Z3M Buying Advice Please
Discussion
Hi,
I have just sold my TVR and would like to enter the Z3M world!! What are the main things I should be looking for - what are the usual problems that occur with such cars?
Any other advice greatly appreciated!
What is the Vanos problem that I keep reading about on adveryts?
Cheers
Nick
I have just sold my TVR and would like to enter the Z3M world!! What are the main things I should be looking for - what are the usual problems that occur with such cars?
Any other advice greatly appreciated!
What is the Vanos problem that I keep reading about on adveryts?
Cheers
Nick
Hi,
I recently bought a Z3M too, so I'll let you know what I looked out for...
Apparently Vanos' are notorious for going at ~50k miles and they make a funny rattling or growling sound.
I read about problems with the floor pan coming unattached although I have no idea what that means and as mine was low mileage I tried not to worry too much. Someone else may know more about this...??
Also, check when the next inspection is due and if it is a I or II as I think the II is about £750.
I really really like my car so I wouldn't hesitate in recommending one for a second. They are very fast and feel even faster. The S50 ('98-'00) doesn't have traction control and can be unnerving in the wet if you choose to drive quickly. The S54 (mid '00 onwards) does have traction control and has 20 more bhp but not dramatically different.
I'm sure this doesn't cover everything but it's a start...!
DP
I recently bought a Z3M too, so I'll let you know what I looked out for...
Apparently Vanos' are notorious for going at ~50k miles and they make a funny rattling or growling sound.
I read about problems with the floor pan coming unattached although I have no idea what that means and as mine was low mileage I tried not to worry too much. Someone else may know more about this...??
Also, check when the next inspection is due and if it is a I or II as I think the II is about £750.
I really really like my car so I wouldn't hesitate in recommending one for a second. They are very fast and feel even faster. The S50 ('98-'00) doesn't have traction control and can be unnerving in the wet if you choose to drive quickly. The S54 (mid '00 onwards) does have traction control and has 20 more bhp but not dramatically different.
I'm sure this doesn't cover everything but it's a start...!
DP
As alluded to above, there was (effectively) a facelift in the Z3M range around October 2001. Cars built after that date recieved the S54 motor from the E46 M3, rather than the E36's S52 unit as found in earlier Z3M's. As a result the S54 cars (I'm told) are significantly less prone to VANOS failure. The later cars are the ones to go for but as they account for less than 20% of the cars out there, and are the newest ones, they command a premium.
I heard rumblings from across the pond regarding a class-action suit regarding rear sub-frame failures on the Z3 in general (or some nonesense like that, it was on a Z3 owner's forum and I don't recall the details). However I've never heard anything about it over here, so I suspect that it must be either US car specific or a product of over-active imaginations.
You'll find more info on this thread:- www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=299960
Are you in the market for a Roadster or a Coupe?
I heard rumblings from across the pond regarding a class-action suit regarding rear sub-frame failures on the Z3 in general (or some nonesense like that, it was on a Z3 owner's forum and I don't recall the details). However I've never heard anything about it over here, so I suspect that it must be either US car specific or a product of over-active imaginations.
You'll find more info on this thread:- www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=299960
Are you in the market for a Roadster or a Coupe?
Most of the time you don't need the whole vanos to replace!! when they make a growling diesel like sound they say ow, you need a new vanos, but mostly you only need a new tension-er!! so that does not cost that much and when it makes that sound you can mostly drive many many miles, only its not that great sound
so then replace the tension-er and there you go
My first was a 1997 Z3 M roadster and it was big fun but always liked the coupe looks and I'm in my fourth coupe they are really lovable and rare! specially my version there only one in the world, the Hartge Z3 coupe 5.0 its a beast
GTRene
so then replace the tension-er and there you go My first was a 1997 Z3 M roadster and it was big fun but always liked the coupe looks and I'm in my fourth coupe they are really lovable and rare! specially my version there only one in the world, the Hartge Z3 coupe 5.0 its a beast
GTRene
"The S54 (mid '00 onwards).. has 20 more bhp" - not true, they're about the same.
The Vanos issue is over hyped, but worth checking to see if any work's been done. Go to: www.z3mcoupe.com/
The Vanos issue is over hyped, but worth checking to see if any work's been done. Go to: www.z3mcoupe.com/
Manand38 said:
"The S54 (mid '00 onwards).. has 20 more bhp" - not true, they're about the same.
The Vanos issue is over hyped, but worth checking to see if any work's been done. Go to: www.z3mcoupe.com/
The Vanos issue is over hyped, but worth checking to see if any work's been done. Go to: www.z3mcoupe.com/
The S50 engine is quoted at 321bhp, although the general consensus is that non of them make that, more like 300. The S54 engine when fitted to an M Coupe is quoted at 325bhp, this is because of a more restrictive exhaust sysem on the M Coupe compared to the E46 M3.
M5Dave said:
Manand38 said:
"The S54 (mid '00 onwards).. has 20 more bhp" - not true, they're about the same.
The Vanos issue is over hyped, but worth checking to see if any work's been done. Go to: www.z3mcoupe.com/
The Vanos issue is over hyped, but worth checking to see if any work's been done. Go to: www.z3mcoupe.com/
The S50 engine is quoted at 321bhp, although the general consensus is that non of them make that, more like 300. The S54 engine when fitted to an M Coupe is quoted at 325bhp, this is because of a more restrictive exhaust sysem on the M Coupe compared to the E46 M3.
Not correct I had also a S54 Z3 M coupe and the rev limiter is limited!! the E46 M3 can go up to 7.900<> 8.000rpm and the S54 Z3 M coupe only 7.400<>7.500rpm change that to the E46 rpm and a lot more is coming!(because the M3 engine delivers power at high revs) I know cause I did that
the rest is almost bull
change your rear mufflers for better and lighter scorpion one's and put a K&N or Green Air filter in, the you have around 350/360hp at 8.000rpm also remove the speed limiter just as I did and you can have more fun GTRene
This type but then fot the Z3 M I had those on my S54 M coupe and the sound was way better and really much lighter!
www.bavauto.com/shop.asp
Edited by GTRene on Wednesday 11th April 19:30
Also I've driven 15.000km with loud vanos in one of my M cars, no problem...sold it with that to a mechanic and he said, ow, no problem for us
don't let you scare you away, remember not only the Z3 M coupe has that S50-B32 engine, if you scared you also can't buy a E36 M3 with such engine so don't worry to much and when it does make a sound use that to get some down on the price
have fun, it really are masterpieces and very fine cars to own and to joy, and better driving then a TVR sometimes you miss the V8 grunt but with the V8 you miss the M smoothness with the long usable power-band, that's why I now after 4 Z3 M cars have a Hartge Z3 with a smooth BMW V8 5.0 , best of both worlds
GTRene
in one of my M cars, no problem...sold it with that to a mechanic and he said, ow, no problem for us don't let you scare you away, remember not only the Z3 M coupe has that S50-B32 engine, if you scared you also can't buy a E36 M3 with such engine
so don't worry to much and when it does make a sound use that to get some down on the price have fun, it really are masterpieces and very fine cars to own and to joy, and better driving then a TVR
sometimes you miss the V8 grunt but with the V8 you miss the M smoothness with the long usable power-band, that's why I now after 4 Z3 M cars have a Hartge Z3 with a smooth BMW V8 5.0 , best of both worlds GTRene
We have just been through this ,its a bit stressful but in fairness there are some nice cars about,ours had the vanos done and the invoice was for £1500 or so , look for full history and general condition ,we had to fit a new throttle cable as ours was very stiff but to be honest the cars we looked at were all in pretty good order just some with a few more stone chips ,we did notice that the cars with 60000 miles upwards had a bit of a tappit rattle when started from cold but it always sorted itself out when warm ,ours has 39000 on the clock and it is very quiet when cold it needs a new window in the hood about £200 from a main dealer and is coming up for inspection one £650 but we did take this into acount when looking .
The rear floor pan does experience cracks on these cars on a few occasions. Have a search over on Zroadster.net for more details.
Great cars and a lot of fun which are coming down in price. Tiff loved it.
The Imola Red S54 AC Schnitzer car for sale in PH classified is a superb example and had a new S54 fitted not too long ago.
Great cars and a lot of fun which are coming down in price. Tiff loved it.
The Imola Red S54 AC Schnitzer car for sale in PH classified is a superb example and had a new S54 fitted not too long ago.
BRoCceRs said:
Don't worry about VANOS just make sure in the cars history it was changed - BMW will be abe to tell you if you speak to the right people. Its the gears where the issue lies for future reference.
So is it a given that the VANOS *will* fail at some point?
I'm currently looking at a low mileage example (less than 50k) of the earlier cars. It hasnt had the VANOS replaced, would it be insane to even consider it? Obviously I'd be getting a professional inspection done first, but its going to be my daily driver (probs 12000 a year).
I'm really keen, but the VANOS issue is the only thing causing me a headache!
MrFlibbles said:
BRoCceRs said:
Don't worry about VANOS just make sure in the cars history it was changed - BMW will be abe to tell you if you speak to the right people. Its the gears where the issue lies for future reference.
So is it a given that the VANOS *will* fail at some point?
I'm currently looking at a low mileage example (less than 50k) of the earlier cars. It hasnt had the VANOS replaced, would it be insane to even consider it? Obviously I'd be getting a professional inspection done first, but its going to be my daily driver (probs 12000 a year).
I'm really keen, but the VANOS issue is the only thing causing me a headache!
AFAIK, it's not a given to fail part, some seem prone to failure and others don't. I've heard that if the Vanos filter is regularly cleaned, it's a good idea. There are companies like Warranty Direct that cover the VANOS unit specifically anyway.
Our Vanos is "a bit growly" in the words of our (specialist) mechanic. His advice is not to worry too much and leave it a bit noisy.
£1500 isn't the end of the world if it fails, most high performance cars have some failing/design fault somewhere whcih can easily create bills of this size. At the end of the day, they are not cheap cars to run, and if you're vaery worried about a "potential" £1500 bill then I would look at cheaper/newer cars tbh.
£1500 isn't the end of the world if it fails, most high performance cars have some failing/design fault somewhere whcih can easily create bills of this size. At the end of the day, they are not cheap cars to run, and if you're vaery worried about a "potential" £1500 bill then I would look at cheaper/newer cars tbh.
Smartie said:
Our Vanos is "a bit growly" in the words of our (specialist) mechanic. His advice is not to worry too much and leave it a bit noisy.
£1500 isn't the end of the world if it fails, most high performance cars have some failing/design fault somewhere whcih can easily create bills of this size. At the end of the day, they are not cheap cars to run, and if you're vaery worried about a "potential" £1500 bill then I would look at cheaper/newer cars tbh.
£1500 isn't the end of the world if it fails, most high performance cars have some failing/design fault somewhere whcih can easily create bills of this size. At the end of the day, they are not cheap cars to run, and if you're vaery worried about a "potential" £1500 bill then I would look at cheaper/newer cars tbh.
Dont get me wrong, I understand fully that the running costs will be high. Obviously I'm no fool, but its better to not have to fork out £1500 at all! I'm just trying to get my head around the likelihood of the bill.
If the bill comes, so be it, if it doesn't, great!
MrFlibbles said:
Smartie said:
Our Vanos is "a bit growly" in the words of our (specialist) mechanic. His advice is not to worry too much and leave it a bit noisy.
£1500 isn't the end of the world if it fails, most high performance cars have some failing/design fault somewhere whcih can easily create bills of this size. At the end of the day, they are not cheap cars to run, and if you're vaery worried about a "potential" £1500 bill then I would look at cheaper/newer cars tbh.
£1500 isn't the end of the world if it fails, most high performance cars have some failing/design fault somewhere whcih can easily create bills of this size. At the end of the day, they are not cheap cars to run, and if you're vaery worried about a "potential" £1500 bill then I would look at cheaper/newer cars tbh.
Dont get me wrong, I understand fully that the running costs will be high. Obviously I'm no fool, but its better to not have to fork out £1500 at all! I'm just trying to get my head around the likelihood of the bill.
If the bill comes, so be it, if it doesn't, great!
I ran my M3 Evo for four years and 41,000 miles (bought it with 41,000 and sold it with 82,000), never replaced the vanos, and it was still quiet when the car was sold, so it's by no means certain that it will fail.
The problem is that it is a difficult problem to predict, some units can become noisy, but they go on like this for ages and don't affect the way the car drives.
I think it depends on your attitude to risk, if it's something that really bothers you then it may be worth investigating some aftermarket warranties, or just put some money aside, cross your fingers and hope it doesn't happen. Either way if you allow yourself to become paranoid about it, then it will spoil your enjoyment of an excellent car.
Just buy one :-)
As you say if it goes then so be it, if it doesnt- bonus
I bought mine privatley but part of the deal was I would pay for a full bmw 120? point inspection and we would negotiate anything that needed doing, which gave me peace of mind.
Depending on your budget the later S54 version appears to hold its value better due to the later engine, not that I am biased both are great :-)
Good luck
As you say if it goes then so be it, if it doesnt- bonus
I bought mine privatley but part of the deal was I would pay for a full bmw 120? point inspection and we would negotiate anything that needed doing, which gave me peace of mind.
Depending on your budget the later S54 version appears to hold its value better due to the later engine, not that I am biased both are great :-)
Good luck
Interesting thread this, I went through the same thought process when I bought mine (S50), which is now sadly up for sale.
My ZM had the Vanos done by BMW under warranty by the previous owner. In researching the car I spoke to the BMW dealers who had looked after the car and done the Vanos warranty work. I also spoke to the independent M specialist in Leeds who now looks after the car. The feedback I got was that the Vanos replacement included a fix to prevent it happening again. So, if it really worries you, as broccers says you could always go for a car that's had it done (like mine
)
As Andrew says, Vanos isn't an issue on S54 cars. However, they're more desirable and therefore command more money than an S50 but still represent great value if the budget allows.
The bottom line is these are great cars and represent an awful lot of car for the money. Just do your research, see plenty of cars, ask lots of questions, get the car you want inspected and, if you can, manage your budget to buy one at a price which allows you to put a few quid aside, just in case.
My ZM had the Vanos done by BMW under warranty by the previous owner. In researching the car I spoke to the BMW dealers who had looked after the car and done the Vanos warranty work. I also spoke to the independent M specialist in Leeds who now looks after the car. The feedback I got was that the Vanos replacement included a fix to prevent it happening again. So, if it really worries you, as broccers says you could always go for a car that's had it done (like mine
) As Andrew says, Vanos isn't an issue on S54 cars. However, they're more desirable and therefore command more money than an S50 but still represent great value if the budget allows.
The bottom line is these are great cars and represent an awful lot of car for the money. Just do your research, see plenty of cars, ask lots of questions, get the car you want inspected and, if you can, manage your budget to buy one at a price which allows you to put a few quid aside, just in case.
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