in a market cluttered with 19s to find a car with 18s as he believed (correctly) the ride was better!)
Point proved!!
So are you saying that your 4k saving by not having sat nav & 19's has been recouped & the car now books at the same level the as one with?Five years on are you seriously saying my superb, one-owner, low-mileage car is worth £4k less than an equivalent with sat nav and 19s?
I think not!!
(Also, I briefly considered selling and received an immediate cash offer from a guy who said he'd been looking high and low in a market cluttered with 19s to find a car with 18s as he believed (correctly) the ride was better!)
Point proved!!
Edited by darreni on Friday 15th June 09:05
I went to my local BMW garage in Reading (Cooper) and they had an M3 with 18" and to be honest I still thought it looked good in the flesh. If there werent so many around with 19" wheels you wouldnt notice so much.
As someone who is hoping to be considering an M3 I have now been considering cars with 18" wheels because at the end of the day I would rather have a perfect car with 18" wheels than getting one with 19" but not such good condition.
As an ex 968 owner my moto was always "buy on condition".
As someone who is hoping to be considering an M3 I have now been considering cars with 18" wheels because at the end of the day I would rather have a perfect car with 18" wheels than getting one with 19" but not such good condition.
As an ex 968 owner my moto was always "buy on condition".
darreni said:
So are you saying that your 4k saving by not having sat nav & 19's has been recouped & the car now books at the same level the as one with?
I think even the most ardent fans of sat nav and 19s would say that a five-year old car fitted with same is only worth £1.5k more, so I've saved/they've lost £2.5k.Marki said:
Deutscher said:
If you don't want fitted sat nav because Tom Tom is cheaper and better
How can you possibly say a tomtom which you have to fit and remove for fear of it being nicked is better than an integrated factory fit sat nav Yes, taking the Tom Tom in and out is a pain, but it is far, far better in terms of usability.
Marki said:
Deutscher said:
If you don't want fitted sat nav because Tom Tom is cheaper and better
How can you possibly say a tomtom which you have to fit and remove for fear of it being nicked is better than an integrated factory fit sat nav I've had both and the Tom Tom is much more user friendly. And it fits in the glove box.
I did like the look of the dash in my previous M3 with the wide screen sat nav in there but I wouldn't give +£2k for it.
The 19" wheels will handle better than the 18"s, less tyre roll etc. but that is what you get with a sports car. If you want comfort the buy a Bentley.
True, the cost of these "Luxury options" will depreciate faster than the car itself. But if you want them you have to pay. I have a CSL now so the above were not really an option but if I was to buy again and sat nav was still an option I wouldn't bother with it unless it was £500 or less. The wheels yes, as this will improve traction and handling.
This wheel business seems to be becoming a hot topic of late. In the UK there's an awful lot of peer pressure to get the biggest wheels possible, simply by virtue of them being bigger and thus better than the Jones' next door.
The E46 M3 is a pretty good example of the problem. I think it's pretty apparent that the 18's ride better and provide more linear and predictable handling on the road. I also think the styling is more attractive and appropriate for the car (imagine if both designs were 19", I'm sure most would go for the deep-dished 18" design), and then there's the additonal cost of tyres to factor in. And when you start considering cars shod with the thrice-cursed-runflats the problem only gets worse!
The E46 M3 is a pretty good example of the problem. I think it's pretty apparent that the 18's ride better and provide more linear and predictable handling on the road. I also think the styling is more attractive and appropriate for the car (imagine if both designs were 19", I'm sure most would go for the deep-dished 18" design), and then there's the additonal cost of tyres to factor in. And when you start considering cars shod with the thrice-cursed-runflats the problem only gets worse!
Andrew D said:
This wheel business seems to be becoming a hot topic of late. In the UK there's an awful lot of peer pressure to get the biggest wheels possible, simply by virtue of them being bigger and thus better than the Jones' next door.
The E46 M3 is a pretty good example of the problem. I think it's pretty apparent that the 18's ride better and provide more linear and predictable handling on the road. I also think the styling is more attractive and appropriate for the car (imagine if both designs were 19", I'm sure most would go for the deep-dished 18" design), and then there's the additonal cost of tyres to factor in. And when you start considering cars shod with the thrice-cursed-runflats the problem only gets worse!
I dont think the M3 was ever supplied with runflats.The E46 M3 is a pretty good example of the problem. I think it's pretty apparent that the 18's ride better and provide more linear and predictable handling on the road. I also think the styling is more attractive and appropriate for the car (imagine if both designs were 19", I'm sure most would go for the deep-dished 18" design), and then there's the additonal cost of tyres to factor in. And when you start considering cars shod with the thrice-cursed-runflats the problem only gets worse!
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