Discussion
Just popped into my local BMW dealer today to check on whether they have any official info on the new M3. Was told the waiting time is roughly 2 years as all allocation is sold out.
I'm not entirely convinced with the looks yet so will wait to see it in the metal/carbon, however the salesman was able to confirm the standard spec which includes as Nav, metallic paint, 18" (which looks crap) and more interestingly, carbon roof. However, the price will weigh in at £51k which is quite a jump from the E46 which listed at £38k in 2000. The official power is 420bhp / 400nm from the V8 with no info on weight so can't work out the power to weight.
Must say with a few other goodies added including the 19" upgrade, not many M3s will leave the showroom under £55k which does make you think twice as it's £5k more than an RS4 - 996 TT and GT3s can also be had which makes the new M3 seem incredibly poor value..
as I have just bought an '02 996TT in black/black with Nav for under £52k, 500bhp+ can be easily had with a remap + exhaust upgrade which seems pretty good value. I can sense it'll be hard for BMW to shift once cars reach 2nd hand market at £50k+ - residuals could end up like the CSL as the 3's natural price point is £40 - £45k.
I'm not entirely convinced with the looks yet so will wait to see it in the metal/carbon, however the salesman was able to confirm the standard spec which includes as Nav, metallic paint, 18" (which looks crap) and more interestingly, carbon roof. However, the price will weigh in at £51k which is quite a jump from the E46 which listed at £38k in 2000. The official power is 420bhp / 400nm from the V8 with no info on weight so can't work out the power to weight.
Must say with a few other goodies added including the 19" upgrade, not many M3s will leave the showroom under £55k which does make you think twice as it's £5k more than an RS4 - 996 TT and GT3s can also be had which makes the new M3 seem incredibly poor value..
as I have just bought an '02 996TT in black/black with Nav for under £52k, 500bhp+ can be easily had with a remap + exhaust upgrade which seems pretty good value. I can sense it'll be hard for BMW to shift once cars reach 2nd hand market at £50k+ - residuals could end up like the CSL as the 3's natural price point is £40 - £45k.
Edited by amare32 on Friday 6th April 17:33
amare32 said:
Just popped into my local BMW dealer today to check on whether they have any official info on the new M3. Was told the waiting time is roughly 2 years as all allocation is sold out.
amare32 said:
I can sense it'll be hard for BMW to shift at that price - residuals could end up like the CSL as the 3's natural price point is £40 - £45k.
These two statements don't really add up? If all allocations are sold out, to me it sounds like BMW has no trouble shifting the new M3?
Wether they can sell them to entusiasts will be dependant on the car living up to all the hype which is sky high.
On the other hand the poseur types will buy the car for the sake of it to show off,so it will always sell.
I very nearly placed a deposit a while ago but dedcided not to do it,for 55k it will have to be darned good but if they have fitted electric power steering like i read somewhere then how will it have any tactility at the wheel?
The weight is 1655kg which is pretty hefty,they should offer a gt3rs style seat option which could eliviate around 80kg.
Im going to wait until they are on the used market and pick up a fully loaded one.If it lives up to the hype that is!
On the other hand the poseur types will buy the car for the sake of it to show off,so it will always sell.
I very nearly placed a deposit a while ago but dedcided not to do it,for 55k it will have to be darned good but if they have fitted electric power steering like i read somewhere then how will it have any tactility at the wheel?
The weight is 1655kg which is pretty hefty,they should offer a gt3rs style seat option which could eliviate around 80kg.
Im going to wait until they are on the used market and pick up a fully loaded one.If it lives up to the hype that is!
rassi said:
amare32 said:
Just popped into my local BMW dealer today to check on whether they have any official info on the new M3. Was told the waiting time is roughly 2 years as all allocation is sold out.
amare32 said:
I can sense it'll be hard for BMW to shift at that price - residuals could end up like the CSL as the 3's natural price point is £40 - £45k.
These two statements don't really add up? If all allocations are sold out, to me it sounds like BMW has no trouble shifting the new M3?
I stand corrected. What I meant is how many takers for a £50k+ M3 once it reaches the used market.
olf said:
Maybe BMW have decided that mass market isn't the way to go with the new M3. To be honest I think the E46 M3 was produced in far to great a number, maybe BMW feel the same and the new M3 will be a bit more limited.
We wish. BMW aren't in the habit of restricting supply any more than is required to maintain residuals and create some hype.
If there are customers out there with money to burn then the boys in Bavaria will build 'em.
Done some sums from the Ge price list:
66650 EURO basic inc German VAT (note germans now pay 19% VAT, not 16% anymore)
options mostly as per E90
Electronic Dampers + 1900 EURO
M Drive 520 EURO (only with navi - not sure what this does, way of configuring M bits of car / dampers etc. through screen I think)
Leather + 2220 (cloth leather standard in Ge)
Bum Heaters + 370 EURO
19" wheels 1850 EUR
Met Paint 770 EUR
Navi prof mit bluetooth - 3900 EURO
6 speed manual only, and no sunroof option obviously!
This lot comes to : 76000 EURO
ex 19% VAT this would be 64000 EURO
at 1.48 Euros to £, this is £43,000 ex VAT with these options
or £50,700 inc UK VAT at 17.5%, but this is without UK markup/RHD charges.
Hence you're probably looking at £53-56,000 in UK with this spec depending on how much BMW GB wants to rip us off.
Thats quite alot, but as per predictions. I spent £47k on a new E46 M3 Cab with SMG & nav/telly etc. when that came out in 2002. Not sure why this car is so much more when many cars (see Porsche Boxster etc.) are not much more than they were in 2002. Its too close in £ to a 911 in my view at these prices. Chances of a discount are slim going by other M cars so depreciation slope could be nearer to that of the current M6 (15k loss on purchase), rather than the E46 4 years ago (which was great at keeping its value). [I know E90s are alot more than E46s used to be but you didn't used to be able to get £7k discounts like you can now]
Plus - .........
3 yr service inclusive with 60k km - 1800 EUR (!)
5 yr service inclusive with 100k km / 60,000 miles - 3200 EUR (!)
66650 EURO basic inc German VAT (note germans now pay 19% VAT, not 16% anymore)
options mostly as per E90
Electronic Dampers + 1900 EURO
M Drive 520 EURO (only with navi - not sure what this does, way of configuring M bits of car / dampers etc. through screen I think)
Leather + 2220 (cloth leather standard in Ge)
Bum Heaters + 370 EURO
19" wheels 1850 EUR
Met Paint 770 EUR
Navi prof mit bluetooth - 3900 EURO
6 speed manual only, and no sunroof option obviously!
This lot comes to : 76000 EURO
ex 19% VAT this would be 64000 EURO
at 1.48 Euros to £, this is £43,000 ex VAT with these options
or £50,700 inc UK VAT at 17.5%, but this is without UK markup/RHD charges.
Hence you're probably looking at £53-56,000 in UK with this spec depending on how much BMW GB wants to rip us off.
Thats quite alot, but as per predictions. I spent £47k on a new E46 M3 Cab with SMG & nav/telly etc. when that came out in 2002. Not sure why this car is so much more when many cars (see Porsche Boxster etc.) are not much more than they were in 2002. Its too close in £ to a 911 in my view at these prices. Chances of a discount are slim going by other M cars so depreciation slope could be nearer to that of the current M6 (15k loss on purchase), rather than the E46 4 years ago (which was great at keeping its value). [I know E90s are alot more than E46s used to be but you didn't used to be able to get £7k discounts like you can now]
Plus - .........
3 yr service inclusive with 60k km - 1800 EUR (!)
5 yr service inclusive with 100k km / 60,000 miles - 3200 EUR (!)
amare32 said:
I can sense it'll be hard for BMW to shift once cars reach 2nd hand market at £50k+ - residuals could end up like the CSL as the 3's natural price point is £40 - £45k.
I don't accept that comment, but then I am one of the 100 or so people that bought the CSL at £60k. Even E46 M3's that I owned before my CSL cost between £45 - 47k. Second hand values for CSLs like mine are still c£35c, and that's getting on for 4 years later. Years ago when the E36 M3 was launched (at just under £40k), it was competing against the Porsche 964 which was early £50k at the time (someone correct me if I am wrong). Since then 911 prices have skyrocketed up to nearer £70k, so there's no reason why M3 prices shouldn't follow suit provided (as it does) it remains competitive with the contemporary 911.
BMW's strategy has been to move the M3 upmarket, to allow room for the completely new 1 series coupe that will be out in less than a year. That supposedly will result in less volume being sold and a plan to limit supply more carefully, but we'll see how greedy BMW gets.
Moving M3s up market is perfectly acceptable, whether the strategy will work I guess we'll have to wait and see. I bought my M3 for £41k in '03 and ran it for 18 months and sold for £32k which was not too bad depreciation. It's not always easy to change how people percieve a brand and for me, I wouldn't spend over £45k for a BMW period. It's not badge snobbery by any means. It was the same when I bought an S2 Elise 111S, the most I would spend on it was £30k, plastic cars or not.
Witness why M6s suffer from chronic depreciation as soon as it leaves the forecourt. £86k: M6 or 997 GT3? Even though they both differ in concept, most people would probably opt for the Porsche as it's seen as the better value of the two.
Witness why M6s suffer from chronic depreciation as soon as it leaves the forecourt. £86k: M6 or 997 GT3? Even though they both differ in concept, most people would probably opt for the Porsche as it's seen as the better value of the two.
amare - I think you're right. I don't think the E93 M3 is as safe a place for your cash as the E46 was back in the early days.
I'm also not nearly as excited about this one as when the E46 first came in - though the V8 does sound nice.
It'll be interesting to see if/how quickly the queue drops if speculators get cold feet and bin their option.
Same with V8 aston - expected a £65k list back in early 2004 when I ordered & hence lovely residual honeymoon period after launch - but quickly dropped my place in the queue when I realised after speccing it was going to cost me £87k, and hence would not hold value so well. I was 7th (007) on the queue at my dealer too (bet they told everyone that though..!).
I'm also not nearly as excited about this one as when the E46 first came in - though the V8 does sound nice.
It'll be interesting to see if/how quickly the queue drops if speculators get cold feet and bin their option.
Same with V8 aston - expected a £65k list back in early 2004 when I ordered & hence lovely residual honeymoon period after launch - but quickly dropped my place in the queue when I realised after speccing it was going to cost me £87k, and hence would not hold value so well. I was 7th (007) on the queue at my dealer too (bet they told everyone that though..!).
amare32 said:
Just popped into my local BMW dealer today to check on whether they have any official info on the new M3. Was told the waiting time is roughly 2 years as all allocation is sold out.
That is interesting - 2 years wait, other posters have quoted 3rd or 4th in the queue recently?
Is this regional variations?
If your dealer gets an M3 every 6 months, then 4th in queue can mean a 2 year wait. When I was calling around I found a dealer in West London with a queue of 25-odd deposits. There are variations on the queue from dealer to dealer, and they don't know how many cars they will get. As a general rule, bigger dealers will get more cars, so being 4th in a queue at a very big dealer is preferential to being 4th at a small dealer.
x5x3 said:
amare32 said:
Just popped into my local BMW dealer today to check on whether they have any official info on the new M3. Was told the waiting time is roughly 2 years as all allocation is sold out.
That is interesting - 2 years wait, other posters have quoted 3rd or 4th in the queue recently?
Is this regional variations?
Hhhhmmm - the people quoting 3rd or 4th in the queue will have been in the queue for a couple of years or so... which bears no correlation to the length of the queue for new enquiries now?!?!
The RS4 pushes £54k list....
Base price is £50850 or something and then the only option you really need to add is the teck pack which was £3k I think. It seems the new M3's must have option is 19's, also the seats look a bit inferior compared to those in the RS4, I heard a rumbling that there were a few seat options?
But 2 years wait???!!!! jeez. I wonder how many people will still be ordering after hearing the price and seeing the rather tame press pics of the red car? I know some people have had deposits down for years on this car but that was before it's price point changed.
Base price is £50850 or something and then the only option you really need to add is the teck pack which was £3k I think. It seems the new M3's must have option is 19's, also the seats look a bit inferior compared to those in the RS4, I heard a rumbling that there were a few seat options?
But 2 years wait???!!!! jeez. I wonder how many people will still be ordering after hearing the price and seeing the rather tame press pics of the red car? I know some people have had deposits down for years on this car but that was before it's price point changed.
markwm said:
The RS4 pushes £54k list....
Base price is £50850 or something and then the only option you really need to add is the teck pack which was £3k I think. It seems the new M3's must have option is 19's, also the seats look a bit inferior compared to those in the RS4, I heard a rumbling that there were a few seat options?
But 2 years wait???!!!! jeez. I wonder how many people will still be ordering after hearing the price and seeing the rather tame press pics of the red car? I know some people have had deposits down for years on this car but that was before it's price point changed.
Base price is £50850 or something and then the only option you really need to add is the teck pack which was £3k I think. It seems the new M3's must have option is 19's, also the seats look a bit inferior compared to those in the RS4, I heard a rumbling that there were a few seat options?
But 2 years wait???!!!! jeez. I wonder how many people will still be ordering after hearing the price and seeing the rather tame press pics of the red car? I know some people have had deposits down for years on this car but that was before it's price point changed.
I bet if one is 'spec flexible' you'll be able to get a cancelled order with no wait or premium above list (it is a mass-produced performance car).
Not wishing to split hairs but it is £49,680 OTR!
And the new M Double clutch gearbox will be available around 03/2008 so the first ones will be manual so may effect ordering times as those after SMG, will not be able to have the early allocation. Plus we have got about a 2 year wait for 'M3's' once you split them from Coupe or Convertible, Manual or SMG and those who no longer have the funds the wait will be shorter!! but it is down to how many cars we get per year from BMW.
And the new M Double clutch gearbox will be available around 03/2008 so the first ones will be manual so may effect ordering times as those after SMG, will not be able to have the early allocation. Plus we have got about a 2 year wait for 'M3's' once you split them from Coupe or Convertible, Manual or SMG and those who no longer have the funds the wait will be shorter!! but it is down to how many cars we get per year from BMW.
I'd put money on being able to get hold of a demonstator within 5 months of launch, there's no way some people will wait 2 years for their order once its officially released and i bet loads will cancel with it being so expensive, and I bet production will be strong and plentiful as the E46 was, this is not a niche car after all, it'll be a mass produced 3 series with more power. If they'd pitched it at 47k then i think no one would have mentioned anything over the price but at 55k (which is what it'll cost with the right options) it's into M5/M6 territory and that's not a good thing.
taffyracer said:
I'd put money on being able to get hold of a demonstator within 5 months of launch, there's no way some people will wait 2 years for their order once its officially released and i bet loads will cancel with it being so expensive, and I bet production will be strong and plentiful as the E46 was, this is not a niche car after all, it'll be a mass produced 3 series with more power. If they'd pitched it at 47k then i think no one would have mentioned anything over the price but at 55k (which is what it'll cost with the right options) it's into M5/M6 territory and that's not a good thing.
Your more than likely will get a demo but again it will depend on allocation there is no point in selling your demo if it can't be replaced for 6/12 months etc.
As for the price its bang on the money! with the likes of sat nav, paint and leather as standard spec you won't need to spend a fortune on option unless you want it a bit extra special and go for individual colours and nappa.
As for it being in M5/M6 terriotory that is irrelevent, many of the cars in the range cross on price, a 1 can be more expensive than a 3, a 3 more than a 5 and so on! a new 335 convertible with a few extras will be more than an M3 customers buy what they like and a car that suits there needs, its not always down to size and power.
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