Just bought a S54 M Roadster
Discussion
Delighted to return to M car world after years of absence. For context, I live in central London and don't need a car at all now the kids have grown up - our school run wagon was a C63 AMG 6.2 estate which was fun. I also have a couple of older Ferraris for fun which I barely have time to use.
So naturally I bought another fun car, and after buying and selling a few 911s which were just not fun enough I bought a 2001 S54 engined M Roadster this week. I drove these cars when they were new and they were just fun. Noticed that Chris Harris just bought one and says the same, his is an S50.
I wanted an S54 because back in the 90s I had a E36 M3 Evo with the S50 and found it a bit peaky. S54 has a bit more power and muscle lower down. Also the S50 in mine had all sorts of problems with Vanos, misfire, etc.
Anyway I've just driven it back from the dealer which was an absolute joy. What a great car. I remember the reviews at the time pointed out its flaws. Less fluid than Boxster, lively in the wet, etc. all true but now we know it's the flaws that make a car fun, which is why my 911 Turbos were brilliant but boring! Great for a daily but not for a weekend. Also, this is an absolute bargain by comparison.
I even love the bits that were considered annoying when they were new. The pull out knob for the lights, from an E30, very retro now. There was talk of body flex but it doesn't bother me and it's not shaky like some older cabrios. It sounds fantastic, real sound not piped. It's pretty fast still and feels faster. Lively tail is the suspension from the E30 M3, now a Good thing! And that engine. Love that engine. And the handling is so engaging and alive. Unlike so many cars, including M cars, it's enjoyable to drive rather than simply capable. It doesn't have the numb steering so many BMWs have been given over the years since. (Even the E46 M3 CSL had numb steering. I didn't enjoy mine, back in the day, and wouldn't buy one. Just my view.)
It's not and will never be a beautiful car I have to say, the front looks weird and a bit weak but I like the muscular rear and arches. The interior is pretty cool though in two tone. Definite shades of E30 which is now cool.
Pix to come when I am back in the car next week. I would love to hear views from other owners. It's an occasional use car and in great condition. Appreciate all the insights I have already read on this forum.
So naturally I bought another fun car, and after buying and selling a few 911s which were just not fun enough I bought a 2001 S54 engined M Roadster this week. I drove these cars when they were new and they were just fun. Noticed that Chris Harris just bought one and says the same, his is an S50.
I wanted an S54 because back in the 90s I had a E36 M3 Evo with the S50 and found it a bit peaky. S54 has a bit more power and muscle lower down. Also the S50 in mine had all sorts of problems with Vanos, misfire, etc.
Anyway I've just driven it back from the dealer which was an absolute joy. What a great car. I remember the reviews at the time pointed out its flaws. Less fluid than Boxster, lively in the wet, etc. all true but now we know it's the flaws that make a car fun, which is why my 911 Turbos were brilliant but boring! Great for a daily but not for a weekend. Also, this is an absolute bargain by comparison.
I even love the bits that were considered annoying when they were new. The pull out knob for the lights, from an E30, very retro now. There was talk of body flex but it doesn't bother me and it's not shaky like some older cabrios. It sounds fantastic, real sound not piped. It's pretty fast still and feels faster. Lively tail is the suspension from the E30 M3, now a Good thing! And that engine. Love that engine. And the handling is so engaging and alive. Unlike so many cars, including M cars, it's enjoyable to drive rather than simply capable. It doesn't have the numb steering so many BMWs have been given over the years since. (Even the E46 M3 CSL had numb steering. I didn't enjoy mine, back in the day, and wouldn't buy one. Just my view.)
It's not and will never be a beautiful car I have to say, the front looks weird and a bit weak but I like the muscular rear and arches. The interior is pretty cool though in two tone. Definite shades of E30 which is now cool.
Pix to come when I am back in the car next week. I would love to hear views from other owners. It's an occasional use car and in great condition. Appreciate all the insights I have already read on this forum.
Edited by Venosta on Wednesday 25th June 21:39
Great to hear. Did the carbon airbox make a noticeable difference? I know there is very limited room under the bonnet of these as the engines are kind of shoehorned in. Would be interested to know.
Chris Harris has stated that he is getting a shorter diff fitted. The gearing on these and so many other German cars is crazy long. That’s tempting but I’m not sure I would want to mess around that much with mine. Again any experiences would be welcome. Thank you.
Chris Harris has stated that he is getting a shorter diff fitted. The gearing on these and so many other German cars is crazy long. That’s tempting but I’m not sure I would want to mess around that much with mine. Again any experiences would be welcome. Thank you.
Venosta said:
Great to hear. Did the carbon airbox make a noticeable difference? I know there is very limited room under the bonnet of these as the engines are kind of shoehorned in. Would be interested to know.
Chris Harris has stated that he is getting a shorter diff fitted. The gearing on these and so many other German cars is crazy long. That s tempting but I m not sure I would want to mess around that much with mine. Again any experiences would be welcome. Thank you.
Decent CSL style induction noise, mine was running around 345-ish bhpChris Harris has stated that he is getting a shorter diff fitted. The gearing on these and so many other German cars is crazy long. That s tempting but I m not sure I would want to mess around that much with mine. Again any experiences would be welcome. Thank you.
Venosta said:
Great to hear. Did the carbon airbox make a noticeable difference? I know there is very limited room under the bonnet of these as the engines are kind of shoehorned in. Would be interested to know.
Chris Harris has stated that he is getting a shorter diff fitted. The gearing on these and so many other German cars is crazy long. That s tempting but I m not sure I would want to mess around that much with mine. Again any experiences would be welcome. Thank you.
Diff choice will depend on whether you want it for track days only, or want to drive it daily like I did.Chris Harris has stated that he is getting a shorter diff fitted. The gearing on these and so many other German cars is crazy long. That s tempting but I m not sure I would want to mess around that much with mine. Again any experiences would be welcome. Thank you.
Wouldn't really want a shorter 5th/6th gear for the motorway commutes I was doing...and vmaxing it at 167mph GPS in 5th on the autobahn (rev limited, and 6th is electronic 160mph on the speedo limit). Also 5th gear was just about right for hitting 150mph before braking for Schwedenkreuz.
Might have to see what I can do to remove the 6th gear limiter once I have the supercharger installed - which will be a couple of months after a lower mileage engine and stronger flywheel/clutch have been fitted.
Good luck with the new car I think it's a great engine in an engaging car and like you I prefer the rear view with the tucked in quad pipes.
Having just returned from 2 weeks touring France Switzerland and Italy in a 911 Turbo I can only think you didn't use yours in the right places. I have a very analogue TVR too, very different to the Porsche obviously but I thoroughly enjoy every minute in both.
Boring really, maybe it's you not the car
??
Having just returned from 2 weeks touring France Switzerland and Italy in a 911 Turbo I can only think you didn't use yours in the right places. I have a very analogue TVR too, very different to the Porsche obviously but I thoroughly enjoy every minute in both.
Boring really, maybe it's you not the car
?? Following this thread with interest.
I’m recently out of a 911 (my 6th) having decided they’re not enough of an event when pootling around in central London. Ridiculous I know!
I’ve been looking at 90s TVRs - Chims and Cerbs on the basis I stomach the ULEZ charge…
Or a Z3 or Z4. Has to be the LCI Z3 as that one is ULEZ compliant so silly to go earlier.
If I go Z3/Z4 - head is saying the 3.0 manual, but heart is obviously saying go M. I need to test both to see if the M car is 3x as good!
I’m recently out of a 911 (my 6th) having decided they’re not enough of an event when pootling around in central London. Ridiculous I know!
I’ve been looking at 90s TVRs - Chims and Cerbs on the basis I stomach the ULEZ charge…
Or a Z3 or Z4. Has to be the LCI Z3 as that one is ULEZ compliant so silly to go earlier.
If I go Z3/Z4 - head is saying the 3.0 manual, but heart is obviously saying go M. I need to test both to see if the M car is 3x as good!
my 2 pence Nick
Firstly, get the TVR if you want an event every journey, and don't listen to the stories about unreliability
they generally come from people who have never owned one. I had 1996 Griff for 13 years, the only time I called the AA was for a dead battery after I left the lights on
Second choice if you don't get TVR and go Z, get the M you'll always be wishing you had everytime you see one.
Here's both great looking cars
:
Firstly, get the TVR if you want an event every journey, and don't listen to the stories about unreliability
they generally come from people who have never owned one. I had 1996 Griff for 13 years, the only time I called the AA was for a dead battery after I left the lights on Second choice if you don't get TVR and go Z, get the M you'll always be wishing you had everytime you see one.
Here's both great looking cars
:Stever said:
my 2 pence Nick
Firstly, get the TVR if you want an event every journey, and don't listen to the stories about unreliabilitythey generally come from people who have never owned one. I had 1996 Griff for 13 years, the only time I called the AA was for a dead battery after I left the lights on
Second choice if you don't get TVR and go Z, get the M you'll always be wishing you had everytime you see one.
Here's both great looking cars:
Wonderful shot - and sound advice! Cheers palFirstly, get the TVR if you want an event every journey, and don't listen to the stories about unreliability
they generally come from people who have never owned one. I had 1996 Griff for 13 years, the only time I called the AA was for a dead battery after I left the lights on Second choice if you don't get TVR and go Z, get the M you'll always be wishing you had everytime you see one.
Here's both great looking cars
:I totally sympathise with the comment about a 911 and lower speed urban/suburban driving. Sports cars can be engaging at low speeds also, just depends on which one.
I love 911s for the right occasion. I was in a 992.1 GT3 Touring manual last year for a couple of weeks and it's one of the best cars ever made. But most 911s, including Turbos, are just too well engineered to have much fun in unless you are really going at it, too competent. That's just my view as a multiple 911 owner, other views are available.
By contrast, on Thursday I got back in the evening from a business trip to Scotland. Had to drop by a friend's party across London. Got into the S54 Z3 M. What a hoot! And I did nothing reckless; its just great fun as a package.
And as a contrast to many current very fast cars, its the flaws that make it fun, I think. Rear suspension from an E30? Yes! A bit too much power? Yes! Not as rigid as a McLaren with its carbon tub? Definitely. You feel more, Enjoy more, keeps you on your toes. Of course not every flawed car is fun, but in this case it's like the M engineers took too much acid one night then just built it.
I did drive Z4 M and 3.0 also. I think they look better outside, but less classic/quirky inside, they have more space, better engineering, more modern, M is faster (the M has more power from the S54) and will definitely hold the road better, but also a big step towards the modern brilliant clinical sports car. Less feel through the steering for example. Horses for courses!
Would definitely buy an M of either over the 3.0. Very different cars.
Loved TVRs when they were new. I knew Peter Wheeler a bit who thought traction control and ABS were for wimps. I didn't quite get on with the steering which is very assisted. Amazing interiors!
More questions for the very kind Z3M pros here..carbon airbox, you also need a ECU remap, right? Can that run idle/low speed running smoothness? The engine is so right! Also, does anyone put spacers on these? And also, very boring but does anyone have an aftermarket metal fuel filler cap? I have them on the F cars and it makes refuelling a satisfying haptic experience...
Thank you and delighted to be part of this club.
I love 911s for the right occasion. I was in a 992.1 GT3 Touring manual last year for a couple of weeks and it's one of the best cars ever made. But most 911s, including Turbos, are just too well engineered to have much fun in unless you are really going at it, too competent. That's just my view as a multiple 911 owner, other views are available.
By contrast, on Thursday I got back in the evening from a business trip to Scotland. Had to drop by a friend's party across London. Got into the S54 Z3 M. What a hoot! And I did nothing reckless; its just great fun as a package.
And as a contrast to many current very fast cars, its the flaws that make it fun, I think. Rear suspension from an E30? Yes! A bit too much power? Yes! Not as rigid as a McLaren with its carbon tub? Definitely. You feel more, Enjoy more, keeps you on your toes. Of course not every flawed car is fun, but in this case it's like the M engineers took too much acid one night then just built it.
I did drive Z4 M and 3.0 also. I think they look better outside, but less classic/quirky inside, they have more space, better engineering, more modern, M is faster (the M has more power from the S54) and will definitely hold the road better, but also a big step towards the modern brilliant clinical sports car. Less feel through the steering for example. Horses for courses!
Would definitely buy an M of either over the 3.0. Very different cars.
Loved TVRs when they were new. I knew Peter Wheeler a bit who thought traction control and ABS were for wimps. I didn't quite get on with the steering which is very assisted. Amazing interiors!
More questions for the very kind Z3M pros here..carbon airbox, you also need a ECU remap, right? Can that run idle/low speed running smoothness? The engine is so right! Also, does anyone put spacers on these? And also, very boring but does anyone have an aftermarket metal fuel filler cap? I have them on the F cars and it makes refuelling a satisfying haptic experience...
Thank you and delighted to be part of this club.
Really interesting. Nearly night one a few years back but didn’t. Can’t remember why! I’ve had endless M Cars, 911s etc and now
I find the sweet spot is a 981 Spyder - incredible sound, always an event and (to me) looks great. Much more engaging than my 911s. I’ve a few other old convertibles but feeling the itch for something new so may reinvestigate an S54 M Roadster. Just hope it is better than my Z4M which I hated!
I find the sweet spot is a 981 Spyder - incredible sound, always an event and (to me) looks great. Much more engaging than my 911s. I’ve a few other old convertibles but feeling the itch for something new so may reinvestigate an S54 M Roadster. Just hope it is better than my Z4M which I hated!
I really enjoyed the Cayman/981 GTS and GT4 I drove. Very alive and agile! Great choices in my view
Good point about the steering wheel. Back in the day the M tech wheel (I think it was called) was small and sexy. Now an M760e (which I’m in atm) has a thicker, smaller, squishier and generally nicer wheel and it’s a mahoosive limo.
I guess it’s progress though, from the huge thin rimmed wheels sports cars had in the 60: through to now. One area where things have actually improved - steering wheels.
Good point about the steering wheel. Back in the day the M tech wheel (I think it was called) was small and sexy. Now an M760e (which I’m in atm) has a thicker, smaller, squishier and generally nicer wheel and it’s a mahoosive limo.
I guess it’s progress though, from the huge thin rimmed wheels sports cars had in the 60: through to now. One area where things have actually improved - steering wheels.
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