M6 & M5 - truly mental?
Discussion
Tried to match an M6 on the A1M the other day. Not a race or anything, but it was clear that the driver of the M6 wanted to make progress when getting off the A1M. He punched it and exited the motorway onto a parallel slip-road. I kicked mine down to see how fast they really are....
All I can say is - do they have time warp or teleport technology. One second its besides you, the next you are going for it and the M6 is a good 200 metres down the road. Man, those things are mental....
So, are they as fast as they seem?
All I can say is - do they have time warp or teleport technology. One second its besides you, the next you are going for it and the M6 is a good 200 metres down the road. Man, those things are mental....
So, are they as fast as they seem?
Adamt's E60 M5 v. Lord Daz's 996 X50 tt @ Bruntingthorpe some time ago
...M5 4 up, to boot...M5 kept broad pace to about 150.
The changes were a bit brutal but it was unbelievable.
Having said that, it's surprising just how easily 1500-1800 kilos can slope off once momentum's had it's wicked way.
Not too many moons ago, an (E39 based) Alpina B10 V8S kept it's nose in with ye olde beetle which (although only firing on turquoise dilithium) meant some thoroughly agreeable lopage was imbibed.
To wit, I believe many power sources with outputs as modest as 300+ bhp can, once rolling, party with varying degrees of undoubtedly stellar conviction.
...M5 4 up, to boot...M5 kept broad pace to about 150.
The changes were a bit brutal but it was unbelievable.
Having said that, it's surprising just how easily 1500-1800 kilos can slope off once momentum's had it's wicked way.
Not too many moons ago, an (E39 based) Alpina B10 V8S kept it's nose in with ye olde beetle which (although only firing on turquoise dilithium) meant some thoroughly agreeable lopage was imbibed.
To wit, I believe many power sources with outputs as modest as 300+ bhp can, once rolling, party with varying degrees of undoubtedly stellar conviction.
Something odd there - Angus got the drop, emphatically so - on the M5 but the way it caught up?
Either Das Gixer was caught unexpectedly in conflagrante by an on board ladyboy or the Beemer was a Hartge number.
Difficult to see from the clip but did the old '65 haul back any up the runway?
Confusion reigns...
hythe said:
They're only mental if you get the pre-flight setup right or are quick with the "M" button. I prefer a nice slug of torque with my power - my B5 does that job nicely - gawd help the M6 driver who underestimates the 5er Touring next to him!
Oh dear! Press Power when you start the car. Use the M button whenever you feel like it with whatever settings you give it.
Teh B5 is certainly quick, especially once it is rolling, but all the M5/6 driver needs to do is click down a few cogs and he will leave the B5 behind. I have driven the B5 and I know it's not as quick as the M cars.
I do agree that an unwary driver would underestimate the B5 at his peril though.
Not looking for a willy waving contest, but as Zod states, if you set off in Full Power mode (507 horses or close to 550 with DMS) which is the mode i'm in all the time i'm driving the car also normally in S5 (gearchange ferocity & speed) this is plenty fast enough for all but the fastest & bravest suitors. If you're on track or on very twisty roads, a quick press of the M-Button (takes a fraction of a second) & you have assuming you've set the defaults which i & i'm sure most M5 drivers have a lunatic machine.
Plenty of cars are no doubt quicker, but almost all of those are only quicker round a track & even then the M5 set-up correctly can play with even the very big boys. On regualar roads with all the dnagers & threats, the M5 is right up there.
I've never driven a B5 so can't comment on how goo/quick they are but given my previous car being a DMS 535d M-Sport could hit 60 in 5.5secs, many cars are quick enough to startle an M5 if someone gets the jump (which does happen).
Plenty of cars are no doubt quicker, but almost all of those are only quicker round a track & even then the M5 set-up correctly can play with even the very big boys. On regualar roads with all the dnagers & threats, the M5 is right up there.
I've never driven a B5 so can't comment on how goo/quick they are but given my previous car being a DMS 535d M-Sport could hit 60 in 5.5secs, many cars are quick enough to startle an M5 if someone gets the jump (which does happen).
Look, I'm a big fan of the M5/6 also, but I have a few pet peeves on the subject:
1. What's the point of P400 mode? Nobody claims to use it and it doesn't seem to help fuel economy much...
2. While we're on the subject of fuel economy/range - these cars are just not good enough in this respect, I'm afraid
3. Torque, people! The M-cars are quick when you have time to drop a couple of cogs or are already on it, but in the cut and thrust of daily driving, if someone in a diesel can outpull you into a gap, what's the point of having a fast car?
4. The brakes (also a B5 fault, admittedly) - they seem to stop the car well enough, but clearly not up to track work and marginal on a truly challenging road
The M5 and M6 clearly handle better and ride worse than a B5, for example, which reflects the differing concepts - the M's are big cars playing at being sports cars, while the B's are good ol' fashioned hot rods.
Finally, the stats bear out that the M5 and B5 have similar performance flat out from standstill, to both 60 and 100mph - above 100, the M5 is probably a touch faster, until it clonks into the speed limiter.
Point is, both types are savagely quick, but in very different ways. And my B5 Touring will be nearly 2 years old by the time the first M5 Tourings are delivered.
1. What's the point of P400 mode? Nobody claims to use it and it doesn't seem to help fuel economy much...
2. While we're on the subject of fuel economy/range - these cars are just not good enough in this respect, I'm afraid
3. Torque, people! The M-cars are quick when you have time to drop a couple of cogs or are already on it, but in the cut and thrust of daily driving, if someone in a diesel can outpull you into a gap, what's the point of having a fast car?
4. The brakes (also a B5 fault, admittedly) - they seem to stop the car well enough, but clearly not up to track work and marginal on a truly challenging road
The M5 and M6 clearly handle better and ride worse than a B5, for example, which reflects the differing concepts - the M's are big cars playing at being sports cars, while the B's are good ol' fashioned hot rods.
Finally, the stats bear out that the M5 and B5 have similar performance flat out from standstill, to both 60 and 100mph - above 100, the M5 is probably a touch faster, until it clonks into the speed limiter.
Point is, both types are savagely quick, but in very different ways. And my B5 Touring will be nearly 2 years old by the time the first M5 Tourings are delivered.
hythe said:
Look, I'm a big fan of the M5/6 also, but I have a few pet peeves on the subject:
1. What's the point of P400 mode? Nobody claims to use it and it doesn't seem to help fuel economy much...
2. While we're on the subject of fuel economy/range - these cars are just not good enough in this respect, I'm afraid
3. Torque, people! The M-cars are quick when you have time to drop a couple of cogs or are already on it, but in the cut and thrust of daily driving, if someone in a diesel can outpull you into a gap, what's the point of having a fast car?
4. The brakes (also a B5 fault, admittedly) - they seem to stop the car well enough, but clearly not up to track work and marginal on a truly challenging road
The M5 and M6 clearly handle better and ride worse than a B5, for example, which reflects the differing concepts - the M's are big cars playing at being sports cars, while the B's are good ol' fashioned hot rods.
Finally, the stats bear out that the M5 and B5 have similar performance flat out from standstill, to both 60 and 100mph - above 100, the M5 is probably a touch faster, until it clonks into the speed limiter.
Point is, both types are savagely quick, but in very different ways. And my B5 Touring will be nearly 2 years old by the time the first M5 Tourings are delivered.
Fuel economy and range are abysmal in town, but I get around 300 miles out of a tank in fast motorway driving (22 mpg). 1. What's the point of P400 mode? Nobody claims to use it and it doesn't seem to help fuel economy much...
2. While we're on the subject of fuel economy/range - these cars are just not good enough in this respect, I'm afraid
3. Torque, people! The M-cars are quick when you have time to drop a couple of cogs or are already on it, but in the cut and thrust of daily driving, if someone in a diesel can outpull you into a gap, what's the point of having a fast car?
4. The brakes (also a B5 fault, admittedly) - they seem to stop the car well enough, but clearly not up to track work and marginal on a truly challenging road
The M5 and M6 clearly handle better and ride worse than a B5, for example, which reflects the differing concepts - the M's are big cars playing at being sports cars, while the B's are good ol' fashioned hot rods.
Finally, the stats bear out that the M5 and B5 have similar performance flat out from standstill, to both 60 and 100mph - above 100, the M5 is probably a touch faster, until it clonks into the speed limiter.
Point is, both types are savagely quick, but in very different ways. And my B5 Touring will be nearly 2 years old by the time the first M5 Tourings are delivered.
You never have the problem of being outdragged into a gap if you are used to driving this kind of car. It is just second nature to change down to second, third or fourth (depending on starting speed) and squirt into the gap.
These cars are very much a matter of personal taste and my own taste preferred the M5 by a significant margin. I was impressed by the B5, but not engaged by it.
hythe said:
Look, I'm a big fan of the M5/6 also, but I have a few pet peeves on the subject:
1. What's the point of P400 mode? Nobody claims to use it and it doesn't seem to help fuel economy much...
2. While we're on the subject of fuel economy/range - these cars are just not good enough in this respect, I'm afraid
3. Torque, people! The M-cars are quick when you have time to drop a couple of cogs or are already on it, but in the cut and thrust of daily driving, if someone in a diesel can outpull you into a gap, what's the point of having a fast car?
4. The brakes (also a B5 fault, admittedly) - they seem to stop the car well enough, but clearly not up to track work and marginal on a truly challenging road
The M5 and M6 clearly handle better and ride worse than a B5, for example, which reflects the differing concepts - the M's are big cars playing at being sports cars, while the B's are good ol' fashioned hot rods.
Finally, the stats bear out that the M5 and B5 have similar performance flat out from standstill, to both 60 and 100mph - above 100, the M5 is probably a touch faster, until it clonks into the speed limiter.
Point is, both types are savagely quick, but in very different ways. And my B5 Touring will be nearly 2 years old by the time the first M5 Tourings are delivered.
1. What's the point of P400 mode? Nobody claims to use it and it doesn't seem to help fuel economy much...
2. While we're on the subject of fuel economy/range - these cars are just not good enough in this respect, I'm afraid
3. Torque, people! The M-cars are quick when you have time to drop a couple of cogs or are already on it, but in the cut and thrust of daily driving, if someone in a diesel can outpull you into a gap, what's the point of having a fast car?
4. The brakes (also a B5 fault, admittedly) - they seem to stop the car well enough, but clearly not up to track work and marginal on a truly challenging road
The M5 and M6 clearly handle better and ride worse than a B5, for example, which reflects the differing concepts - the M's are big cars playing at being sports cars, while the B's are good ol' fashioned hot rods.
Finally, the stats bear out that the M5 and B5 have similar performance flat out from standstill, to both 60 and 100mph - above 100, the M5 is probably a touch faster, until it clonks into the speed limiter.
Point is, both types are savagely quick, but in very different ways. And my B5 Touring will be nearly 2 years old by the time the first M5 Tourings are delivered.
1. I to have no idea. I'm sure BMW have a valid reason but i don't know why. I also can't work out why the car insists on defaulting to P400 everytime you start the car. I have caught myself out the odd time when i've buried the loud pedal & thought "the car does not feel quite as fast" & then realised i'd not set to full power. However i very rarely forget to engage warp factor now whenever i start the car.
2. This again is a failing but did BMW want this car to be a mile munching cruiser more like the Alpinas & say the 545/550i or did they want it more akin to a sportier car, thus limiting the tank size to save weight. I can get 300miles from a tank & also average 22-23MPG when cruising at say 80-90MPH, however the minute you bury the pedal the fuel needle starts to move.
3. As regards torque, the M5 has plenty & the way it's delivered is amazing. My previous but one car was a higly modified RS6 which produced 553BHP & 554lbsft, but it was no quicker to 60, 100 or 150 than the M5 so believe me that torque aint everything. Also you don't have to be at 6K+RPM to get a surge of power. My car pulls like a train from 2K & has a pleasant power band once you hit about 6K & it just keeps pulling all the way up to the limiter at 8250RPM.
4. Never had a problem with my brakes (they're stock) & i've sent her round the Ring for 25+ laps back in May & have a few more track events left this year. No sign of fade although the pads did dirty up my wheels a whole lot.
I'd sacrafice ride quality for handling any day of the week (to a limit) & although as i said earlier, their are better cars out their, for the all-round practicality, speed, acceleration, handling & toys, i don't think their's a car out their that gets very close to the M5 (IMHO).
M5-M6 mental??? no,both reasonably quick cars--0-150,between 21-23 secs and therefore
much the same as 996 Turbo,and 997, Lambo Merci and Callardo,SL600[standard],SL55[24sec],Vette C6 7.0,Ferrari 360,430,575,550,Scaglispagetti.Astons are all somewhat slower though.Oh,I might add SL65 19ish secs[standared spec].
Mark
much the same as 996 Turbo,and 997, Lambo Merci and Callardo,SL600[standard],SL55[24sec],Vette C6 7.0,Ferrari 360,430,575,550,Scaglispagetti.Astons are all somewhat slower though.Oh,I might add SL65 19ish secs[standared spec].
Mark
w8pmc said:
My car pulls like a train from 2K & has a pleasant power band once you hit about 6K & it just keeps pulling all the way up to the limiter at 8250RPM.
I'd sacrafice ride quality for handling any day of the week (to a limit) & although as i said earlier, their are better cars out their, for the all-round practicality, speed, acceleration, handling & toys, i don't think their's a car out their that gets very close to the M5 (IMHO).
I'd sacrafice ride quality for handling any day of the week (to a limit) & although as i said earlier, their are better cars out their, for the all-round practicality, speed, acceleration, handling & toys, i don't think their's a car out their that gets very close to the M5 (IMHO).
On your first point, fair enough, though I guess it just depends on your mental calibration - mid-range on the B5 is between about 1800rpm and 5000rpm, in which band the torque is just mental - I've had wheelspin in the wet at 100mph when putting my foot down.
On your second point, I suppose it's really a question of lifestyle, means and garage space. Personally, my preferred solution (once I build a second garage) is an Exige S or 240, to add to the Alpina. Comfort, luxury, power and 28mpg for longer journeys, with the estate's practicality when needed, plus handling and B-road speed from the Lotus, the like of which no current BMW could approach...
IMHO, the M5's engine is a gem in search of a lighter vehicle.
hythe said:
w8pmc said:
My car pulls like a train from 2K & has a pleasant power band once you hit about 6K & it just keeps pulling all the way up to the limiter at 8250RPM.
I'd sacrafice ride quality for handling any day of the week (to a limit) & although as i said earlier, their are better cars out their, for the all-round practicality, speed, acceleration, handling & toys, i don't think their's a car out their that gets very close to the M5 (IMHO).
I'd sacrafice ride quality for handling any day of the week (to a limit) & although as i said earlier, their are better cars out their, for the all-round practicality, speed, acceleration, handling & toys, i don't think their's a car out their that gets very close to the M5 (IMHO).
On your first point, fair enough, though I guess it just depends on your mental calibration - mid-range on the B5 is between about 1800rpm and 5000rpm, in which band the torque is just mental - I've had wheelspin in the wet at 100mph when putting my foot down.
On your second point, I suppose it's really a question of lifestyle, means and garage space. Personally, my preferred solution (once I build a second garage) is an Exige S or 240, to add to the Alpina. Comfort, luxury, power and 28mpg for longer journeys, with the estate's practicality when needed, plus handling and B-road speed from the Lotus, the like of which no current BMW could approach...
IMHO, the M5's engine is a gem in search of a lighter vehicle.
Totally agree.
If the wife would allow me to spend more time on track, i'd probably ditch the M5, get a newish Audi A5/6 TDI & but a stripped CSL & prep totally for track, but i have to get all my track kicks, b-road hacks, family shifting & business trips in the one car so the M5 more than satisfies the bill.
M6 vs Gallardo with video for those interested
www.m5board.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=859965#post859965
www.m5board.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=859965#post859965
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