Viewing M5 (e39) today......
Discussion
Hello everyone,
I'm a new member here on pistonheads. I felt compelled to write on the forum after meeting so many interesting and enthusiastic people at last Saturday's Inverness meet for the quasi-scottish gumball adventure. But more so because I am going to view a M5 today with the intention of purchasing it.
The car is a X reg but is a face lifted model with angel eyes, later steering wheel, front parking sensors etc. Has done 54,000 miles and has just had its inspection II done. The car was owned from new by a local man (car dealer story) in his 60's. The car has been serviced at John Clarks the local BMW garage (Aberdeen) its whole life including getting its 1200 mile service well within that period.
Its full of receipts including the original purchase receipt and dealer card from the garage in germany where it was purchased to UK spec. I drove it yesterday and was impressed but that maybe just because it was my first M5 exerience! I have driven a e46 m3 before and owned a 328 sport coupe but this was a different kind of animal
The car is going through its MOT today and is mine for the taking this evening should I want (i think i do).
I am fairly sold on the car but I was wanting your opinions on the fact that it is still on its orginal clutch and the vanos is slightly noisy for maybe a second or so on startup then immediately dissappears. I have heard that this is normal though?
Anyway he is asking for £17k.
Also when the Garage took the car in part exchange the DSC didn't switch off. Diagnostics were done but no gremlin found then returning to the simple approach the fuse box was checked and it was missing. On insertion it gladly switched off. So presuming all these stories are true it sounds like the previous owner didn't hoon it around.
Everything feels tight, no wear, immaculate inside. No comms pack which I also wanted as I have heard bmw's sat nav on the older cars was a bit slow. Tom Tom will do
Any thoughts?
I'm a new member here on pistonheads. I felt compelled to write on the forum after meeting so many interesting and enthusiastic people at last Saturday's Inverness meet for the quasi-scottish gumball adventure. But more so because I am going to view a M5 today with the intention of purchasing it.
The car is a X reg but is a face lifted model with angel eyes, later steering wheel, front parking sensors etc. Has done 54,000 miles and has just had its inspection II done. The car was owned from new by a local man (car dealer story) in his 60's. The car has been serviced at John Clarks the local BMW garage (Aberdeen) its whole life including getting its 1200 mile service well within that period.
Its full of receipts including the original purchase receipt and dealer card from the garage in germany where it was purchased to UK spec. I drove it yesterday and was impressed but that maybe just because it was my first M5 exerience! I have driven a e46 m3 before and owned a 328 sport coupe but this was a different kind of animal
The car is going through its MOT today and is mine for the taking this evening should I want (i think i do).
I am fairly sold on the car but I was wanting your opinions on the fact that it is still on its orginal clutch and the vanos is slightly noisy for maybe a second or so on startup then immediately dissappears. I have heard that this is normal though?
Anyway he is asking for £17k.
Also when the Garage took the car in part exchange the DSC didn't switch off. Diagnostics were done but no gremlin found then returning to the simple approach the fuse box was checked and it was missing. On insertion it gladly switched off. So presuming all these stories are true it sounds like the previous owner didn't hoon it around.
Everything feels tight, no wear, immaculate inside. No comms pack which I also wanted as I have heard bmw's sat nav on the older cars was a bit slow. Tom Tom will do
Any thoughts?
Log onto www.m5board.com and then into the E39 forum to discover everything you want to know.
The clutch is a good sign. The initial second or so of vanos noise is nothing to worry about. The guy is asking well over trade money for it, but I'd suggest biting his arm off at £16k using the lack of comms to get the price down.
My personal opinion is the motorola car mobile kit in my 01 M/Y was crap and now doesn't even work. As for factory nav, it's woefully inadequate in comparison to the latest stuff from Garmin, TomTom etc. Of course the traders will tell you both these factory options are essential for resell, personally I'm more interested in the condition of the car and the colour.
BTW at 54k miles assuming the car has had the BMW warranty renewed each year you might scrape in under the 60k limit for the cheaper M5 warranty at the next renewal? worth clarifying.
My personal opinion is the motorola car mobile kit in my 01 M/Y was crap and now doesn't even work. As for factory nav, it's woefully inadequate in comparison to the latest stuff from Garmin, TomTom etc. Of course the traders will tell you both these factory options are essential for resell, personally I'm more interested in the condition of the car and the colour.
BTW at 54k miles assuming the car has had the BMW warranty renewed each year you might scrape in under the 60k limit for the cheaper M5 warranty at the next renewal? worth clarifying.
Edited by dazren on Tuesday 1st May 17:06
Be a little careful here, good advice earlier on to go on the M5 site.
My car is a 2001 M5 and there is NO initial noise on startup, and that has just gone past 100K!!
On the M5 site is an article on vanos with the engine numbers affected. At about the time of our cars there was a little update done to the vanos which retains the oil pressure better in the vanos when the car is switched off. Luckily my car's engine number was after this had been done, but not by much.
On the earlier cars, on startup the vanous has a low pressure or is starved of oil until pressure has built up. This eventually was thought to be the cause of vanos failure. The rattle in the first few seconds to minutes was an indication of the severity of damage. Nearly dead M5 seemed to have this rattle all the time. BMW denied this at first but I seemed to become a well trodden path on the BMW sites.
I don't want to unduly put you off this car, but I would check the fairly detailed articles on M5board before you buy it. Vanos failures in the cars after this mod were fairly rare.
My car is a 2001 M5 and there is NO initial noise on startup, and that has just gone past 100K!!
On the M5 site is an article on vanos with the engine numbers affected. At about the time of our cars there was a little update done to the vanos which retains the oil pressure better in the vanos when the car is switched off. Luckily my car's engine number was after this had been done, but not by much.
On the earlier cars, on startup the vanous has a low pressure or is starved of oil until pressure has built up. This eventually was thought to be the cause of vanos failure. The rattle in the first few seconds to minutes was an indication of the severity of damage. Nearly dead M5 seemed to have this rattle all the time. BMW denied this at first but I seemed to become a well trodden path on the BMW sites.
I don't want to unduly put you off this car, but I would check the fairly detailed articles on M5board before you buy it. Vanos failures in the cars after this mod were fairly rare.
paoloh said:
I'm a car dealer and trust me, comms makes a huge difference to value and more importantly, saleability!!! People buying top end cars, want all the toys.
Certainly with newish cars, but we are delaing with a car here that is 6/7 years old and ap[pealing to an enthusiast market.
Which gives purchasers of older cars without this stuff have a great opportunity to negotiate lower prices for the cars without the essential extras (often outdated toys) for an otherwise similar car.
If the OP were to buy this car and try and sell it agin in 4 years, I'd have thought purchasers would be more interested in the car condition and service history than a 10 year old satnav system and having to use a 10 year old mobile phone to use the car kit.
DAZ
Edited by dazren on Tuesday 1st May 17:42
I would agree with that, and I would also go on to say I have the navigation system in the BMW, and I have a tomtom on the windscreen. The two systems are chalk and cheese. I would willingly throw the tomtom out of the window if it weren't for the camera database on it.
The reason that the BMW system beats the stuffing out of tomtom, is that the map database is far better done, gyros in the car tell the map system which way the cars turned well before the tomtom has found out from the satellite, and of course the icing on the cake is the traffic update system on the BMW which re-routes you to avoid traffic Jams. Maps with TMS (traffic information system) are readily available to download over the internet, whereas tomtom wants an arm and a leg to upgrade its maps each time.
The comms system on the BMW is actually pretty much invaluable unless your car is a track only tool.
The reason that the BMW system beats the stuffing out of tomtom, is that the map database is far better done, gyros in the car tell the map system which way the cars turned well before the tomtom has found out from the satellite, and of course the icing on the cake is the traffic update system on the BMW which re-routes you to avoid traffic Jams. Maps with TMS (traffic information system) are readily available to download over the internet, whereas tomtom wants an arm and a leg to upgrade its maps each time.
The comms system on the BMW is actually pretty much invaluable unless your car is a track only tool.
Thanks for the advice guys. I'll look into the M5 board VANOS issues. I had a quick glimpse over the forum and learned that the oil pump or whatever it was that was fitted to retain the oil pressure was fitted to cars from Dec 2000 onwards. Unfortunately this car was just before that and doesn't have the mod.
Not sure about the warranty. I guess the Vanos issue isnt a problem if the BMW warranty is still intact as it will be replaced under warranty?
I'll check M5 board but does the Vanos not get noisy over a longer period before it goes caput? I heard a second of noise is just due to the oil and not a worry. sustained noise is very bad. The new E60 M5 certainly has a lot of VANOS noise at startup.
Not sure about the warranty. I guess the Vanos issue isnt a problem if the BMW warranty is still intact as it will be replaced under warranty?
I'll check M5 board but does the Vanos not get noisy over a longer period before it goes caput? I heard a second of noise is just due to the oil and not a worry. sustained noise is very bad. The new E60 M5 certainly has a lot of VANOS noise at startup.
paoloh said:
If you have 2 identical cars, which one sells? the one with comms and people will pay a premium. For example, look at old 7 series. Huge difference in price for the comms pack.
At the same price the car with the toys sell first. As you say, people will pay a premium for the bits, although as the car ages the premium gets smaller. As an alterntive to this there are also people who would rather not pay the premium for the toys and get a little less when it comes to resale further down the line.
Eg buy an E39 M5 now, identical cars except for the must have toys. £15k and £13k. In five years time will the £2k premium have stayed with the car or will it have reduced? What I am getting at is if you are going to use the options hold out till you can get a car with them. If you are not, don't bother, buy the cheaper car but still push for a bargain as it doesn't have the bits.
DAZ
(In 2002 I ordered my 996 without satnav as I was more interested in getting the extra DIN slots necessary for the my garage door system and licence defence armaments control panels! plus of course the ability to update my DIN slot stereo for things such as MP3, bluetooth and more technologically advanced satnav etc (not strictly relevent to the E39 as it doesn't have DIN slot stereo option)).
BTW - to the OP, can you speak to the garage that did the last service about the Vanos? How long ago was it done?
Edited by dazren on Tuesday 1st May 18:16
I see your point and agree the goodies are especially important on new cars. However as cars get older they are less important, so the adjustment in value between those cars with and those without reduces. I take the approach when buying older used cars of beating down the seller on price as the car doesn't have essential things I won't use! At the time I bought my M5 the difference was about £2.5k. The adjustment to the value for having not having these bits in 4 or 5 years time should be a lot less than this.
DAZ
DAZ
Well i bit the bullet and purchased the car last night. Managed to get a bit off the price but it was the garage owners own car which was never advertised and I had only heard from word of mouth. Basically he didn't need to sell it so bargaining was tricky to say the least.
I know that not having the comms pack may have put off a lot of you but I actually like the look of the dash without it and the large brick phone is something i'm sure I can live without. Sat nav wil be provided by tom tom. it may not be integrated but it will be much quicker intuitive and have the birds eye view. its also a hands free kit through bluetooth negating the need for the comms pack phone which you have to insert your sim into i believe?
Anyway I'm very happy with the car and its a real smile inducer.
All thats left now is to plan the le mans trip via the Nurburgring!
I know that not having the comms pack may have put off a lot of you but I actually like the look of the dash without it and the large brick phone is something i'm sure I can live without. Sat nav wil be provided by tom tom. it may not be integrated but it will be much quicker intuitive and have the birds eye view. its also a hands free kit through bluetooth negating the need for the comms pack phone which you have to insert your sim into i believe?
Anyway I'm very happy with the car and its a real smile inducer.
All thats left now is to plan the le mans trip via the Nurburgring!
Edited by mcerbm on Thursday 3rd May 07:39
I couldn't resist a reply to this one. I agree whole heartedly with DAZREN. I have given up counting the number of times I have heard the rubbish about comms packs etc etc.I own a 1999 M5 with 100000 relatively trouble free miles on it, my purchase criteria did not even consider COMMS. I looked for ages before buying a low priced but good example. What is worth more? excellent paintwork, immaculate leather,or Comms. My cars paintwork is way above average as is the leather and general condition of the car. A comms pack car needing any amount of restoration due to careless ownership inside or outside will cost signifcantly more than any value you may perceive in having comms fitted as standard. My Garmin Nuvi is better than any Sat Nav this generation of BMW could provide, and transfers quickly to any other car in seconds.
I track my 400hp M5 irregularly, but bought it for its all round performance, why else have 400hp under the bonnet? (Bar room B******t is not my reason) buy an Alpina or 530i to cruise around with your sat nav and out of date motorola telephone instead, its much cheaper in the long run.
Rant over, but any cars current condition, history, mileage for age, and colour come way way before the comms pack!!!! No comms in your jag yep pay less but in a 400hp BMW kind of not very important.
I track my 400hp M5 irregularly, but bought it for its all round performance, why else have 400hp under the bonnet? (Bar room B******t is not my reason) buy an Alpina or 530i to cruise around with your sat nav and out of date motorola telephone instead, its much cheaper in the long run.
Rant over, but any cars current condition, history, mileage for age, and colour come way way before the comms pack!!!! No comms in your jag yep pay less but in a 400hp BMW kind of not very important.
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