Decision time E34 M5 or E36 M3???
Discussion
The time has come I think to part with my Z3M. Much that I hate to as it's a great motor but I would like to free up some money for a house purchase.
I have been bitten by the ///M bug though and want a replacement that is similar in performance, a bit more practical and around the £5k mark so the obvious choice is the E36 M3. You get that lovely 3.0/3.2 straight six that for me is the best feature of my Z3M plus a decent sized everyday saloon to boot.
Then I got thinking about the E34 M5. Similar sort of money and similar performance wise.
The car needs to be decent on the track too as I am getting rid of my Integrale track toy as well (down to 1 car instead of 3!).
I suppose it boils down to how good is the E34 M5 compared to the E36 M3?
Any problems with either?
I know about the VANOS issues on the M3 Evo's, I have just had mine replaced on the Z3M (under warranty). I don't particularly want a £2kish bill later on so looks like the earlier 3.0 is a better option with more reliable single VANOS.
What about the E34? Any problems with them worth mentioning (I know of the early Nikasil lining problems)? and are they any good on track? 3.6 or 3.8? I know the later 3.8's with Nurberg suspension can be expensive to put right if the leveling system goes (or ditch the suspension cheaply) but anything else worth noting?
I look forward hearing peoples experiences of either and especially anybody who has owned both.
Cheers,
Colin
I have been bitten by the ///M bug though and want a replacement that is similar in performance, a bit more practical and around the £5k mark so the obvious choice is the E36 M3. You get that lovely 3.0/3.2 straight six that for me is the best feature of my Z3M plus a decent sized everyday saloon to boot.
Then I got thinking about the E34 M5. Similar sort of money and similar performance wise.
The car needs to be decent on the track too as I am getting rid of my Integrale track toy as well (down to 1 car instead of 3!).
I suppose it boils down to how good is the E34 M5 compared to the E36 M3?
Any problems with either?
I know about the VANOS issues on the M3 Evo's, I have just had mine replaced on the Z3M (under warranty). I don't particularly want a £2kish bill later on so looks like the earlier 3.0 is a better option with more reliable single VANOS.
What about the E34? Any problems with them worth mentioning (I know of the early Nikasil lining problems)? and are they any good on track? 3.6 or 3.8? I know the later 3.8's with Nurberg suspension can be expensive to put right if the leveling system goes (or ditch the suspension cheaply) but anything else worth noting?
I look forward hearing peoples experiences of either and especially anybody who has owned both.
Cheers,
Colin
r5gttgaz said:
I'd get the M5 as the E36 was only given an M badge so it would sell.
Why did you waste the time and effort to post such drivel?
As for the E36, the Vanos trouble on the EVO is over hyped. Yes it exists but nowhere near as bad as urban myth has made it out to be.
The E36 is lighter (ditch the Vaders and you'll save nearly 20kg alone), cheaper on parts and they are far more mods available. As a track tool I'd go for the M3 anyday. Have you seen the prices of M5 brake discs?! Milltek and Supersprint both make decat pipes and rear boxes that are easily good enough for everyday road use. ECU remaps/chips are easily available from ChippedUK & E-maps. The race chip for my 3.0 cost £100
Thanks for the replies so far.
Much as I like the E34 it seems tuning parts are not easily found and they are more expensive to run than an E36...unless anyone else has some input on this?
As for the E36 not being a proper ///M...well I don't care what badge it has on it as long as it has a power to weight of over 200bhp/ton, RWD, LSD, handles reasonably well (or can be made to cheaply), fairly reliable and can be used everyday.
Much as I like the E34 it seems tuning parts are not easily found and they are more expensive to run than an E36...unless anyone else has some input on this?
As for the E36 not being a proper ///M...well I don't care what badge it has on it as long as it has a power to weight of over 200bhp/ton, RWD, LSD, handles reasonably well (or can be made to cheaply), fairly reliable and can be used everyday.
naetype said:
r5gttgaz said:
I'd get the M5 as the E36 was only given an M badge so it would sell.
Why did you waste the time and effort to post such drivel?
I think it all depends on what you really want from a car. Ok i know the e36 M3 is the most sucessfull selling M car yet, thus people thinking the way they do as posted above. But please don't underestimate these machines, they are VERY capable performance cars and i've managed to show a clean set of heils to other machinery that drivers think they should be keeping up or out pacing me.
Now i'm quite fortuniate as i've driven M5's (even the brand new e60) and If i'd an unlimited amount of money i'd have every single model in the M5 range, even back to the first M car for the road, the e12 M535i. For me they do everything VERY WELL. If your after something with 4 doors and loads of luggage space go for the M5, but buy the best the best you can afford. These will generally be more looked after than the M3's.
With reguards to the M3, if you want the best i'd suggest spending upwards of £8+k. This will generally put you in the catogory of well looked after cars (like mine
). As your probably well aware people talk of VANOS issues, well to put this into perspective for you my little gem has now done 100k on the origional VANOS and their still working fine although me being me, i'm going to replace them soon as a bit of preventative maintenance. Whatever car you do decide on you'll be very happy with.
Hope this info is of any help and happy motoring.
M3John
No experience of the E36 but I had an E34 3.8 M5 for 4 years and tho expensive in general maintenance was a terrific ownership experience. There are two things to be said about the M5. Firstlt if warmed up correctly then on average you will be driving 15 minutes before the car is ready to go full beans. Secondly it it fairly peaky ie the power is there but you have to stretch the rev range to find it. As for taking it on track I never did with mine but as long as you can stomach the costs I reckon it would be a blast. I am sure you will enjoye either one but make no mistake the m5 is pricey to run.
I'd consider an E36 M3 GT if you can find a decent example. 295 bhp and and a bit of exclusivity if you can manage to get used to the BRG paintwork.
Bought mine a year ago and its been excellent .... its done about 5 UK track days and 2 Ring trips and has never failed to embarass far more expensive machinary. All you need do is get a decent set of coilovers fitted, Pagid Yellows, braided hoses. AP 5.1 fluid and some decent track orientated tyres and you're away!
Bought mine a year ago and its been excellent .... its done about 5 UK track days and 2 Ring trips and has never failed to embarass far more expensive machinary. All you need do is get a decent set of coilovers fitted, Pagid Yellows, braided hoses. AP 5.1 fluid and some decent track orientated tyres and you're away!
Running costs will be the main issue I should imagine, there are some seriously nice M5s out there for pocket money, and with good reason. MPG ave will be around 22, rear exhaust £900, blowing exhaust manifold gasket means an engine out repair, self levelling suspension issues requires a remortgage. But what a car, feels like a hotrod with that lumpy tickover and the more you chuck em at a bend the more they like it, a real Jekyll and Hyde car.
M3? they're 10 a penny again for good reason, they are practically ideal, you can get 2 or 4 doors, Vanos or non Vanos, reasonable mpg and pretty cheap running costs for a performance machine. Finding a straight one is the trick, PH classifieds is a good start.
Forgot to say, the E34 is IMO one of the last handsome BMWs ever made and the early ones were handbuilt which is nice
M3? they're 10 a penny again for good reason, they are practically ideal, you can get 2 or 4 doors, Vanos or non Vanos, reasonable mpg and pretty cheap running costs for a performance machine. Finding a straight one is the trick, PH classifieds is a good start.
Forgot to say, the E34 is IMO one of the last handsome BMWs ever made and the early ones were handbuilt which is nice
Edited by apache on Friday 8th September 14:43
apache said:
...stuff...
Forgot to say, the E34 is IMO one of the last handsome BMWs ever made and the early ones were handbuilt which is nice
Forgot to say, the E34 is IMO one of the last handsome BMWs ever made and the early ones were handbuilt which is nice
Edited by apache on Friday 8th September 14:43
All the e34 M5 were handbuilt (yes, even the late 1995 3.8 6-speed ones) - the e39 was and the e60 is made by überrobotischermachiner!
There's a thriving e34 M5 forum on www.m5board.com/vbulletin and the lads there will tell you straight about what to expect to pay, budget for maintenance, and also what to look out for when buying one.
BTW, the reason I chose the e34 M5 over the e36 M3 was two-fold. Firstly it was the fact that I'd never seen one on track (I used to do a track day a month), secondly it was the lack of leg room in the rear of the e36. If I can't be comfortable in the rear, then I don't expect my passengers will be either, especially the way I drive
Although I did very nearly buy a e28 M5 as it was £5k cheaper at the time and doesn't have £500/corner dampers.
Edited by mmm-five on Friday 8th September 20:27
apache said:
MPG ave will be around 22
Spot on! Averaged 21.9mpg over 50k brilliant miles in E34 3.8 M5.
If driven in the manner for which it was designed, the maintenance costs are on the high side - suspension and brake stuff wears out.
The car has a fantastic hewn-from-granite feel.
Love them
I have had the pleasure of owning 3 E34 m5's.
I currently still have 3.8 6 speed and use it on track aswell.
I did get to race my friends ZM in my 3.6 and there wasn't alot in it at all.
An E36 M3 is a brilliant performance car too.
The 3.8 M5 will and does out accelerate a 3.0 M3.
The only real big expense on the M5's is the EDC shockers which cost £500 a corner. They can last a very long time and do not need to be replaced in axle pairs.
On track the 3.8's are very very good if you know how to drive it properly.
Low end torque is in abundance and top end power is simply brilliant.
There are a few modifications you can do to a 3.8 - Schrick cams and a remap really wake these 340 bhp beasts up. H&R springs make a big difference. The car is so well developed that you really don't need to touch anything else. maybe a touring rear anti roll bar.
Supersprint and Eisenmann make some very nice exhausts - the standard item is actually very good though.
The max you want to do to the induction is fit a good panel filter (not K&N!) as the factory airbox design is simply brilliant.
Powerflex bushes are also available which on this car have a very positive effect.
The later cars came with 345mm floating discs and 4 pot calipers - they are especially good! Discs are expensive @ around £110 each for the fronts. They do last a while though.
I am going to be biased in this case, I would say go for a 3.8 m5. it's much rarer than an E36 M3, it looks meatier, more comfortable, just as quick and just aswell balanced as an m3. M5's are serious fun round the track as I've found! E34 M5's also sound amazing!
Get a good one and you'll never regret it!
Sal
I currently still have 3.8 6 speed and use it on track aswell.
I did get to race my friends ZM in my 3.6 and there wasn't alot in it at all.
An E36 M3 is a brilliant performance car too.
The 3.8 M5 will and does out accelerate a 3.0 M3.
The only real big expense on the M5's is the EDC shockers which cost £500 a corner. They can last a very long time and do not need to be replaced in axle pairs.
On track the 3.8's are very very good if you know how to drive it properly.
Low end torque is in abundance and top end power is simply brilliant.
There are a few modifications you can do to a 3.8 - Schrick cams and a remap really wake these 340 bhp beasts up. H&R springs make a big difference. The car is so well developed that you really don't need to touch anything else. maybe a touring rear anti roll bar.
Supersprint and Eisenmann make some very nice exhausts - the standard item is actually very good though.
The max you want to do to the induction is fit a good panel filter (not K&N!) as the factory airbox design is simply brilliant.
Powerflex bushes are also available which on this car have a very positive effect.
The later cars came with 345mm floating discs and 4 pot calipers - they are especially good! Discs are expensive @ around £110 each for the fronts. They do last a while though.
I am going to be biased in this case, I would say go for a 3.8 m5. it's much rarer than an E36 M3, it looks meatier, more comfortable, just as quick and just aswell balanced as an m3. M5's are serious fun round the track as I've found! E34 M5's also sound amazing!
Get a good one and you'll never regret it!
Sal
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