High Mileage E46 M3
Discussion
This seems a well written and honest advert. What are your thoughts on this does this represent value over a car with lower mileage but £10k more?
It seems to have some of the key things done, Vanos, rod bearings etc. It says the boot floor has been checked but no reinforcing which concerns me a little.
What are you thoughts?
https://www.pistonheads.com/buy/listing/14887203
It seems to have some of the key things done, Vanos, rod bearings etc. It says the boot floor has been checked but no reinforcing which concerns me a little.
What are you thoughts?
https://www.pistonheads.com/buy/listing/14887203
Looks mechanically well maintained, my concerns would be over the body.
Maybe an independent inspection by an M3 specialist who knows their weak points would guide you?
http://www.redish-motorsport.com/BMWE46M3S54PrePos...
Someone like Redish can offer this service, nearly £700 but may save a lot of financial grief.
Maybe an independent inspection by an M3 specialist who knows their weak points would guide you?
http://www.redish-motorsport.com/BMWE46M3S54PrePos...
Someone like Redish can offer this service, nearly £700 but may save a lot of financial grief.
Mines on 183k with me doing half of that and the one prior owner having done the other half before me.
When I bought it, 12 years ago for £8k, the internet people told me I was insane and that the car would explode at 100k. They were wrong.
I have had the Vanos rebuilt and rod shell bearings done for peace of mind. Turned out the rod shell bearings were absolutely fine when done at 160k. Apart from that it's just been routine maintenance from a mechanical perspective. Diff seals began leaking a couple of years ago, had them changed and has been fine since, MOT testers put it down as a leak but was really a steady weep, nothing to be concerned about.
Bodywork has had new front wings and both rear arches replaced due to rot. The rears were done using standard e46 panels shaped to match, cost about £800 for both sides. Sills are still fine, jacking points all intact and generally not too bad underneath.
RACP fix was carried out as goodwill by Sytner Solihull a few years into my ownership, annual inspections for the next four years showed it held up fine. The work was done initially on the basis of 20mm hairline crack which were found by dropping a load of components for a thorough inspection. If someone has checked without taking half the rear end apart it's not really a check. Use that as a bargaining tool to drive him down a bit more if you go for it. Bear in mind cars around the 100-130k mark are going around £15k with no RACP fix done so the price is reasonable already.
If you get one which has been looked after these cars aren't anywhere near as fragile as people suggest and higher mileage is nothing to worry about. Look on US forums and there are people at half a million miles on them with no major incidents.
When I bought it, 12 years ago for £8k, the internet people told me I was insane and that the car would explode at 100k. They were wrong.
I have had the Vanos rebuilt and rod shell bearings done for peace of mind. Turned out the rod shell bearings were absolutely fine when done at 160k. Apart from that it's just been routine maintenance from a mechanical perspective. Diff seals began leaking a couple of years ago, had them changed and has been fine since, MOT testers put it down as a leak but was really a steady weep, nothing to be concerned about.
Bodywork has had new front wings and both rear arches replaced due to rot. The rears were done using standard e46 panels shaped to match, cost about £800 for both sides. Sills are still fine, jacking points all intact and generally not too bad underneath.
RACP fix was carried out as goodwill by Sytner Solihull a few years into my ownership, annual inspections for the next four years showed it held up fine. The work was done initially on the basis of 20mm hairline crack which were found by dropping a load of components for a thorough inspection. If someone has checked without taking half the rear end apart it's not really a check. Use that as a bargaining tool to drive him down a bit more if you go for it. Bear in mind cars around the 100-130k mark are going around £15k with no RACP fix done so the price is reasonable already.
If you get one which has been looked after these cars aren't anywhere near as fragile as people suggest and higher mileage is nothing to worry about. Look on US forums and there are people at half a million miles on them with no major incidents.
The newest E46 M3s are getting on for 18 years old, and most are 20 or nearly 20.
I wouldn't be worried about mileage as such if it's been well maintained. The big ticket items to note are:
The biggest issue with these is bodywork - the rust can be a killer unfortunatley. If you're buying it at £12k and can tolerate a couple of little imperfections, then that's great.
I'd caution anyone thinking you can get the arches/wings tarted up and all is well. Underneath the sills and other hidden areas really can be rust central. If you are chasing bodywork perfection then you can easily spend many, many thousands. ETA: the above isn't a dig at Herr Schnell - merely my opinion from what I see on the various forums etc.
I personally wouldn't spend £700 on a pre-purchase inspection and frankly as a seller of a £12k, 20 year old M3, I wouldn't entertain it either even if it was at the buyers cost. For a £75k CSL, yes, but it's at the absolute bottom of the market and appears a useable example.
The only thing that I'd hesitate with this car, is no mention of the RACP being done. This can be a problem, and one that isn't (totally) blown out of proportion by forum doom-mongers....
Btw - there are people who still insist on making sure the running in service has been done. I don't think it really matters 20 years after the fact
Overall - for the money, it looks like a decent buy IMO. The costs of tyres and fuel are no cheaper than the newer cars, so if you're prepared for 15-18mpg round town and £1k on a set of MP4S, then go for it.
But you could get into an E92 for similar running costs and purchase price, I reckon, these days (not that I would, as I prefer an on E46....)
I wouldn't be worried about mileage as such if it's been well maintained. The big ticket items to note are:
- RACP
- VANOS
- Rod bearings
- Head-gasket can go - although I don't think it's as common as people make out
The biggest issue with these is bodywork - the rust can be a killer unfortunatley. If you're buying it at £12k and can tolerate a couple of little imperfections, then that's great.
I'd caution anyone thinking you can get the arches/wings tarted up and all is well. Underneath the sills and other hidden areas really can be rust central. If you are chasing bodywork perfection then you can easily spend many, many thousands. ETA: the above isn't a dig at Herr Schnell - merely my opinion from what I see on the various forums etc.
I personally wouldn't spend £700 on a pre-purchase inspection and frankly as a seller of a £12k, 20 year old M3, I wouldn't entertain it either even if it was at the buyers cost. For a £75k CSL, yes, but it's at the absolute bottom of the market and appears a useable example.
The only thing that I'd hesitate with this car, is no mention of the RACP being done. This can be a problem, and one that isn't (totally) blown out of proportion by forum doom-mongers....
Btw - there are people who still insist on making sure the running in service has been done. I don't think it really matters 20 years after the fact
Overall - for the money, it looks like a decent buy IMO. The costs of tyres and fuel are no cheaper than the newer cars, so if you're prepared for 15-18mpg round town and £1k on a set of MP4S, then go for it.
But you could get into an E92 for similar running costs and purchase price, I reckon, these days (not that I would, as I prefer an on E46....)
Edited by carbonblack on Monday 17th April 11:02
Edited by carbonblack on Monday 17th April 11:03
carbonblack said:
I'd caution anyone thinking you can get the arches/wings tarted up and all is well. Underneath the sills and other hidden areas really can be rust central. If you are chasing bodywork perfection then you can easily spend many, many thousands. ETA: the above isn't a dig at Herr Schnell - merely my opinion from what I see on the various forums etc.
No I totally agree with you, there are some shockers out there. I think my point was that the damage is age not mileage related.I was fully expecting to have additional work done when it went in for the rear arches but on inspection it was fine. Was quite relieved to see it stripped back and looking a lot better than some of the forum posts I'd seen. The guy who did them has done a fair few e46s and said some are OK, some are really not.
Mine lived the first 7 years of it's life wintering in Southern Spain as the previous owner was a very wealthy gent who liked to spend the damp months in more temperate climates. That may well have helped.
Herr Schnell said:
No I totally agree with you, there are some shockers out there. I think my point was that the damage is age not mileage related.
I was fully expecting to have additional work done when it went in for the rear arches but on inspection it was fine. Was quite relieved to see it stripped back and looking a lot better than some of the forum posts I'd seen. The guy who did them has done a fair few e46s and said some are OK, some are really not.
Mine lived the first 7 years of it's life wintering in Southern Spain as the previous owner was a very wealthy gent who liked to spend the damp months in more temperate climates. That may well have helped.
There are some shockers out there - my 150k+ mile example is showing quite a bit of corrosion underneath, I've come to realise that it's never going to be worth enough to spend several thousand making it significantly better. It's very much a case of keeping it presentable but alas it's a costly battle in terms of cosmetics.I was fully expecting to have additional work done when it went in for the rear arches but on inspection it was fine. Was quite relieved to see it stripped back and looking a lot better than some of the forum posts I'd seen. The guy who did them has done a fair few e46s and said some are OK, some are really not.
Mine lived the first 7 years of it's life wintering in Southern Spain as the previous owner was a very wealthy gent who liked to spend the damp months in more temperate climates. That may well have helped.
Mechanically, it's great - but by god do these BMWs like to corrode.... I reckon picking one up that was in Southern Spain for half the year was a very good move indeed
From one leggy M3 owner to another
I've had my 2003 M3 almost 4 years, was on 119k miles when I bought it, now on 134k.
Had 3 of the big jobs done,; be bearings, vanos and boot floor all done by Darragh at Everything M3. Had the diff refurbed aswell.
Was lucky with mine, the boot floor and inner arches were in reasonable condtion when it was stripped down, seen others that are much worse. Will do the head gasket, if and when it fails.
Bodywork isn't too bad, drivers wing is bubbling but have a good second hand part of the right colour to fit.
It's only a weekend toy with the occasional commute so the average 26mpg isn't too crippling, have had 32mpg on a 500 mile trip.
Unless you know where to look, boot floor problems aren't easy to see, mine was cracked very lightly and only once the subframe, underseal and dirt were removed.
Had 3 of the big jobs done,; be bearings, vanos and boot floor all done by Darragh at Everything M3. Had the diff refurbed aswell.
Was lucky with mine, the boot floor and inner arches were in reasonable condtion when it was stripped down, seen others that are much worse. Will do the head gasket, if and when it fails.
Bodywork isn't too bad, drivers wing is bubbling but have a good second hand part of the right colour to fit.
It's only a weekend toy with the occasional commute so the average 26mpg isn't too crippling, have had 32mpg on a 500 mile trip.
Unless you know where to look, boot floor problems aren't easy to see, mine was cracked very lightly and only once the subframe, underseal and dirt were removed.
It’s not a particularly high average mileage for its age, but a 185k M3 can be an expensive endeavour as they will need bushes, suspension, quite possibly rod bearings and a VANOS overhaul.
MOT history won’t give you an idea for most of the above, but it could be a reasonable indicator of how well the car is looked after (or not as the case may be!)
MOT history won’t give you an idea for most of the above, but it could be a reasonable indicator of how well the car is looked after (or not as the case may be!)
carbonblack said:
It’s not a particularly high average mileage for its age, but a 185k M3 can be an expensive endeavour as they will need bushes, suspension, quite possibly rod bearings and a VANOS overhaul.
MOT history won’t give you an idea for most of the above, but it could be a reasonable indicator of how well the car is looked after (or not as the case may be!)
A good chance a 185k mile M3 is coming up for its second suspension refresh.MOT history won’t give you an idea for most of the above, but it could be a reasonable indicator of how well the car is looked after (or not as the case may be!)
With 80k ‘low milers’ coming up for their first.
They’re all old now, so the age impact is literally immeasurable.
Sat in the sun, the wintery shade, garaged, cared for, neglected, who knows?
Mileage is a metric now that probably means nothing either. A metric for value for examples that don’t get used any more, merely traded as assets.
I’d just buy on condition over everything now.
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