S65 Rod Bearings (again)
Discussion
Hi guys
I'm sure this topic has been covered before but I'm struggling to find a definitive answer. I'm looking at buying an E92 M3 which has had it's rod bearings replaced, I believe with ACL bearings. Most of these cars have now had them replaced at some point but I've yet to find people who have changed them more than once.
My question is are these intended to be "lifetime" replacement once the job is done. The car has now done 50k since they were changed and I'm wondering if they will be due to be changed again soon? Or can I can sleep easy in the knowledge they have been replaced, albeit a while ago.
I'm sure this topic has been covered before but I'm struggling to find a definitive answer. I'm looking at buying an E92 M3 which has had it's rod bearings replaced, I believe with ACL bearings. Most of these cars have now had them replaced at some point but I've yet to find people who have changed them more than once.
My question is are these intended to be "lifetime" replacement once the job is done. The car has now done 50k since they were changed and I'm wondering if they will be due to be changed again soon? Or can I can sleep easy in the knowledge they have been replaced, albeit a while ago.
asimmalik said:
My question is are these intended to be "lifetime" replacement once the job is done. The car has now done 50k since they were changed and I'm wondering if they will be due to be changed again soon? Or can I can sleep easy in the knowledge they have been replaced, albeit a while ago.
You'll get mixed opinions on this issue but here's mine: I would replace the rod bearings on any S65 M3 I bought, unless they'd been done a few hundred miles prior to purchase. That's because you have no idea how the previous owner(s) has/have treated the car. Proper warm up is vital on these engines if you want the RB's to last.Last change 50k miles ago? I would definitely want to replace and would factor that into my purchase price. Cost at a specialist is around £1500 but remember that you get a full oil/filter change and new engine mounts as part of that.
I've no experience of the S65, but have an S54 and I think the bearing shells issue is common to both versions (and probably the S85 too).
I bought my car with 76K miles and 7 previous keepers and decided to bite the bullet and get the shells replaced at 78K. They weren't too bad but half of them were showing copper so it was worth doing for peace of mind. Despite having spent many years at Sytner my Indy also fitted ACL shells which seem a popular choice.
As you don't know how the car has been treated for the last 50K miles it's a gamble, but maybe it would be £1,500 or so well spent to avoid a much bigger bill if you get a spun bearing!
I bought my car with 76K miles and 7 previous keepers and decided to bite the bullet and get the shells replaced at 78K. They weren't too bad but half of them were showing copper so it was worth doing for peace of mind. Despite having spent many years at Sytner my Indy also fitted ACL shells which seem a popular choice.
As you don't know how the car has been treated for the last 50K miles it's a gamble, but maybe it would be £1,500 or so well spent to avoid a much bigger bill if you get a spun bearing!
Hants PHer said:
You'll get mixed opinions on this issue but here's mine: I would replace the rod bearings on any S65 M3 I bought, unless they'd been done a few hundred miles prior to purchase. That's because you have no idea how the previous owner(s) has/have treated the car. Proper warm up is vital on these engines if you want the RB's to last.
Last change 50k miles ago? I would definitely want to replace and would factor that into my purchase price. Cost at a specialist is around £1500 but remember that you get a full oil/filter change and new engine mounts as part of that.
Yeh this is the line of thinking I was going with too. Good bargaining point too if nothing else, even though the seller was keen to point out they've already been done. Last change 50k miles ago? I would definitely want to replace and would factor that into my purchase price. Cost at a specialist is around £1500 but remember that you get a full oil/filter change and new engine mounts as part of that.
Hants PHer said:
asimmalik said:
My question is are these intended to be "lifetime" replacement once the job is done. The car has now done 50k since they were changed and I'm wondering if they will be due to be changed again soon? Or can I can sleep easy in the knowledge they have been replaced, albeit a while ago.
You'll get mixed opinions on this issue but here's mine: I would replace the rod bearings on any S65 M3 I bought, unless they'd been done a few hundred miles prior to purchase. That's because you have no idea how the previous owner(s) has/have treated the car. Proper warm up is vital on these engines if you want the RB's to last.Last change 50k miles ago? I would definitely want to replace and would factor that into my purchase price. Cost at a specialist is around £1500 but remember that you get a full oil/filter change and new engine mounts as part of that.
I’m not an S65 guy but I have just spent the last few days getting lost in M539’s e92 rebuild playlist and you may find it useful.
I’m not here to add any knowledge, (I personally have none) but just to point out the videos. TLDR from
watching the lot: replace rod bearings AND main bearings on the s65. He does also mention some variants of bearings but I can’t remember which.
It allegedly affects the s65 more than other engines e.g. the V10 due to the dual row timing chain (vs single) placing a slight upward pressure on the crank.
Ep3-7 covers most the engine stuff and covers the why. It gets wonderfully nerdy. Well worth a watch if you’re going to invest in an example.
https://youtu.be/UjDVOsdfXjc?si=yyFZkNQ4tSUlWUw0
I’m not here to add any knowledge, (I personally have none) but just to point out the videos. TLDR from
watching the lot: replace rod bearings AND main bearings on the s65. He does also mention some variants of bearings but I can’t remember which.
It allegedly affects the s65 more than other engines e.g. the V10 due to the dual row timing chain (vs single) placing a slight upward pressure on the crank.
Ep3-7 covers most the engine stuff and covers the why. It gets wonderfully nerdy. Well worth a watch if you’re going to invest in an example.
https://youtu.be/UjDVOsdfXjc?si=yyFZkNQ4tSUlWUw0
asimmalik said:
My question is are these intended to be "lifetime" replacement once the job is done. The car has now done 50k since they were changed and I'm wondering if they will be due to be changed again soon?
They are a wear item. Plenty of forums say around 80k if the car are warmed up sympathetically. Now you won't know how it was driven in those 50k so will want to change unless you fancy a game of bearing roulette. If you knew the owner and they always warm up their car (like I do) then should be fine.asimmalik said:
Hi guys
I'm sure this topic has been covered before but I'm struggling to find a definitive answer. I'm looking at buying an E92 M3 which has had it's rod bearings replaced, I believe with ACL bearings. Most of these cars have now had them replaced at some point but I've yet to find people who have changed them more than once.
My question is are these intended to be "lifetime" replacement once the job is done. The car has now done 50k since they were changed and I'm wondering if they will be due to be changed again soon? Or can I can sleep easy in the knowledge they have been replaced, albeit a while ago.
All you can do is ask if the previous owners warmed the car up correctly .... they may or may not be able or willing to give that info. Even then there's no gaurentees but if it were me and I had evidence that they'd been changed, then I wouldn't worry. It was the earlier cars that had a slighly different surface material on the shells ... I had a 2008 car, bearings were changed at 125k miles and at that point, showed signs of wear. It was a daily car for the majority of its life doing motorway miles which I suspect was the reason of the wear level at those higher miles ... I'm sure this topic has been covered before but I'm struggling to find a definitive answer. I'm looking at buying an E92 M3 which has had it's rod bearings replaced, I believe with ACL bearings. Most of these cars have now had them replaced at some point but I've yet to find people who have changed them more than once.
My question is are these intended to be "lifetime" replacement once the job is done. The car has now done 50k since they were changed and I'm wondering if they will be due to be changed again soon? Or can I can sleep easy in the knowledge they have been replaced, albeit a while ago.
Agree with the above, I was always going to do mine as soon as I bought it so I could be confident they'd be good, I didn't want the risk. As much as they're not cheap to do, they're not silly money so I'm happy to do them again in another 60-80k if it's worth it. Tbh, now I've owned one for a while I realise the age of these cars now there's often other jobs of equal cost that will potentially need addressing now too.
I went down a rabbit hole of main bearing issues too, from what I could gather, the cars with start stop are more susceptible to the issue because restarting the car within a couple of minuets of it being turned off means there's a part still 'under pressure' that can cause stress and failure. It was above my head a bit but it made sense.
It's a wallet drainer but I love the car! Quick pic as I'm missing it over winter
I went down a rabbit hole of main bearing issues too, from what I could gather, the cars with start stop are more susceptible to the issue because restarting the car within a couple of minuets of it being turned off means there's a part still 'under pressure' that can cause stress and failure. It was above my head a bit but it made sense.
It's a wallet drainer but I love the car! Quick pic as I'm missing it over winter
A while ago the rod bearing specs for the S65 were released and they were in line with other BMW engines.
The randomness of S65 engine failures due bearings instead points to poor quality control from the bearing manufacturer.
That being the reason BMW switched bearing manufacturer during the production run.
Myself I loved my 2 E92 M3s, easily one of the best cars I've ever owned.
If I was to buy another I would want one that has had its rod bearings recently changed by a reputable well known company or have them changed myself.
The price of owning such a great car would be to get the rod bearings changed every 50K miles just to be cautious.
The randomness of S65 engine failures due bearings instead points to poor quality control from the bearing manufacturer.
That being the reason BMW switched bearing manufacturer during the production run.
Myself I loved my 2 E92 M3s, easily one of the best cars I've ever owned.
If I was to buy another I would want one that has had its rod bearings recently changed by a reputable well known company or have them changed myself.
The price of owning such a great car would be to get the rod bearings changed every 50K miles just to be cautious.
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