Buying a used M3
Discussion
I appreciate this may have been covered before but a friend is looking to buy a 2002 M3 smg, what are the key things to look out for?
What sort of price range are these cars going for and is there any independent mechanic who knows M3s that can look over the car to identify any potential problems???
Any help appreciated.
Jim
What sort of price range are these cars going for and is there any independent mechanic who knows M3s that can look over the car to identify any potential problems???
Any help appreciated.
Jim
I believe that some E46 M3s have a potentially catastrophic engine fault which has a range of cures from replacing the conrods to fitment of a totally new engine. I understand that the extent of the work required varies from car to car. If you buy an E46 M3 you need to check with BMW that the work (described as an 'enhancement' to divert attention from the fact that it's actually remedial work for their own sloppy engineering), has been carried out, or that the car in question is not one of the affected vehicles. If you were wondering why BMW's extended warranty for M cars is so bloody expensive these days, that's why! Clearly they don't want to pay for the consequences of their own actions when they can charge the customer for it 
This, and the £1800/year + £250 excess warranty that's been prompted by it, are the reasons that I haven't bought an E46 M3 and why, instead, I'm saving a bit more dosh to buy a Porsche 996. I love BMWs, particularly M cars, but they've disappointed me with thieir arrogant attitude towards warranty pricing to cover the cost of their own incompetence and have probably lost a lifelong fan as a consequence 
This, and the £1800/year + £250 excess warranty that's been prompted by it, are the reasons that I haven't bought an E46 M3 and why, instead, I'm saving a bit more dosh to buy a Porsche 996. I love BMWs, particularly M cars, but they've disappointed me with thieir arrogant attitude towards warranty pricing to cover the cost of their own incompetence and have probably lost a lifelong fan as a consequence Totally OTT reply from Mitch.
Early M3s were recalled to have con-rod work done. Any problems were POTENTIAL. As far as I am aware there is no large scale problem with M3s, unlike Porsche 996s which have a well documented series of major engine problems (do a search on the Porsche section using 'RMS' or 'engine failure').
Yes, BMW have ramped up the warranty cost and people are unhappy about it, but the fact is an M3 is a superb, very tough, high-performance sports car that is a joy to own.
Personally I prefer manual, but it's your choice.
Early M3s were recalled to have con-rod work done. Any problems were POTENTIAL. As far as I am aware there is no large scale problem with M3s, unlike Porsche 996s which have a well documented series of major engine problems (do a search on the Porsche section using 'RMS' or 'engine failure').
Yes, BMW have ramped up the warranty cost and people are unhappy about it, but the fact is an M3 is a superb, very tough, high-performance sports car that is a joy to own.
Personally I prefer manual, but it's your choice.
A little OTT perhaps, but no more so than charging £1,800 + £250 excess for a mechanical warranty. Yes, I'm aware of the Porsche problems, but fortunately an extended warranty for a Porsche 996 isn't such a rip-off. In fact it isn't that much more than the amount BMW were asking to cover my 318is a couple of years ago. I agree that the M3 is great, I'd have one tomorrow, but for the fact that when BMW want £1,800 + £250 excess to cover it against mechanical failure I have to ask myself if they know something noone else does. I'm certainly not prepared to hand over £1,800 a year on the offchance that my car breaks down... and especially if the first £250 of any repair has to come out of my pocket too. Supposing you have a load of small faults? None of them are covered but you've forked out £1,800! Being charged more to cover the mechanicals than many drivers pay to insure the car against wrapping it round a tree it doesn't suggest to me that BMW has a great deal of confidence in their 'ultimate driving machine'. It makes me feel sad because, as I said, I have always been a BMW fan, but part of the magic was that their confidence in providing a great warranty at a reasonable price made you feel even better about the car, but that's gone now. Perhaps they saw "brand new customers only" and thought "I know, brand new cars only"!
Sorry if I come across like an arse... I'm just sad that something that was great isn't anymore.
Sorry if I come across like an arse... I'm just sad that something that was great isn't anymore.
Have to agree with Mitch on that one!
Even though this particular topic has been done to death here in the past...the whole thing is no more than a cynical manoeuvre to make the prospect of buying a secondhand M-BMW very unattractive...with the motive of securing more NEW car sales. BMW is in the business of selling new cars...not repairing old ones! It is hardly rocket science!
In the throw-away/consume-more-and-more society that we are evermore led to believe is what we should aspire to it is, of course, an obvious strategy to make the prospect of a secondhand car so financially unpalatable that people will be begin to think: "Well, is it really worth it?...I may as well just buy a new one!"
I wouldn't even put it past someone to have put about these 'scares' (eg. VANOS, Con-rods etc on various cars)... and artifically, grossly, inflate repair costs (which of course they themselves determine!) for the very same purposes.
Y'see how easy it is?
Even though this particular topic has been done to death here in the past...the whole thing is no more than a cynical manoeuvre to make the prospect of buying a secondhand M-BMW very unattractive...with the motive of securing more NEW car sales. BMW is in the business of selling new cars...not repairing old ones! It is hardly rocket science!
In the throw-away/consume-more-and-more society that we are evermore led to believe is what we should aspire to it is, of course, an obvious strategy to make the prospect of a secondhand car so financially unpalatable that people will be begin to think: "Well, is it really worth it?...I may as well just buy a new one!"
I wouldn't even put it past someone to have put about these 'scares' (eg. VANOS, Con-rods etc on various cars)... and artifically, grossly, inflate repair costs (which of course they themselves determine!) for the very same purposes.
Y'see how easy it is?
Edited by derin100 on Tuesday 28th November 22:18
Get yourself registered on www.bm3w.co.uk for the correct answers to your question. There is loads of speculative talk on PH and a lot of it is ill-informed. You will get the correct answers on BM3W along with a comprehensive buyer's guide. Buy the right M3 by being well-informed and you will get a thoroughly reliable and enjoyable car.
MitchT said:
A little OTT perhaps, but no more so than charging £1,800 + £250 excess for a mechanical warranty. Yes, I'm aware of the Porsche problems, but fortunately an extended warranty for a Porsche 996 isn't such a rip-off. In fact it isn't that much more than the amount BMW were asking to cover my 318is a couple of years ago. I agree that the M3 is great, I'd have one tomorrow, but for the fact that when BMW want £1,800 + £250 excess to cover it against mechanical failure I have to ask myself if they know something noone else does. I'm certainly not prepared to hand over £1,800 a year on the offchance that my car breaks down... and especially if the first £250 of any repair has to come out of my pocket too. Supposing you have a load of small faults? None of them are covered but you've forked out £1,800! Being charged more to cover the mechanicals than many drivers pay to insure the car against wrapping it round a tree it doesn't suggest to me that BMW has a great deal of confidence in their 'ultimate driving machine'. It makes me feel sad because, as I said, I have always been a BMW fan, but part of the magic was that their confidence in providing a great warranty at a reasonable price made you feel even better about the car, but that's gone now. Perhaps they saw "brand new customers only" and thought "I know, brand new cars only"!
Sorry if I come across like an arse... I'm just sad that something that was great isn't anymore.
Sorry if I come across like an arse... I'm just sad that something that was great isn't anymore.
The warranty is £1850 pa if the car is in excess of 60k miles. Upto this point the warranty is £1k pa.
That's ok then ...bargain. The warranty price is a joke indicating either woeful reliability or dealer repair. I don't think it is BMW's long term interest of selling new cars if their flagship models become steep depreciators due to limited (cost prohibitive) manufacturer support after the intial warranty has expired. I struggle to see how either an M3 or M5 could incur £1850 p.a of covered warranty work year on year. Compared to porsche selling similar highly stressed performance cars with a warranty of c.£900 and 10 years cover the BMW cover is laughable. As a previous poster said the approved used car thing has gone up in smoke now, it used to feel like buying a new car for 12 mths, now it is seals not covered, adjustments not covered blah blah blah.
Cut the dealers out used indies and oem suppliers then they'll get more reasonable. In meantime roll on the £9k e39 M5!
Cut the dealers out used indies and oem suppliers then they'll get more reasonable. In meantime roll on the £9k e39 M5!
These cars are very expensive to run tyres, brakes, discs, pads, petrol, warranty,major services and depreciation,costs that are not that far off 996 turbo money. Also when things do go wrong they aren't cheap to fix.
Even though mine was problem free it is the most expensive car I've ever ran so if you do lots of miles and dont have deep pockets i would try something else.
Even though mine was problem free it is the most expensive car I've ever ran so if you do lots of miles and dont have deep pockets i would try something else.
Edited by rob05 on Wednesday 29th November 19:08
Disagree Rob. Oil service is peanuts and inspection service though £800 only comes up every two years if you're doing 15,000 or so pa and don't abuse the car. I've got 24,000 miles out of a set of tyres and get 27 mpg. Unless you punish the car on a track it's very cheap tp run in performance car terms.
Edited by deutscher on Thursday 30th November 08:36
Thanks everyone for their replies, it seems there is a lot of controversy over the warranty, when it runs out do most people renew for the £1k or just hope that the costs each year don't amount to over £1.25???
What are the typical things that tend to go wrong that get sorted under the warranty.
It seems to me that you are better off going without and chancing your luck as £1.25k is a lot each year on the off chance??
My friend is off to look sometime over the next few days so it has given him some useful pointers to think about.
Many thanks,
Jim
What are the typical things that tend to go wrong that get sorted under the warranty.
It seems to me that you are better off going without and chancing your luck as £1.25k is a lot each year on the off chance??
My friend is off to look sometime over the next few days so it has given him some useful pointers to think about.
Many thanks,
Jim
Sod the warranty and just do your homework. Buy from a registered stealer and they'll give you a years warranty anyway.
I do high mileage, but to me it just didn't make sense to fork out £2k pa "just in case". I smarted when it got uplifted a couple of years back from £750 to £900, and then the doubling to £1.8k was just too much. So now they've lost my servicing, my repairs and my future business. Good move!
I do high mileage, but to me it just didn't make sense to fork out £2k pa "just in case". I smarted when it got uplifted a couple of years back from £750 to £900, and then the doubling to £1.8k was just too much. So now they've lost my servicing, my repairs and my future business. Good move!
deutscher said:
Oil service is peanuts and inspection service though £800 only comes up every two years if you're doing 15,000 or so pa and don't abuse the car.
I was seriously thinking of buying an E46 M3 until the warranty price scared me off. I wasn't prepared to fork out such a lot every year but I was also scared that BMW, in charging so much, were clearly fearful of the consequential cost of some underlying problem that they didn't want to own up to publicly. Anyway, you say an £800 inspection crops up every two years if you're doing 15,000 miles... but what if, like me, you're only doing 5,000 miles pa? Does that mean I'd only have the £800 inspection once every six years or is there a maximum time that the car can go between inspections regardless of how few miles it is driven?
If you don't meet the mileage criteria you must get it serviced every 18 months - still very cheap. You could go 3 years without an Inspection service.
I've had mine nearly five years now (since new). I renewed the warranty at the start of the fourth year when it was only £500, but didn't renew at the silly price at the start of the fifth year.
Never had any problems.
I've had mine nearly five years now (since new). I renewed the warranty at the start of the fourth year when it was only £500, but didn't renew at the silly price at the start of the fifth year.
Never had any problems.
Just read the comment about how expensive the M3 is to own and feel compelled to add my experience, even though I am about to sell it. Yes it suffers depreciation (what nice car doesnt - other than some Ferraris), yes if you drive it quick you might struggle to get more than 300 miles out of a tank. Other than that, nada (I've had new tyres - puncture!), servicing is reasonable and so far its been trouble free. Cracking car and would defintely recommend M3 ownership whether it be new or secondhand. My best car ever and I am nervous my new car will fail to top it.
I must admit, if it was simply a case of an oil change every 18 months at a cost of £200, and an £800 service every three years, I'd be sorely tempted. I suppose as long as I could ascertain that the conrod issue wasn't a factor with a car that I was looking to purchase there wouldn't be a reason not to buy it. When I do buy my next car it will be next September when the company I work for relocates to just 15 minutes walk from my home. I will then swap my sensible 318is for something completely crazy that I will just use for fun. My daily commute will be done on foot. With this in mind, are there any issues I should be aware of with a car that may spend five days out of every week sitting unused?
MitchT said:
1. I suppose as long as I could ascertain that the conrod issue wasn't a factor with a car that I was looking to purchase there wouldn't be a reason not to buy it.
2. With this in mind, are there any issues I should be aware of with a car that may spend five days out of every week sitting unused?
1. Give BMW the VIN and they will confirm the recall con-rod work was done.
2. The M3 is not a temperamental car and you will have no problem.
There seems to be a lot of wishful talk about costs here so here are some points i have found to be true.
If you were to buy this car new then compared to other performance cars go they are reasonable if you drive then correctly but as second or third hand buy they are a different proposition.
When the time comes expect to pay 1k for discs and pads up to 2k for the warranty £700 for a decent set of tyres. Diffs will almost certainly start grinding well before the 50k mark and vanos problems sooner or later.
I never thrashed mine yet the best i could get once the service indicator was reset to 16thmls was a real 9 thousand and the only way it will do 300 miles on a full tank is if you do motorway miles only other wise real world driving is 22mpg with hard driving returning around 18-19mpg
Then there's the depreciation which comes in at around 400-500 a month depending on what price you paid,mine cost me 27k in May and i sold it 2 weeks ago for 21.5k
Lastly the warranty is a rip off but unless you have had the car from new can you really risk not having it?And forget aftermarket ones they are renowned for looking for ways not to pay out when the bills are big.
Be prepared for DEEP pockets and if that isn't the case then you have been lucky.
They are a great car and i really mean that but they certainly are not a cheap run and i dont class 5thmls a year as running a car,more of a Sunday drive then in that case it wont be expensive if you buy an approved BMW car.
If you were to buy this car new then compared to other performance cars go they are reasonable if you drive then correctly but as second or third hand buy they are a different proposition.
When the time comes expect to pay 1k for discs and pads up to 2k for the warranty £700 for a decent set of tyres. Diffs will almost certainly start grinding well before the 50k mark and vanos problems sooner or later.
I never thrashed mine yet the best i could get once the service indicator was reset to 16thmls was a real 9 thousand and the only way it will do 300 miles on a full tank is if you do motorway miles only other wise real world driving is 22mpg with hard driving returning around 18-19mpg
Then there's the depreciation which comes in at around 400-500 a month depending on what price you paid,mine cost me 27k in May and i sold it 2 weeks ago for 21.5k
Lastly the warranty is a rip off but unless you have had the car from new can you really risk not having it?And forget aftermarket ones they are renowned for looking for ways not to pay out when the bills are big.
Be prepared for DEEP pockets and if that isn't the case then you have been lucky.
They are a great car and i really mean that but they certainly are not a cheap run and i dont class 5thmls a year as running a car,more of a Sunday drive then in that case it wont be expensive if you buy an approved BMW car.
Edited by rob05 on Thursday 30th November 19:01
Rob
If you want economy motoring, buy a VW Polo diesel.
If you want a performance car at a sensible cost, buy an M3.
If you were getting 22mpg in "normal" driving you've got a very heavy right foot.
You turned your car around in a short period, so a big hit is normal.
I paid £41k for my M3 and 55 months later it's worth £19k. That's £400 month or looked at another way, nearly 50% of purchase price after almost 5 years. Pretty damn good I'd say.
If you want economy motoring, buy a VW Polo diesel.
If you want a performance car at a sensible cost, buy an M3.
If you were getting 22mpg in "normal" driving you've got a very heavy right foot.
You turned your car around in a short period, so a big hit is normal.
I paid £41k for my M3 and 55 months later it's worth £19k. That's £400 month or looked at another way, nearly 50% of purchase price after almost 5 years. Pretty damn good I'd say.
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