E39 M5 Facelift question
Discussion
Hi,
I have been looking at a lot of E39 M5s lately as I'm looking to buy.
A nice one that I have seen advertised is on an X plate with a production date of 2000-07-04, which I presume means 4th July.
However, it has corona headlights and I cannot tell if the rears are pre or post facelift. However, it has the small screen and a pre-facelift steering wheel. On the spec sheet under 'series options' it lists 522 as 'Xenon headlights' which I have seen on a 2003 model spec sheet also.
Suffice to say that I am a bit confused, as according to the BMW Registry website, it says that facelift production models started from September 2000. Any advice on this matter would be welcome.
Michael
I have been looking at a lot of E39 M5s lately as I'm looking to buy.
A nice one that I have seen advertised is on an X plate with a production date of 2000-07-04, which I presume means 4th July.
However, it has corona headlights and I cannot tell if the rears are pre or post facelift. However, it has the small screen and a pre-facelift steering wheel. On the spec sheet under 'series options' it lists 522 as 'Xenon headlights' which I have seen on a 2003 model spec sheet also.
Suffice to say that I am a bit confused, as according to the BMW Registry website, it says that facelift production models started from September 2000. Any advice on this matter would be welcome.
Michael
Mine is a W reg, and has Xenon low beams, not angel eyes. It was a single year transition during X/W reg's, mine work fine but when the right was scratched by a flying brick (long story) they offered to write the car off!! As they are so rare and no new stock left..
I live with the scratch
And after 175k miles its still the only car I lie awake at night thinking about the drive the next day. Buy the best you can find, personally I like the pre-facelift mine feels almost like a classic now, no Nav at all and a tape deck! And I still can't find anything to replace it with, I should say Join it in the garage as it will never be sold.
I live with the scratch
And after 175k miles its still the only car I lie awake at night thinking about the drive the next day. Buy the best you can find, personally I like the pre-facelift mine feels almost like a classic now, no Nav at all and a tape deck! And I still can't find anything to replace it with, I should say Join it in the garage as it will never be sold.
So do you think that these are standard or a retro fit?
Is there any way of definitively finding out? It is a low mileage vehicle with a high spec, but things that aren't period, original, OEM etc, like retro fitted lights and newly refurbished alloys in silver (not shadowline) are little niggles that are noteworthy (for my preferences!).
Is there any way of definitively finding out? It is a low mileage vehicle with a high spec, but things that aren't period, original, OEM etc, like retro fitted lights and newly refurbished alloys in silver (not shadowline) are little niggles that are noteworthy (for my preferences!).
My dad got one of the first facelift E39s (a 530i) around the 20 September 2000 IIRC - there were still new pre-face lift ones on display in the show room at that time. It still had the old style M steering wheel whereas my 51 plate M5 has a different design. I would agree that the car the OP is looking at is pre-facelift. Another giveaway is the rear lights which were updated with the facelift which have LEDs for the tail lights - there are some aftermarket ones that look like the facelift design but have the 2 blubs a la pre facelift car rather than the LEDs of the facelift. Not 100% sure but I think front parking sensors came only with the facelift. Hope this helps
Face lift E39's got the pre face lift M5 steering wheel. Late ones got the face lift M5 one
Op, the car will deffo be a face lift. It may have the grey dials and oval mirror. My July 99 car only had the grey dials. Mine also didn't come with rear pdc (was only an option in 99 - not sure why the original owner didn't spec it yet specced the sundym rear glass).
Buy on condition.
Op, the car will deffo be a face lift. It may have the grey dials and oval mirror. My July 99 car only had the grey dials. Mine also didn't come with rear pdc (was only an option in 99 - not sure why the original owner didn't spec it yet specced the sundym rear glass).
Buy on condition.
Edited by TheAngryDog on Wednesday 7th January 14:53
A car built in July 2000 will definitely be a pre-facelift.
Things like the Angle Eye head lights are easy to retrofit, many people do it to make their car look newer. The rear lights are a little more difficult to swap, but it can be done, it involves drilling holes and bending the metal behind the rear light cluster plus a small adapter harness and either balasts or a LCM IIIB swap.
The Nav monitor was changed after the face lift, in September 2001. and coincided with the release of the split screen software for the Mk III Nav, the V18 CD or V3-1/40 software.
All but very early M5s had the oval mirror, it is not an indication of facelift or not.
Early cars had the black dials, but many of these were replaced under warranty when pixels failed, I think the changeover was before the facelift date.
In truth, the various small modifications made to the E39 M5 over it's life were released in dribs and drabs at various times, the facelift change was mainly just the lights and the steering wheel/air bag. There are numerous other small changes, but none are significant (for example the C pillar cover is slightly different on earlier cars, but so what!). Don;t get hung up on face lift or not, condition and history are WAY more important.
Things like the Angle Eye head lights are easy to retrofit, many people do it to make their car look newer. The rear lights are a little more difficult to swap, but it can be done, it involves drilling holes and bending the metal behind the rear light cluster plus a small adapter harness and either balasts or a LCM IIIB swap.
The Nav monitor was changed after the face lift, in September 2001. and coincided with the release of the split screen software for the Mk III Nav, the V18 CD or V3-1/40 software.
All but very early M5s had the oval mirror, it is not an indication of facelift or not.
Early cars had the black dials, but many of these were replaced under warranty when pixels failed, I think the changeover was before the facelift date.
In truth, the various small modifications made to the E39 M5 over it's life were released in dribs and drabs at various times, the facelift change was mainly just the lights and the steering wheel/air bag. There are numerous other small changes, but none are significant (for example the C pillar cover is slightly different on earlier cars, but so what!). Don;t get hung up on face lift or not, condition and history are WAY more important.
Thanks Gents.
I am in agreement about condition and in fact the two that I have narrowed down are low mileage, apparently clean examples. One I have inspected already and the 2000 model is being seen on Saturday.
Isn't the upgraded VANOS a significant, if overblown, alteration to the facelift vehicles, in addition to the steering wheel etc?
Also, while I'm at it, could someone please explain to me what the 455 'comfort' and 456 'active' seat options are? I think that the numbers are correct, they are a little blurry on the image that I have been sent.
I am in agreement about condition and in fact the two that I have narrowed down are low mileage, apparently clean examples. One I have inspected already and the 2000 model is being seen on Saturday.
Isn't the upgraded VANOS a significant, if overblown, alteration to the facelift vehicles, in addition to the steering wheel etc?
Also, while I'm at it, could someone please explain to me what the 455 'comfort' and 456 'active' seat options are? I think that the numbers are correct, they are a little blurry on the image that I have been sent.
The VANOS accumulator system was added before the facelift, March or May I think.
456 Comfort seats have a larger head rest and an extra adjustment for the angle of the top part of the back rest. The side bolsters are not quite so high either.
455 Active seats are similar to comfort, but with the addition of 2 pads under the seat which alternately inflate (with Silicone fluid I believe). There will be an extra pair of buttons in the centre console to control them.
Neither 455 or 456 seats are very common, less than 100 of each for RHD cars.
456 Comfort seats have a larger head rest and an extra adjustment for the angle of the top part of the back rest. The side bolsters are not quite so high either.
455 Active seats are similar to comfort, but with the addition of 2 pads under the seat which alternately inflate (with Silicone fluid I believe). There will be an extra pair of buttons in the centre console to control them.
Neither 455 or 456 seats are very common, less than 100 of each for RHD cars.
So this build date in all likelihood has the Vanos accumulator system. Is there any possible check for this?
Do you know of any drivers/owners commenting on the level of support that comfort/active seats offer? They seem quite flat from the images, however the active (inflation) aspect may have been selected in order to compensate for this.
olly22n said:
Seriously, it's not a facelift.
All m5's came with an oval mirror. My w-reg example above had black dials but prefacelift cars got grey dials too.
Not true. My V reg pre face lift didn't, as did other early cars. I would hazard a guess that the earlier pre face lift cars had the clocks swapped by BMW as a result of the pixels being lost. All m5's came with an oval mirror. My w-reg example above had black dials but prefacelift cars got grey dials too.
You can look for the VANOS Accumulator, it's under the bank 1 (passenger side for RHD cars) VANOS unit.
In the middle here, with the tatty old label and black pipe coming from it up to the left (the label is actually on a cover, the accumulator us underneath).
You can see it more easily if you remove the bank 1 MAF.
Comfort seats are a matter of taste (and body size!). Personally I'd not get an M5 with them, they would be better suited to a 540i IMO. You'd have to try them to see what you think.
In the middle here, with the tatty old label and black pipe coming from it up to the left (the label is actually on a cover, the accumulator us underneath).
You can see it more easily if you remove the bank 1 MAF.
Comfort seats are a matter of taste (and body size!). Personally I'd not get an M5 with them, they would be better suited to a 540i IMO. You'd have to try them to see what you think.
minimatan said:
Do you know of any drivers/owners commenting on the level of support that comfort/active seats offer? They seem quite flat from the images, however the active (inflation) aspect may have been selected in order to compensate for this.
Yes, the 530i I mentioned in my previous post (which I ran for a couple of years before changing to the M5) had comfort seats fitted, albeit without the active function. True, they are not as well bolstered as the standard M5 seats and lack their adjustable thigh support however, they were supremely comfortable (as the name suggests - thanks mostly to the ablitiy to alter the angle of the top of the back rest and the shape of the headrests ) and I never wished for more side support - given the choice of the 2 seats I would choose the Comfort ones.Gassing Station | M Power | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff