E39 M5 - values/time to sell

[Spinner20]

I have had my 2002 carbon black E39 M5 for over a decade now, it’s concours and sub 80k miles with a rare spec (m-audio, extended leather etc etc)

I hadn’t intended to sell but values seem so strong it represents an opportunity to try something else. I already have many other cars.

The values of everything else also seem strong so it looks like mine could be £40-50k looking at comparable examples.

Do we think they are still going north from here?
What other modern classic might be a worthy replacement?

My last nearly new car was an R8 V8 coupe back when they came out which was excellent and tempting to do again for similar money but feel I have been there with it. I bought it because a 996 GT2 for less money (£55k at the time) didn’t have a warranty. Mistake!

I find myself leaning toward a 599 GTB as I think they look good value but I suspect I would regret leaving the M fold and certainly would if E39 M5’s end up at 80k+ in 5 years+

[DennisCooper]

Hi,

In the UK - then for your example and perhaps wanting it to 'sell' for £40/50K I'd want it sub 30K miles, masses of invoices and receipts for anything the car has ever needed, invoices for overhauls/preventative work of the now well known big ticket costs for this car, be in total OEM spec with the right colour combination and options.

There's plenty of £20-35K asking price examples that come up, which upon closer inspection have flaws, rust bubbles, shade different panels, 100K miles and significantly higher too. They all seem to hang about unsold, then disappear leading me to conclude either the owner has had a big cup of reality check and decided to keep the car, or had a big cup of reality check and actually 'sold' the car for significantly less than the asking price.

The only way I see fast variants of mass produced cars ( M, AMG, RS, etc) is if Synthetic fuels availability becomes widespread in the UK. If not, I strongly suspect actual selling prices for 'most' UK E39 M5's will reduce as the mandatory costs for running a fossil fueled car rises over the next 5/10/15+ years.

Mine is a unpopular view for sure, and many owners of M5's and plenty other interesting M cars, and other marque cars remain 'auto convinced' their cars will rise in value over the coming years. They may well turn out to be right and I'm totally in the wrong!

Be interesting to see the Pistonheads members responses on this

Cheers, Dennis!

[Spinner20]

Thanks Denis. Sale price and asking different hence asking.

Be good to have a registry of sold like houses!

I think you are trying to predict future gov policy partly in your view which is tricky as we know about stuff like sale ban (which may get changed again) but I foresee plenty of runway for ownership and people seeking out nice example of ICE ‘heritage’. I own both EV and ICE now for example.

My M5 has had a full refresh (suspension, driveline etc) and the parts are now £££ so I know good ones are worth money. I guess bottom line is I would keep it for £30k as it’s too good and too good an experience to not for that but £40k+ make the maths work to try something else (that is equally punchy to buy in the current climate)

[AlasdairB10]

If it helps, I work for a bank that has a specialist car finance team and the lead chap is all over the high end market. I've been thinking of selling and I asked him to value mine a few months ago. My car sounds v similar in spec (I've also got Alcantara headlining and rear blind) - 95k miles - fbmwsh.

He told me to market mine for £36995. His view was that it would easily hold its value. Personal view is that investment mileage cars could increase further but hard to see the next step down going materially higher when you look at other M cars.

Edited by AlasdairB10 on Monday 31st January 15:47

[akirk]

I will quote a post I made back in November last year (c.f. below)
As you will see from the analysis there, there is a strong correlation between mileage and value.
I have just sold mine at 120,000 miles - and the price I was paid would have fitted in that pattern...

OP you don't say precise mileage - but you mention sub 80k, so presume it is close to that but below - from those charts:
a) there are not a lot of cars around at that lower mileage
b) the chart would suggest a price around the mid 30s maybe £35k

You say concours - but what do you mean by that? At the age of these cars (mine was a 2003 car) they are 19+ years old and rust can hit in various ways - boot lock / wheel arches / jacking points / surface corrosion underneath / etc. It would be unusual to have no corrosion on an 80k car even if just the first signs...

My buyer had the car inspected by Redish Motorsport before purchasing - they were very thorough and liked the car (average to good condition for its mileage / age) - but it still had two pages of comments on things that could be done to improve further (they are very detailed!) even though nothing needed doing in the immediate or near future. Ultimately they are still ageing cars...

The issue you may have is that most cars which are in concours condition - generally that comes from having kept it dry stored / used it as one of many cars / etc.which means that they often have sub 40k mileage - those looking for concours are probably not looking for 80k mileage and those looking at 80k mileage aren't expecting to pay a premium for perfection - they want a car that can be driven... so there is possibly a mismatch between those two things for your car - it also probably explains why there is a very strong correlation between price and mileage - mileage has become a shorthand for the expected condition (and therefore price) of the car.

an interesting read comes from:
https://collectingcars.com/?query=e39%20m5&pag...

I didn't bother adding in this detail - the charts below are autotrader / ebay / PH and for sale prices - as I wanted an understanding of where to pitch the sale price for my car... but the above link shows actual sold prices... If you filter to UK only - then the standout price (PHers car I think) sold for £38,500 - however it had only 46k on the clock - plenty to think about...

akirk said:

They are fantastic cars...



I have had mine for over 4 years now and the only thing that has gone wrong on it was a slightly loose boot lock earth wire - fixed for a few pounds... It has been the cheapest car I have owned (maybe other than tyre and petrol costs!) and is always a delight to drive - for those who think it is only about motorway journeys, you have got it totally wrong - a fast flowing B road is this car's spiritual home - get it balanced and it flows like silk - get it out of balance however and it can go very wrong... Sadly now going up for sale as Bristol won't allow it in the centre from next year

I did a look at prices back in August across ebay / autotrader / pistonheads - and have just completed the same exercise today exactly 3 months later... some interesting stats:

Aug - 14 cars on sale / Nov 19 cars on sale
7 cars are still on sale from Aug / 7 presumably sold / 12 new cars on sale
Av. price in Aug £32.800 / Av. price now £27,080 (some high milers have been added which have brought the average down)
Av. mileage in Aug 108,000 / now 124,500
The car 'spotted' in the article above was on sale then and now - increased by £90 in 3 months
Others which have stayed on sale have varied:
- one was a private sale now a trade sale (traded in?) and increased by c. £8k
- one in the trade dropped by £4k
- one hugely overpriced private sale has dropped by c. £17k (now perhaps closer to the right price!)
- private sale up by £1.5k and a trade sale up by c. £1k
The 18,000 mile car up at £57,500 in August is no longer up for sale - so presumed sold...

When I looked in August, there was little correlation between car age and price - but a clear link between mileage and price (other than a couple of silly over-priced ones - one of which has been corrected - the other is no longer for sale / sold) here are the charts for Aug / Nov 2021:

[Spinner20]

akirk said:

Interesting analysis, thanks for sharing. From that seems mid 30’s is a reasonable starting point. I guess you can’t tell condition from the price data per se. It’s a 4th car that does not get driven much. Have had what could something in between a full refresh and restoration carried out. Bit of an idea below.

[akirk]

Spinner20 said:

Interesting analysis, thanks for sharing. From that seems mid 30’s is a reasonable starting point. I guess you can’t tell condition from the price data per se. It’s a 4th car that does not get driven much. Have had what could something in between a full refresh and restoration carried out. Bit of an idea below.

I would tend to agree - though the 'higher' mileage v. condition of the car may mean that you would need to market it carefully - possibly through a specialist dealer - I suspect that just adding it to autotrader etc. might not make the most of its condition - possibly selling on collecting cars or similar might work...

looks fab

[Spinner20]

akirk said:

I would tend to agree - though the 'higher' mileage v. condition of the car may mean that you would need to market it carefully - possibly through a specialist dealer - I suspect that just adding it to autotrader etc. might not make the most of its condition - possibly selling on collecting cars or similar might work...

looks fab

Sounds advice, thank you! and to all other contributors also

[VeeTenM]

Munich Legends are probably the ones to go to or Collecting car auction

[NIgt3]

There’s 2 coming up for sale on collecting cars soon, it’s in their “coming soon section” one of them has high miles the other looks mint and has less than 60k miles on it, this could give an example as to what yours is worth. To be far too collecting cars they reach a large buyers pool and as such give a good example as to what people are prepared to pay for certain cars which inturn really means what their worth!

[ukwill]

I preferred my E39 to my F10 competition. Sure, it wasn't in the same ballpark in any speed-related test, but it didn't feel too big for the road, nor did it feel like it was only a matter of time time before it killed me. I wish I had kept it.

[LankyMcTally]

If using those as an assessment of potential value, take note that the first has a visible rust problem and the second, although low miles, is (subtly) modified.

[rfsteel]

Anyone had any recent insurance renewal quotes for their M5's ? What prices should I be looking at for an agreed value, for 2001 with 137k and in general perfect condition ?






Coming up to my 12th year of ownership having purchased with 100k, my insurance renewal is due at the beginning of March so will be interesting to see what impact the market prices have on renewal.

[PowerslideSWE]

I'm in the same boat myself with mine. Even at 128000 miles I'm still being approached by Germans on various FB pages wanting to buy mine at what they call reasonable prices since even high milage pre-facelifts are getting very expensive on their home market, been offered €25k from several people on pictures alone.

Mine is no minter, nor is it a wreck, boring/classy color combination, silver over black, it has a 4 inch folder of stuff done to it, good history, mostly original paint, dual panes, DSP, Electric blind and a few other things, and apart from OEM facelift headlights and a black wrapped lower diffuser panel it is 100% original and it IS rust free, imported from Bavaria from the original owner and never driven during the winter in Sweden, usually garaged around early october, facts that are easily checked over the internet.

But then the question looms, what to get instead?

Edited by PowerslideSWE on Wednesday 2nd February 18:10

Edited by PowerslideSWE on Wednesday 2nd February 18:10

Edited by PowerslideSWE on Wednesday 2nd February 18:12

Edited by PowerslideSWE on Wednesday 2nd February 18:13

Edited by PowerslideSWE on Tuesday 1st March 15:56

[Spinner20]

LankyMcTally said:

If using those as an assessment of potential value, take note that the first has a visible rust problem and the second, although low miles, is (subtly) modified.

You hit the nail on the head. Danger in comparing a car with rust and other issues no doubt to another example which doesn’t. These cars are very expensive to put right now with part prices if they need a lot of attention.

A de-rust and full respray restoration is 10-15k for a quality
job if you need. The sill covers are over £200 each and you need 4. I replaced the subs in the m-audio on mine with original parts a few years ago and I was told I got the last couple in Germany at the time…..I won’t say how much they were but extortion would be a fair word!

[Spinner20]

[quote=PowerslideSWE]

But then the question looms, what to get instead?

Indeed! Great cars and I think if I get out it’s likely
I won’t get back into a classic m power vehicle again as CSL’s have gone nuts and other models probably don’t do it for me and would need plenty of work to get to a standard I would be happy with. I could possibly be tempted with an M2 manual but I opted to order an Alpina last year so waiting for that to arrive in Nov this year.

[NIgt3]

Spinner20 said:

LankyMcTally said:

If using those as an assessment of potential value, take note that the first has a visible rust problem and the second, although low miles, is (subtly) modified.

You hit the nail on the head. Danger in comparing a car with rust and other issues no doubt to another example which doesn’t. These cars are very expensive to put right now with part prices if they need a lot of attention.

A de-rust and full respray restoration is 10-15k for a quality
job if you need. The sill covers are over £200 each and you need 4. I replaced the subs in the m-audio on mine with original parts a few years ago and I was told I got the last couple in Germany at the time…..I won’t say how much they were but extortion would be a fair word!

Sorry I think my post was misunderstood, I wasn’t meaning for you to compare a 150k miles car with rust to your car, more so the other car with 60K miles and looks in good condition, the higher mileage car I just mentioned because collecting cars will have 2 for sale soon, that example might be useful to someone else.

[Spinner20]

NIgt3 said:

Spinner20 said:

LankyMcTally said:

If using those as an assessment of potential value, take note that the first has a visible rust problem and the second, although low miles, is (subtly) modified.

You hit the nail on the head. Danger in comparing a car with rust and other issues no doubt to another example which doesn’t. These cars are very expensive to put right now with part prices if they need a lot of attention.

A de-rust and full respray restoration is 10-15k for a quality
job if you need. The sill covers are over £200 each and you need 4. I replaced the subs in the m-audio on mine with original parts a few years ago and I was told I got the last couple in Germany at the time…..I won’t say how much they were but extortion would be a fair word!

Sorry I think my post was misunderstood, I wasn’t meaning for you to compare a 150k miles car with rust to your car, more so the other car with 60K miles and looks in good condition, the higher mileage car I just mentioned because collecting cars will have 2 for sale soon, that example might be useful to someone else.

Thanks. didn't misunderstand. a wider point about condition being a relevant factor when comparing cars which is sometimes hard to do when just browsing the classifieds.

[NIgt3]

Spinner20 said:

NIgt3 said:

Spinner20 said:

LankyMcTally said:

If using those as an assessment of potential value, take note that the first has a visible rust problem and the second, although low miles, is (subtly) modified.

You hit the nail on the head. Danger in comparing a car with rust and other issues no doubt to another example which doesn’t. These cars are very expensive to put right now with part prices if they need a lot of attention.

A de-rust and full respray restoration is 10-15k for a quality
job if you need. The sill covers are over £200 each and you need 4. I replaced the subs in the m-audio on mine with original parts a few years ago and I was told I got the last couple in Germany at the time…..I won’t say how much they were but extortion would be a fair word!

Sorry I think my post was misunderstood, I wasn’t meaning for you to compare a 150k miles car with rust to your car, more so the other car with 60K miles and looks in good condition, the higher mileage car I just mentioned because collecting cars will have 2 for sale soon, that example might be useful to someone else.

Thanks. didn't misunderstand. a wider point about condition being a relevant factor when comparing cars which is sometimes hard to do when just browsing the classifieds.

The car on collect cars made £37800 inc fees, gives a little insight into what yours might be worth, but then as you say, and obviously, condition plays a big part and this car might not be in as good condition as yours even though it’s less miles, or maybe it might be in better condition it’s hard to tell while just browsing the classifieds or going by the sellers view on things!!

[yzrh]

Spinner20 said:

Interesting analysis, thanks for sharing. From that seems mid 30’s is a reasonable starting point. I guess you can’t tell condition from the price data per se. It’s a 4th car that does not get driven much. Have had what could something in between a full refresh and restoration carried out. Bit of an idea below.

Out of interest, where did you get the refresh/restoration done?