Tracking an E36?
Discussion
I'm in the process of buying an E36 M3 (non-evo) for weekend fun and an interim trackday car until my current project next year and just wondered if anybody on here has an E36 that they track?
My initial plans would be to simply upgrade the pads first of all, I don't want to spend fortunes on modding the car as it will only be a short term thing.
Any feedback much appreciated.
My initial plans would be to simply upgrade the pads first of all, I don't want to spend fortunes on modding the car as it will only be a short term thing.
Any feedback much appreciated.
One of the guys who tracks with us has turned his E36 into a pretty effective track car. However, he has gone the whole hog and stripped and caged it. With the Vanos removed and MBE fitted as engine management, along with coilovers and AP Brakes it's pretty quick. However, if you want to just warm your road car up for a bit of track use then your first port of call should be the brakes. They are not light cars, especially with all the trim on-board, this is the first thing that will give you grief. A near race spec pad (Ferodo DS2500 or 3000) is a good place to start, good fluid (SRF) and braided hoses will help. Next you may want to go for some better suspension, If you are really keen then consider coilovers. It is much cheaper to do it once and do it right. Someone who prepares E30 and E36 race cars once said to me that in terms of money they e30 was cheaper to prepare and get to work very well on track as it was a better base. The e36 could be made to work very well, but was a more costly route to take. Enjoy.
Thanks for the advice, wise words indeed.
I guessed that the brakes would probably be highlighted as a relative weak spot on the track, because as you say, it isn't a light car.
In an ideal world I would have an E30 but think that for my budget it would not be the finest of examples! I'm looking to buy an E36 for approx £5-6k, which I know will not buy a show winner but I think will get a good enough example for my usage.
Will look great parked next to my race prepped 2002tii when it's finished too!
I guessed that the brakes would probably be highlighted as a relative weak spot on the track, because as you say, it isn't a light car.
In an ideal world I would have an E30 but think that for my budget it would not be the finest of examples! I'm looking to buy an E36 for approx £5-6k, which I know will not buy a show winner but I think will get a good enough example for my usage.
Will look great parked next to my race prepped 2002tii when it's finished too!
The E36 is an amazing track car and you don't need to spend a fortune to get them singing on track, as mentioned the brakes will need looking at but not a huge amount of work if you plan to use it as a daily as well, Pagid yellow's are the preferred choice due to their excellent wear characteristics and superb track ability, need a set of hoses and some decent fluid, Castrol SRF or Mintex black is what we use. If you need any advice give me a shout, i race these and know the E36 pretty well.
Cheers guys, it will be mostly used on track and weekend blasts to be honest although may be called into action if the Lotus is deemed impractical for the daily slog!
It's great to hear that the E36 will be superb on track pretty much 'out of the box', cetainly good news fotr my wallet anyway!!
Plan so far -
I've got a pair of race seats/harnesses that I could put in and take the rear seats out
Upgrade pads/lines etc (not discs at the moment)
Exhaust and induction (just becasue I love the noise)!
Oh and find the right car, ideally after Dakar Yellow and then powder coat the wheels black with a yellow pinstripe around the rim. Sound okay?
It's great to hear that the E36 will be superb on track pretty much 'out of the box', cetainly good news fotr my wallet anyway!!
Plan so far -
I've got a pair of race seats/harnesses that I could put in and take the rear seats out
Upgrade pads/lines etc (not discs at the moment)
Exhaust and induction (just becasue I love the noise)!
Oh and find the right car, ideally after Dakar Yellow and then powder coat the wheels black with a yellow pinstripe around the rim. Sound okay?
Had an E36 Evo as a track car this year (now sold).
For a standard spec car, and for the money, they are bloody quick. Brakes are the big weak area (as the other guys have said). If you wanted to throw some, but not masses, of money at it to improve the track performance I would say go for a full brake upgrade, £2000 ish, and then just get some of the weight out by removing seats, trim etc.
I ran standard discs and upradted pads. 3 fast laps pretty much cooked the brakes whatever, and I'm no Nigel Mansell!
Suspension and pace are perfectly good enough, and unless you are a very experienced track driver, the next weakest link after the brakes will be the driver, IMHO!
For a standard spec car, and for the money, they are bloody quick. Brakes are the big weak area (as the other guys have said). If you wanted to throw some, but not masses, of money at it to improve the track performance I would say go for a full brake upgrade, £2000 ish, and then just get some of the weight out by removing seats, trim etc.
I ran standard discs and upradted pads. 3 fast laps pretty much cooked the brakes whatever, and I'm no Nigel Mansell!
Suspension and pace are perfectly good enough, and unless you are a very experienced track driver, the next weakest link after the brakes will be the driver, IMHO!
Cavey said:
Suspension and pace are perfectly good enough, and unless you are a very experienced track driver, the next weakest link after the brakes will be the driver, IMHO!
You've obviously seen me driving then!?!?
I've been doing trackdays for the last 4/5 years in various Caterhams and Lotus's so will be expecting a slightly different on track feel from the M3 although that is also part of the appeal as I like to try as many different cars as possible!
It will also be called into track action for a 'ring trip with ///M Power with his Exige.
www.pistonheads.com/sales/120884.htm
Edited by L100NYY on Thursday 21st December 09:27
Very popular car for track days and can be made better by a few simple mods having done this myself with my M3 GT this year.
Personally, I'd spend your money on decent suspension (coilovers etc) track tyres and as taffy said, decent pads, fluid and hoses. At this point I think its hard to justify a £2000 brake upgrade on the car as with the brake mods above, you'll see a massive improvement over standard.
A good seat/s makes a huge difference to the driving experience as the standard M3 seats are pretty useless at holding you in place around fast corners.
Personally, I'd spend your money on decent suspension (coilovers etc) track tyres and as taffy said, decent pads, fluid and hoses. At this point I think its hard to justify a £2000 brake upgrade on the car as with the brake mods above, you'll see a massive improvement over standard.
A good seat/s makes a huge difference to the driving experience as the standard M3 seats are pretty useless at holding you in place around fast corners.
Cheers oola, I have to say that your GT in your profile pic looks absolute superb and agin thanks for the sound advice.
I don't really want to go too mad on the modifications for the car so think that the brake pads, lines etc will be the first port of call along with fitting the seats and harnesses and then take it from there.
I don't really want to go too mad on the modifications for the car so think that the brake pads, lines etc will be the first port of call along with fitting the seats and harnesses and then take it from there.
L100NYY - Your welcome ... thanks for the comments on the car, although she'll be going next year. Its been a trusty companion with 2 ring trips, 2 Cadwell track days, 2 Croft track days and 1 at Mallory this year.
The pads you MUST but for the E36 M3 as taffy says are Pagid Yellows (RS-29's). Its a heavy car so avoid any of the 'fast road' applications and don't mention EBC's to anyone ...
The pads you MUST but for the E36 M3 as taffy says are Pagid Yellows (RS-29's). Its a heavy car so avoid any of the 'fast road' applications and don't mention EBC's to anyone ...
oola said:
L100NYY - Your welcome ... thanks for the comments on the car, although she'll be going next year. Its been a trusty companion with 2 ring trips, 2 Cadwell track days, 2 Croft track days and 1 at Mallory this year.
The pads you MUST but for the E36 M3 as taffy says are Pagid Yellows (RS-29's). Its a heavy car so avoid any of the 'fast road' applications and don't mention EBC's to anyone ...
The pads you MUST but for the E36 M3 as taffy says are Pagid Yellows (RS-29's). Its a heavy car so avoid any of the 'fast road' applications and don't mention EBC's to anyone ...
Funnily enough Pagids are the pads that we put on the trackday Elise and Exige, very good pad in my humble opinion.
If I could afford (and wait) for your car then it would be sitting in my driveway next year!!
Cavey said:
Suspension and pace are perfectly good enough, and unless you are a very experienced track driver, the next weakest link after the brakes will be the driver, IMHO!
I hear L100NYY's very experienced, "professional" infact!
Edited by ///M-Power on Thursday 21st December 22:50
///M-Power said:
Cavey said:
Suspension and pace are perfectly good enough, and unless you are a very experienced track driver, the next weakest link after the brakes will be the driver, IMHO!
I hear L100NYY's very experienced, "professional" infact!
Edited by ///M-Power on Thursday 21st December 22:50
Ah look who it is, it's Mr Rallycross Brosnan!
I converted an E36 into a full on track car, stripped and roll caged etc.
Don't go for the AST suspension set-up promoted by EVO magazine - its shite!
In fact that whole long running article about the £15k M3 Track car for the 'Ring is bullshit! Just an f'ng marketing exercise for various product suppliers.
The AST set up is not genuinely independent two way adjustable and you cannot lower the rear of the car adequately ( hardly at all
) from standard. General consensus is go for 3.0 rather than 3.2 due to Vanos issues, and mine has been indestructable so far!
I've been running a '98 M3 Evo on track for the last 12 months, having come from a Caterham SLR.
Handling wise, it is a big caterham, slightly understeers but nothing that can't be tweaked with a touch of trail braking and is a hoot to powerslide.
Never really intending using it on track, but have been so impressed it's turned into my everyday road and track car, including 3 trips to the ring this year.
As you've been told, brakes are a real weak point - I'm on my 4th set of discs this year!
My personal experience is to stick with standard discs, as the two uprated ones I tried warped, and use standard pads at the rear(Mintex 1144's warped my standard rear discs) and pagid fast road or mintex 1144 pad for the front - don't expect to get more than 2 trackdays out of them though!
I have used uprated fluid and braided hoses and get no fade.
Unless of course you can afford to go the AP route, I didn't but wish I had due to the cost of the subsequent discs and pad combinations I've forked out for!
I run totally standard suspension and find it ok but I'm sure I'd notice a big difference with coilovers. I understand that the standard suspension does not allow enough adjustment to dialout the understeer etc.
Tyres, I have not gone for the R888 or Dunlop's as I like to drive as sideways as possible :0) but I have just switched from Michelin PS2 & Bridgestone S02 to Goodyear Eagle F1's and have been really impressed with how progressive they are - and all 4 fitted came to under £400 inc VAT!
Anyhow, always nice to hear of another E36 making a trackday appearance...
Merry Christmas
Simon
Handling wise, it is a big caterham, slightly understeers but nothing that can't be tweaked with a touch of trail braking and is a hoot to powerslide.
Never really intending using it on track, but have been so impressed it's turned into my everyday road and track car, including 3 trips to the ring this year.
As you've been told, brakes are a real weak point - I'm on my 4th set of discs this year!
My personal experience is to stick with standard discs, as the two uprated ones I tried warped, and use standard pads at the rear(Mintex 1144's warped my standard rear discs) and pagid fast road or mintex 1144 pad for the front - don't expect to get more than 2 trackdays out of them though!
I have used uprated fluid and braided hoses and get no fade.
Unless of course you can afford to go the AP route, I didn't but wish I had due to the cost of the subsequent discs and pad combinations I've forked out for!
I run totally standard suspension and find it ok but I'm sure I'd notice a big difference with coilovers. I understand that the standard suspension does not allow enough adjustment to dialout the understeer etc.
Tyres, I have not gone for the R888 or Dunlop's as I like to drive as sideways as possible :0) but I have just switched from Michelin PS2 & Bridgestone S02 to Goodyear Eagle F1's and have been really impressed with how progressive they are - and all 4 fitted came to under £400 inc VAT!
Anyhow, always nice to hear of another E36 making a trackday appearance...
Merry Christmas
Simon
That's excellent advice Simon, and really gald to hear that you too have come fron SLR to the M3 and not been disappointed.
I'm hoping that the M3 is as good as I think it will be on the track and from what you're saying, it is.
Hope to bump into you (not literally ;0 )at a trackday in 2007.
Merry xmas and a happy new year.
I'm hoping that the M3 is as good as I think it will be on the track and from what you're saying, it is.
Hope to bump into you (not literally ;0 )at a trackday in 2007.
Merry xmas and a happy new year.
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