BMW Approved Used selling a modified M car?

[Recalcitrant]

Evening all,

I went to see an M2 Comp today, 18 months old, drove it, great condition - all fine. I decide to buy it. This is a BMW Approved Used car at a large main dealer.

The salesman then mentions it has expensive upgraded suspension (to the tune of £3.5k).

Now, warranty is critically important to me, and this set alarm bells ringing. It's still under the manufacturer warranty from new due to the age, and I would plan on extending that afterwards.

Does this not mean anything related to suspension/steering/differential, BMW UK Warranty can try and argue it's down to non-factory spec suspension?

The salesman said it's an "approved" manufacturer and all fine, but I don't trust that. He didn't even say what brand it is. They are yellow so I am assuming Ohlins.

There could be insurance modification implications here too? BMW are obviously not going to warranty anything from a third party manufacturer (nor would I expect them to).

I will find out more tomorrow but I am quite concerned.

Any thoughts welcome.

[bobthemonkey]

I saw a similar situation with another M2 when I was looking to buy - about 2 years ago. Turns out it was the official M Performance aftermarket kit - which is made by KW. As it was ‘official’ BMW parts, the warranty was allegedly intact. From memory, it was at a Sytner dealership in South Wales.

Didn’t end up buying it however, and the situation - much like you - wasn’t particularly reassuring.

Edited by bobthemonkey on Monday 21st March 00:25

[nickfrog]

I don't know about the original warranty but if you extend with the BMW / Allianz insured product in 18 months time they will invalidate the policy for any alterations whether related to the claim or not. This has recently been successfully challenged by a PHers through the FOS but that was for an immobiliser. I wouldn't want to go through this, particularly for suspension as that would invalidate engine claims due to increased lateral load and oil starvation. Unless it is the BMW branded KW kit of course.

I wish dealers stopped doing this though.

I would look at another car in the meantime.

[Recalcitrant]

Just to update this, I spoke to BMW UK (regarding the manufacturer warranty), and also the Allianz BMW Warranty department for extended warranties.

Both said it's a minefield and BMW AUC cars should be standard, and they would avoid.

Told the dealer who was having none of it and said it would be fine... no thanks.

[Pupp]

Factor the risk into the price and make an offer to reflect that, explaining why. Maybe a bargain to be had if a decent upgrade

[Trevor555]

Recalcitrant said:

Just to update this, I spoke to BMW UK (regarding the manufacturer warranty), and also the Allianz BMW Warranty department for extended warranties.

Both said it's a minefield and BMW AUC cars should be standard, and they would avoid.

Told the dealer who was having none of it and said it would be fine... no thanks.

Thanks for letting us know.

My trust for that brand was totally lost in 2020

What you write confirms that the dealers think they can just do/say what they like.

[Max Maxasson]

I bought a one year old ex-Palmersport (important history that they failed to communicate) E92 M3 from Sytner still under factory warranty.
Once I found out the history I insisted that BMW UK send me a letter confirming that the car would be covered by manufacturers and Ext warranties without problem which they did.
It was a fabulous car and I had zero problems with it.
If BMW UK aren't prepared to do the same then I would question how the car can be sold under the AUC program.

[texaxile]

Recalcitrant said:

Just to update this, I spoke to BMW UK (regarding the manufacturer warranty), and also the Allianz BMW Warranty department for extended warranties.

Both said it's a minefield and BMW AUC cars should be standard, and they would avoid.

Told the dealer who was having none of it and said it would be fine... no thanks.

Great info and thanks for updating, it's handy to know, especially for those like myself who are considering buying an AUC in the future but as yet have had no dealings with BMW.

Caveat seems to be "Don't trust a word the salesman says..."

[CarCrazyDad]

Don't trust the salesman however -

If you have very high quality suspension then this would be a bonus?

Plus the warranty is going to cover major ticket items (engine, gearbox, infotainment?)

It would just be suspension excluded ?

Did you check what kind of suspension it was?
Was it the M Performance kit? Or an aftermarket setup by the likes of Intrax?
If it was an M Performance kit then that would be fully covered by the warranty

Either way, sounds like it would be a good purchase (assuming the engine is standard of course) - your typical owner isn't going to spend £3500 on suspension and then skimp elsewhere (although this isn't always the case)

If you didn't like the suspension then surely it would be reasonably affordable to purchase used "original" suspension and re-sell this £3.5K of suspension and this would alleviate your concerns RE the warranty ?

[nickfrog]

CarCrazyDad said:

Don't trust the salesman however -

Plus the warranty is going to cover major ticket items (engine, gearbox, infotainment?)

It would just be suspension excluded ?

I doubt it, the suspension is bound to increase lateral load and therefore affect lubrication to both engine and box. I also bet it's on different top mounts and runs more camber than stock. I doubt a warranty claim would be valid both now or extended,

But then again the OP might not be bothered about long term warranty and the original one may still be valid for 18 months particularly if the supplying dealer assesses the claim...

I certainly wouldn't want to get into a FOS situation.

[geeks]

How can it be approved used if it is modified?

Also as an aside, anyone else noticing an increase in these types of threads?

[Recalcitrant]

CarCrazyDad said:

Don't trust the salesman however -

If you have very high quality suspension then this would be a bonus?

Plus the warranty is going to cover major ticket items (engine, gearbox, infotainment?)

It would just be suspension excluded ?

Did you check what kind of suspension it was?
Was it the M Performance kit? Or an aftermarket setup by the likes of Intrax?
If it was an M Performance kit then that would be fully covered by the warranty

Either way, sounds like it would be a good purchase (assuming the engine is standard of course) - your typical owner isn't going to spend £3500 on suspension and then skimp elsewhere (although this isn't always the case)

If you didn't like the suspension then surely it would be reasonably affordable to purchase used "original" suspension and re-sell this £3.5K of suspension and this would alleviate your concerns RE the warranty ?

It was the KW coilover kit, which is of course good quality, but not OEM. It wasn't fitted by BMW, nor are they BMW approved parts. The M performance ones are red I believe, these were the yellow ones.

So the warranty wouldn't cover the shocks, springs and anything remotely linked to the modification would be at the discretion of BMW UK/Allianz if on the extended warranty. So that could be top mounts, steering rack, all sorts. As someone mentioned, it could cause engine issues as a result of lateral load etc. Unlikely but a top legal team could quite easily make that case.

Does this also potentially mean the car has been thrashed around a track regularly too? Maybe, maybe not.

I do not want to be trying to face down BMW UK via the FOS, what a major hassle that would be when I just want an unmodified car, which this was meant to be. It's pathetic really and in my view the dealer are completely misrepresenting it by having it advertised as approved used. BMW UK said as much.

[nickfrog]

geeks said:

How can it be approved used if it is modified?

Also as an aside, anyone else noticing an increase in these types of threads?

Yes. The AUC standards are being ignored by some dealers - larger groups in particular, and one especially it seems...S****r.

This may be due to how tight supply is, but that's no excuse. It's a fraudulent misrepresentation.

But obviously that doesn't mean that every AUC car is mis sold, I reckon they are by and large compliant, but due diligence should be the same irrespective of source basically.

[Recalcitrant]

nickfrog said:

Yes. The AUC standards are being ignored by some dealers - larger groups in particular, and one especially it seems...S****r.

This may be due to how tight supply is, but that's no excuse. It's a fraudulent misrepresentation.

But obviously that doesn't mean that every AUC car is mis sold, I reckon they are by and large compliant, but due diligence should be the same irrespective of source basically.

I've actually just spoken to BMW UK customer service to highlight the car to them - they didn't seem interested. They said it's at the discretion of the BMW centre and their 'expert technicians' would have signed it off and it would be safe.

I told them I'm not saying it isn't safe. I'm saying there are clear warranty and insurance implications around having a totally aftermarket suspension system.

Not very reassuring.

[nickfrog]

Recalcitrant said:

I've actually just spoken to BMW UK customer service to highlight the car to them - they didn't seem interested. They said it's at the discretion of the BMW centre and their 'expert technicians' would have signed it off and it would be safe.

I told them I'm not saying it isn't safe. I'm saying there are clear warranty and insurance implications around having a totally aftermarket suspension system.

Not very reassuring.

CS don't have the first clue. You did the right thing but how many people just trust the round logo on the building and assume AUC is indeed AUC?

[Trevor555]

Recalcitrant said:

I've actually just spoken to BMW UK customer service to highlight the car to them - they didn't seem interested. They said it's at the discretion of the BMW centre and their 'expert technicians' would have signed it off and it would be safe.

Not very reassuring.

I'll tell you about my experience.

One of their "Expert technicians" attempted a repair but failed to rectify my complaint.

They said they'll speak to Bmw technical.

Then said "it performs as expected" and was not interested in any further investigation despite saying to me "it does it worse one way than the other"

Customer services were useless and just kept saying "Our Technician has stated no fault"

Then went into ignore mode for 7 months, even saying they didn't receive my recorded delivery letter.

Eventually Bmw assist were helpful, I'm guessing an ex technician on the phone. He said it didn't sound right and said he'll collect it and send it to a different dealer. I'd been asking Bmw for this for months and got nowhere, they weren't interested.

THANK YOU Bmw assist for listening to a customer..

That dealer immediately identified a broken shock absorber.

So much for their first "Expert technician"... I guess he was told by technical to say what he did.

Why am I telling you all this?

Because you need to know how Bmw can behave when there's a problem that they can't fix on their first attempt, and also how customer service were no help at all.

Worst experience in my 34 years of motoring/biking..

All their blurb about "Used approved" means nothing to them.

[nickfrog]

^^^ sounds like an awful experience Trevor and I don't blame you for being pissed off.

Fortunately it's not always that way. In fact I still haven't managed to fault my BMW dealer in more than 10 years.

[CarCrazyDad]

nickfrog said:

CarCrazyDad said:

Don't trust the salesman however -

Plus the warranty is going to cover major ticket items (engine, gearbox, infotainment?)

It would just be suspension excluded ?

I doubt it, the suspension is bound to increase lateral load and therefore affect lubrication to both engine and box. I also bet it's on different top mounts and runs more camber than stock. I doubt a warranty claim would be valid both now or extended,

But then again the OP might not be bothered about long term warranty and the original one may still be valid for 18 months particularly if the supplying dealer assesses the claim...

I certainly wouldn't want to get into a FOS situation.

Lateral grip is restricted by tyres.
Not suspension.

I guess your warranty is void if you fit Cup2s then

As I've told you before my Son has had zero issues with his modified car under Insured warranty.

He was even told if its an unaffected part they will not contest.
Granted different dealers can play funny buggers.

Its a risk I suppose.

[Trevor555]

nickfrog said:

^^^ sounds like an awful experience Trevor and I don't blame you for being pissed off.

Fortunately it's not always that way. In fact I still haven't managed to fault my BMW dealer in more than 10 years.

That's good to hear, I hadn't encountered any problems either until this one.

[CarCrazyDad]

Recalcitrant said:

CarCrazyDad said:

Don't trust the salesman however -

If you have very high quality suspension then this would be a bonus?

Plus the warranty is going to cover major ticket items (engine, gearbox, infotainment?)

It would just be suspension excluded ?

Did you check what kind of suspension it was?
Was it the M Performance kit? Or an aftermarket setup by the likes of Intrax?
If it was an M Performance kit then that would be fully covered by the warranty

Either way, sounds like it would be a good purchase (assuming the engine is standard of course) - your typical owner isn't going to spend £3500 on suspension and then skimp elsewhere (although this isn't always the case)

If you didn't like the suspension then surely it would be reasonably affordable to purchase used "original" suspension and re-sell this £3.5K of suspension and this would alleviate your concerns RE the warranty ?

It was the KW coilover kit, which is of course good quality, but not OEM. It wasn't fitted by BMW, nor are they BMW approved parts. The M performance ones are red I believe, these were the yellow ones.

So the warranty wouldn't cover the shocks, springs and anything remotely linked to the modification would be at the discretion of BMW UK/Allianz if on the extended warranty. So that could be top mounts, steering rack, all sorts. As someone mentioned, it could cause engine issues as a result of lateral load etc. Unlikely but a top legal team could quite easily make that case.

Does this also potentially mean the car has been thrashed around a track regularly too? Maybe, maybe not.

I do not want to be trying to face down BMW UK via the FOS, what a major hassle that would be when I just want an unmodified car, which this was meant to be. It's pathetic really and in my view the dealer are completely misrepresenting it by having it advertised as approved used. BMW UK said as much.

I mean it's an M2 - so its designed as a track and performance car.

If you like the car I'd just buy it, sell the suspension, fit standard and enjoy, then you have zero worries about the suspension being a sticking point and you'll also get back £2000 selling the KW parts.

The argument about lateral grip is stupid and would never be made. Because it's false. You an only grip as well as your tyres..



Or take the risk if you like the suspension.


Or find another car. (I suspect there are plentiful out there to choose from)

I've just only recently gone through a BMW AUC rejection with / on behalf of a friend so I can fully understand your hesitation wrt warranty issues.


Best of luck in whatever you do and enjoy the car you eventually purchase!