M2 CS warranty & trackdays

[Green George]

Just watched Henry Catchpoles', excellent Carfection 'You Tube' review. Part of the review was on track which of course is a M cars natural habitat. But wouldn't this negate the BMW warranty if it was to be used on track? I know it would on a used car but not sure about a new one.

I ask because when I recently renewed my BMW warranty on my e92 M3 the renewal form required me to sign acknowledging amongst other things that the cover excludes trackdays and or any timed event.
I would love to use my M3 on a trackday but do not want to null & void my (expensive) warranty. Am I missing something?

Edited by Green George on Saturday 30th January 23:59

[320d is all you need]

Yes but in reality, how will they tell?

You're at a track day - the car breaks - you have it towed a few miles away and ring up, oh no, my car has broken. come and get it.

Take the registration plate off on track, cover your VIN if you're concerned.

[Green George]

I would have thought the ECU(s) would capture relevant data from the engine / gearbox for example throttle opening, the amount of time the engine spends at high rpm and which gear was being used and quite possibly harvest GPS data.
It is well documented that in recent years BMW have taken a very dim view of their cars (including M) being used on track.

[helix402]

Green George said:

I would have thought the ECU(s) would capture relevant data from the engine / gearbox for example throttle opening, the amount of time the engine spends at high rpm and which gear was being used and quite possibly harvest GPS data.
It is well documented that in recent years BMW have taken a very dim view of their cars (including M) being used on track.

Main dealers do not access GPS data before approving warranty claims.

[Terminator X]

Afaik trackdays are ok just not "racing" e.g. timed events.

TX.

[Green George]

Insured Warranty handbook (02/20) - Terms & Conditions (pg 20)

6. This warranty will not cover the following.
• An insured vehicle used for courier or private hire services, track days, off road use, competitions or racing of any kind.

[FazerBoy]

320d is all you need said:

Yes but in reality, how will they tell?

You're at a track day - the car breaks - you have it towed a few miles away and ring up, oh no, my car has broken. come and get it.

Take the registration plate off on track, cover your VIN if you're concerned.

You could of course do this.

If you’re prepared to risk a criminal conviction for fraud...

[320d is all you need]

FazerBoy said:

320d is all you need said:

Yes but in reality, how will they tell?

You're at a track day - the car breaks - you have it towed a few miles away and ring up, oh no, my car has broken. come and get it.

Take the registration plate off on track, cover your VIN if you're concerned.

You could of course do this.

If you’re prepared to risk a criminal conviction for fraud...

Don't be ridiculous.


I know someone who blew their engine (BMW M2) at Nurburgring on a trackday. It was recovered by Bongard / Lenz direct to the local BMW Dealer in Adenau. BMW Germany gave him a courtesy car to drive to UK in.
Car recovered to UK.
Replaced.
When asked he just said he was "in Germany on Holiday".

Manufacturers should not hand the journalists keys to the car to skid around the track and say "what a track weapon" or other similar journalistic nonsense which makes someone buy the car, and then refuse a warranty claim when you use the car in a manner in which it's "designed".

If you're on track you should remove your number plate anyway.

Data from ECU is kept yes but there's nothing to say "this car is on the track, invalidate warranty".

[Green George]

320d is all you need said:

Manufacturers should not hand the journalists keys to the car to skid around the track and say "what a track weapon" or other similar journalistic nonsense which makes someone buy the car, and then refuse a warranty claim when you use the car in a manner in which it's "designed".

100% agreed.

320d is all you need said:

Data from ECU is kept yes but there's nothing to say "this car is on the track, invalidate warranty".

I think you may be right with minor claims, but if you have a major issue with the engine or gearbox I would not be surprised if BMW wanted to examine the ECU data-logs to establish exactly what went wrong. Data captured from running around a circuit at wide open throttle for long periods of time would look very different to normal or even fast road use.

[320d is all you need]

Maybe, as I said in the case of the M2 above no issues.

The ECU has some logging capability, but not much. It will log faults at the moment of failure IE *NOW* that split second, it doesn't log historical throttle / boost / speed etc for hours on end.

[BFleming]

320d is all you need said:

The ECU has some logging capability, but not much. It will log faults at the moment of failure IE *NOW* that split second, it doesn't log historical throttle / boost / speed etc for hours on end.

This; you get a snapshot of conditions when any fault was logged, things like engine speed, road speed, throttle position, intake air temp, etc. There are no GPS co-ordinates logged with any fault.
You see a reasonable number of newish cars on trackdays, all with plates removed or taped over. It's the norm, and pretty obvious to everyone concerned why they do it.

[Green George]

That is very interesting; I presume you have gained your experience from working on them. I do find BMW's position very odd and shows a worrying juxtaposition between the servicing and marketing sides of BMW. Clearly there are lot of BMW owners being forced to take considerable risk to use the M & M lite cars as they are designed to be.

[Far Cough]

Advertise the car on track and talk up its race pedigree and then deny any cover if used as supposedly intended.... Winds me up a treat.

It's not hard to tell if a car has been on track though is it. From rubber pickup on the tyres, the sat nav, the ECU data that's stored and Trackday Organisers photos if the plate is not covered.

I've seen the data from a Nissan R35 ECU and it's shows just about everything including the car going round and round in circles with repetitive throttle, brake and yaw inputs effectively drawing the circuit your at..... !!

[320d is all you need]

Far Cough said:

Advertise the car on track and talk up its race pedigree and then deny any cover if used as supposedly intended.... Winds me up a treat.

It's not hard to tell if a car has been on track though is it. From rubber pickup on the tyres, the sat nav, the ECU data that's stored and Trackday Organisers photos if the plate is not covered.

I've seen the data from a Nissan R35 ECU and it's shows just about everything including the car going round and round in circles with repetitive throttle, brake and yaw inputs effectively drawing the circuit your at..... !!

A Nissan R35 is not a BMW.

BMW does not log that data.


Regards
320d

[Green George]

Far Cough said:

Advertise the car on track and talk up its race pedigree and then deny any cover if used as supposedly intended.... Winds me up a treat.

I agree 100% a very short sighted approach IMHO.

[BFleming]

Here's a typical DDE fault code and data, from my own car (BMW 525d). I know it's in German, but anyhow...


So you've got:
Time
Mileage
Engine Speed
Coolant Temp
Max Fuel rail pressure in last 10 miliseconds
Injection amount
Air volume per cylinder
Turbo boost
Battery Voltage
Air pressure
Engine status
Road speed
Accelerator pedal position
Intake air temperature
Air temp after intercooler
Turbo actuator position
EGR valve position
Swirl flap position
Throttle body position
Exhaust pressure before DPF
Exhaust Temp before oxidation cat
...

Different modules produce different reports, and some are very basic, so a FEM for example will give you:
Time
Mileage
Voltage
Fuse status
Light switch position

Edited by BFleming on Monday 1st February 12:33

[Listerine]

Green George said:

Far Cough said:

Advertise the car on track and talk up its race pedigree and then deny any cover if used as supposedly intended.... Winds me up a treat.

I agree 100% a very short sighted approach IMHO.

Seems like the M stands for Marketing

[Mark83]

My understanding is you're covered for track days under the standard three years manufacturer's warranty but it's specifically named as excluded from the extended warranty.

There was a case of BMW refusing a warranty claim which the owner challenged legally and BMW backed down. There was a thread on here about it.

BMW brought a load of new M cars to the last Evo magazine track day I was one. All the usual Y-starting plates of their press and 'management' fleet. They're all then sold within a year and warranty is unaffected. Same goes for the MSV experience cars, they've spent a year on track before going back to BMW to be sold as AUC with warranty.

[Green George]

This video entitled "Will BMW Warranty Be Void If You Track Your Car?" corroborates what you and I have been told that a used BMW Insured Warranty (managed by Allianz-Assistance) will NOT cover track day use. But interestingly goes on to cover the BMW new car warranty and how it is apparently down to the dealer (not BMW) to decide whether or not to honour a warranty claim and BMW apparently will not confirm or deny whether their new car warranty will cover a track day related claim. Food for thought and worth bearing in mind.

Uploaded 17/10/2020 by "Remove Before Launch" (to whom I have no connection) https://youtu.be/6gnfF7AKkRQ