E39 M5 - Ownership Differences from E36 M3
Discussion
Hi,
I recently posted a thread asking for advice on an E36 M3 as I'm looking to replace my current company car. However, my partner has just given birth to my first child, and so whilst up at the early hours this morning, starting the idea of looking into the costs etc of an M5, over those of an M3, to see if it really is a viable proposition, or just a dream I cannot yet realise.
So, I'd be interested in owners opinions, on running costs etc. My reasoning behind this consideration is the difference in size (now that junior is here, I've suddenly realised the amount of stuff that needs lugging around), it is newer, more modern etc, and the engine technically should be good for a fair few miles?
Finally, I'm 27 years old, and had always seen the M5 as an older mans car, so have never really considered it until now, but the idea now really appeals. Do you think I'm too young to own such a car, and is it really as good as everyone says?
Anyway, appreciate any comments,
Cheers
Dan
I recently posted a thread asking for advice on an E36 M3 as I'm looking to replace my current company car. However, my partner has just given birth to my first child, and so whilst up at the early hours this morning, starting the idea of looking into the costs etc of an M5, over those of an M3, to see if it really is a viable proposition, or just a dream I cannot yet realise.
So, I'd be interested in owners opinions, on running costs etc. My reasoning behind this consideration is the difference in size (now that junior is here, I've suddenly realised the amount of stuff that needs lugging around), it is newer, more modern etc, and the engine technically should be good for a fair few miles?
Finally, I'm 27 years old, and had always seen the M5 as an older mans car, so have never really considered it until now, but the idea now really appeals. Do you think I'm too young to own such a car, and is it really as good as everyone says?
Anyway, appreciate any comments,
Cheers
Dan
Edited by knowlesi on Wednesday 6th June 09:56
E39 M5's are expensive cars to run, if used every day. Fuel costs, tyres, clutches, Vanos worries if not covered by a warranty and insurance. As a driving experience they cannot be bettered for a car if its size and power. However the steering is weak, it lacks feel, the gear change can be a little cumbersome and the throttle adjustment is savage. They are well built, not too expensive to buy and lots of good independent garages to forge relationships with. However, the car is a saloon and you may need an estate....looked at an Audi or a 540 Touring....similar drive upto 8/10th, an auto box and a huge rear boot!!
E39 M5 prices are falling, the available selection is good, but how much do you want to spend each year on running the car and what mileage will you be doing?
On an e39 and oil service is around £135, an Inspection 1 is around £520 and an Inspection 2 is around £580. New front pads and disks are around £450, and may last you 6,000 miles!! Clutches cost around £450 and then you need to think about tyres and any upgrades!!!
BMW Car magazine have just bought a car and will be using it daily, so pick up a copy and see what the bills are as the miles increase. Also have a look on www.m5board.com and go into the E39 forum to see what others have experienced.
On an e39 and oil service is around £135, an Inspection 1 is around £520 and an Inspection 2 is around £580. New front pads and disks are around £450, and may last you 6,000 miles!! Clutches cost around £450 and then you need to think about tyres and any upgrades!!!
BMW Car magazine have just bought a car and will be using it daily, so pick up a copy and see what the bills are as the miles increase. Also have a look on www.m5board.com and go into the E39 forum to see what others have experienced.
knowlesi said:
Finally, I'm 27 years old, and had always seen the M5 as an older mans car, so have never really considered it until now, but the idea now really appeals. Do you think I'm too young to own such a car, and is it really as good as everyone says?
Ive been thinking the same, Im even younger yet am leaning towards an E39 ///M. It just seems to be the fastest, most practical, reliable, safest and fun car you can buy for ~£15K. Okay it does not have the crazy look of a tvr, but it (can) have the sound and will last a fair bit longer!And these stupid servicing costs just make me thankful to be able to do the work myself, speaking of which, does the M5 have any difficult/fiddley/fancy servicing requirements? (the E46 M3s valve clearance check comes to mind)
I do almost all the work on my 740i, so the M5 (hopefully) shouldn't be too much trouble.
belleair302 said:
E39 M5's are expensive cars to run, if used every day. Fuel costs, tyres, clutches, Vanos worries if not covered by a warranty and insurance. As a driving experience they cannot be bettered for a car if its size and power. However the steering is weak, it lacks feel, the gear change can be a little cumbersome and the throttle adjustment is savage. They are well built, not too expensive to buy and lots of good independent garages to forge relationships with. However, the car is a saloon and you may need an estate....looked at an Audi or a 540 Touring....similar drive upto 8/10th, an auto box and a huge rear boot!!
I've owned both and have to say I dont agree with much of this.Expensive to run? yes!!
(partic fuel)'Clutches' - hmm not sure they are such a consumable - mines had one clutch in 86k. I know at least 5 other M5 drivers who've had one clutch between them in at least 50k miles.
Insurance - no worse than an M3
Vanos worries - EVO M3's also carry this
Steering - I wouldnt describe as weak - in fact the harder you push the car the better steering response and feel IMHO.
Gear change - like all M's it can be baulky when cold but a SSK certainly tweaks it up nicely and increases response.
'Savage' throttle adjustment????????? Err. Sorry but do you have very heavy feet??
Personally I used to think of an M5 as an old mans car too - but having got one I would describe it as a stunning machine. Its capable of keeping up with 'proper' sports cars (911's/TVR's) and not just in a straight line, yet it delivers easy round town and cruising driving too.
Beats the hell out of E36 M3's in my book.
All IMHO of course!!!
TBH I look back on my E39 M5 as a bit of a disappointment. Yes, it did a lot of jobs quite well and transported us & two kids on lots of long journeys and holidays, etc. etc.
But ..
ps. My old E36 M3, however, I remember fondly ..
But ..
- it was less reliable than my Cerbera - I had both for around 3 years and they were both used virtually every day - the M5 needed many more trips to dealers than the Cerb and it was the BMW we always feared would leave us stranded.
- it cost a lot to run - it eats tyres and the alloys are made of soft cheese; ebay found a home for two alloys bent by driving down a hole in the road in the space of 6 months.
- the warranty was a lifesaver whilst it was a reasonable £600 or so - it saved £12K when they had to replace the block due to nikasil issues - but I understand this is very expensive now.
- whenever I took it out for a blast I just came back thinking (a) it's just too heavy and (b) that damn traction control is too aggressive. Turn it off and you're tailsliding everywhere (ok you might like it, but it gets a bit annoying after a while), turn it on and it's so harsh you just judder off down the road very slowly until you straighten the steering.
- driving in traffic I found fairly hard - the gearchange isn't great - iirc 1st gear is very tall - and I remember a throttle which was too sensitive in 'sport' but too delayed in 'normal'.
- the 528i sport I had beforehand was actually more astonishing - the handling of that car was deeply impressive - the extra power of the M5 just really made me yearn for a real sports car.
ps. My old E36 M3, however, I remember fondly ..
Trellis said:
belleair302 said:
E39 M5's are expensive cars to run, if used every day. Fuel costs, tyres, clutches, Vanos worries if not covered by a warranty and insurance. As a driving experience they cannot be bettered for a car if its size and power. However the steering is weak, it lacks feel, the gear change can be a little cumbersome and the throttle adjustment is savage. They are well built, not too expensive to buy and lots of good independent garages to forge relationships with. However, the car is a saloon and you may need an estate....looked at an Audi or a 540 Touring....similar drive upto 8/10th, an auto box and a huge rear boot!!
I've owned both and have to say I dont agree with much of this.Expensive to run? yes!!
(partic fuel)'Clutches' - hmm not sure they are such a consumable - mines had one clutch in 86k. I know at least 5 other M5 drivers who've had one clutch between them in at least 50k miles.
Insurance - no worse than an M3
Vanos worries - EVO M3's also carry this
Steering - I wouldnt describe as weak - in fact the harder you push the car the better steering response and feel IMHO.
Gear change - like all M's it can be baulky when cold but a SSK certainly tweaks it up nicely and increases response.
'Savage' throttle adjustment????????? Err. Sorry but do you have very heavy feet??
Personally I used to think of an M5 as an old mans car too - but having got one I would describe it as a stunning machine. Its capable of keeping up with 'proper' sports cars (911's/TVR's) and not just in a straight line, yet it delivers easy round town and cruising driving too.
Beats the hell out of E36 M3's in my book.
All IMHO of course!!!
The M5 is heavy on fuel, there's no getting away from that, but in my experience everything else is cheaper than the M3.
The M5 costs less to service than the M3, probably because the valve clearances don't need done, and goes twice as long between services, insurance is also cheaper.
My friend's car did 78,000 miles on the original clutch, and unless you drive very hard, then it's perfectly possible to get 20,000 miles or more from a set of tyres.
The early cars can use a bit of oil, but that was cured on the facelifted cars from late 2000 on.
The vanos problem is a bit overhyped IMO. There was another thread about this recently, and I'm sure Blackspider said that in all his years as a BMW mechanic, he had replaced the vanos units on only one E39 M5. Hopefully he'll correct me if I'm wrong on that.
Edited by M5Dave on Thursday 7th June 01:57
Edited by M5Dave on Thursday 7th June 01:58
Some interesting views there futie, but at least it balances the argument out a little.
For me fuel isn't so much of a problem as it is paid for by my company (though it won't cover 14mpg!!) But I am out of the big smoke up in the Greater Manchester area.
I'm suprised that people are saying the Insurance is cheaper, need to look into that.
There does seem to be a vast difference in prices on here, and some recent threads have hinted at this too, but I'm budgeting to spend between 14-15k max, depending on mileage/condition & service history etc.
My mileage is roughly 10-12k pa & suppose wouldn't want to spend anymore than £1500 pa on maintenance (preferrably half that if possible).
I get the impression from looking at photos of the car that the interior is huge, and that the gearlever is fairly far away from the driver - for those who own M5's is this the case, or does it feel 'right' - sporty if you like?
I suppose I need to look a bit further and go and take 1 for a test drive to see if it is definitely for me.
Thanks to all for the responses so far. Always a great place to get honest opinions and advice.
Dan
For me fuel isn't so much of a problem as it is paid for by my company (though it won't cover 14mpg!!) But I am out of the big smoke up in the Greater Manchester area.
I'm suprised that people are saying the Insurance is cheaper, need to look into that.
There does seem to be a vast difference in prices on here, and some recent threads have hinted at this too, but I'm budgeting to spend between 14-15k max, depending on mileage/condition & service history etc.
My mileage is roughly 10-12k pa & suppose wouldn't want to spend anymore than £1500 pa on maintenance (preferrably half that if possible).
I get the impression from looking at photos of the car that the interior is huge, and that the gearlever is fairly far away from the driver - for those who own M5's is this the case, or does it feel 'right' - sporty if you like?
I suppose I need to look a bit further and go and take 1 for a test drive to see if it is definitely for me.
Thanks to all for the responses so far. Always a great place to get honest opinions and advice.
Dan
To be honest, unless you thrash the car, or constantly sit in heavy traffic, you'll do much better than 14mpg. I get about 21-22mpg in mixed driving.
I think the insurance companies regard the M5 as less of a risk than the M3, probably because it's seen as more of a family car. There are a number of companies, Norwich Union for example, who refuse to cover M3s but will cover M5s.
I find the driving position of the M5 pretty similar to that of the M3, all the controls are within easy reach.
I think the insurance companies regard the M5 as less of a risk than the M3, probably because it's seen as more of a family car. There are a number of companies, Norwich Union for example, who refuse to cover M3s but will cover M5s.
I find the driving position of the M5 pretty similar to that of the M3, all the controls are within easy reach.
knowlesi said:
I get the impression from looking at photos of the car that the interior is huge, and that the gearlever is fairly far away from the driver - for those who own M5's is this the case, or does it feel 'right' - sporty if you like?
Dan
I'm 6' and found it supremely comfortable, like it had been tailoredDan
knowlesi said:
I get the impression from looking at photos of the car that the interior is huge, and that the gearlever is fairly far away from the driver - for those who own M5's is this the case, or does it feel 'right' - sporty if you like?
Dan
The interior is the same size as any later 90's 5 series. Decent but not cavernous. The gearstick is fine where it is, just be aware it can feel notchy (particularly 1st and 2nd) so give the synchros time to do their thing when you take a test drive.Dan
Had my car 2years, doing 7k miles pa and have averaged 18.5mpg. If I stick to town driving I get about 16mpg, do a long motorway run at 80 mph and I easily get 26mpg.
DAZ
Edited by dazren on Thursday 7th June 15:51
If i may be so bold....... Forums can and are a great source of info, but you can get a bit paranoid reading peoples woes with vehicles, you hardly ever hear people talking of there thousands and thousands of trouble free miles only when they have some aggro do they reach for the keyboard to find a solution or share their stories. You like the M5 ? Go buy an M5 ! I did and i love it, 20-25 gallon and you can watch countdown on the tv while stuck in traffic on the M25 ..............BEAUTIFUL !!
Trellis said:
belleair302 said:
E39 M5's are expensive cars to run, if used every day. Fuel costs, tyres, clutches, Vanos worries if not covered by a warranty and insurance. As a driving experience they cannot be bettered for a car if its size and power. However the steering is weak, it lacks feel, the gear change can be a little cumbersome and the throttle adjustment is savage. They are well built, not too expensive to buy and lots of good independent garages to forge relationships with. However, the car is a saloon and you may need an estate....looked at an Audi or a 540 Touring....similar drive upto 8/10th, an auto box and a huge rear boot!!
I've owned both and have to say I dont agree with much of this.Expensive to run? yes!!
(partic fuel)'Clutches' - hmm not sure they are such a consumable - mines had one clutch in 86k. I know at least 5 other M5 drivers who've had one clutch between them in at least 50k miles.
Insurance - no worse than an M3
Vanos worries - EVO M3's also carry this
Steering - I wouldnt describe as weak - in fact the harder you push the car the better steering response and feel IMHO.
Gear change - like all M's it can be baulky when cold but a SSK certainly tweaks it up nicely and increases response.
'Savage' throttle adjustment????????? Err. Sorry but do you have very heavy feet??
Personally I used to think of an M5 as an old mans car too - but having got one I would describe it as a stunning machine. Its capable of keeping up with 'proper' sports cars (911's/TVR's) and not just in a straight line, yet it delivers easy round town and cruising driving too.
Beats the hell out of E36 M3's in my book.
All IMHO of course!!!
belleair302 said:
BMW Car magazine have just bought a car and will be using it daily, so pick up a copy and see what the bills are as the miles increase. Also have a look on www.m5board.com and go into the E39 forum to see what others have experienced.
Cheers Belleair re the BMW magazine heads up, I've been out and bought a copy today. They picked that up pretty cheap with warranty, although it is a T reg with 52K on the clock from a main dealer.My main concern was the difference in costs between the E36 M3, as I'd weighed them up, and found they were affordable. Just gotta keep my eye out for the perfect Silverstone M5!!
What are the tyre details front & rear/costs per corner for the M5 by the way?
I think it's M5Dave who mentions a facelift after 2000, can anyone point me in the right direction of exactly what changes were made please. Would I be right to think that the post facelift cars are more reliable/better/sought after?
Edited by knowlesi on Thursday 7th June 23:16
knowlesi said:
What are the tyre details front & rear/costs per corner for the M5 by the way?
I think it's M5Dave who mentions a facelift after 2000, can anyone point me in the right direction of exactly what changes were made please. Would I be right to think that the post facelift cars are more reliable/better/sought after?
From memory the last set of rears cost me £370. Fronts were about £260 for the two.I think it's M5Dave who mentions a facelift after 2000, can anyone point me in the right direction of exactly what changes were made please. Would I be right to think that the post facelift cars are more reliable/better/sought after?
2001 model year cars were what is known as the "facelift" cars. Came with Angel eye headlights, different steering wheel, some engine internal differences and when Nav was specced it is widescreen.
I keep a note of everything I spend on my car which can be seen by clicking on the car in my profile.
Edited by dazren on Thursday 7th June 23:44
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