E39 M5: Buy without warranty?
Discussion
Having bitterly regretted leaving BMW ownership, I am trying to get back, and hopefully in an E39 M5.
While I am aware of the Vanos issue, oil consumption and related maladies, would you - at the right price - venture into buying an otherwise perfect, early (98-99) M5, with full service history and lowish mileage (50-75.000 miles) but without being covered by the extended BMW warranty?
Would BMW bite the bullet and foot the bill for Vanos work, as long as it has a FSH (as some E36 evo/MC owners have managed)?
Thanks!
>>> Edited by rassi on Saturday 27th November 09:14
While I am aware of the Vanos issue, oil consumption and related maladies, would you - at the right price - venture into buying an otherwise perfect, early (98-99) M5, with full service history and lowish mileage (50-75.000 miles) but without being covered by the extended BMW warranty?
Would BMW bite the bullet and foot the bill for Vanos work, as long as it has a FSH (as some E36 evo/MC owners have managed)?
Thanks!
>>> Edited by rassi on Saturday 27th November 09:14
In a one word answer to your thread title...
No.
The parts alone are £1200 if the VANOS is FUBAR. If the car is a one owner FBMWSH car there MAY be an element of goodwill... IE BMW pay for the parts you swallow the labour....
You can't just wander in and buy a warranty either i'm afraid...
No.
The parts alone are £1200 if the VANOS is FUBAR. If the car is a one owner FBMWSH car there MAY be an element of goodwill... IE BMW pay for the parts you swallow the labour....
You can't just wander in and buy a warranty either i'm afraid...
rassi said:
Having bitterly regretted leaving BMW ownership, I am trying to get back, and hopefully in an E39 M5.
While I am aware of the Vanos issue, oil consumption and related maladies, would you - at the right price - venture into buying an otherwise perfect, early (98-99) M5, with full service history and lowish mileage (50-75.000 miles) but without being covered by the extended BMW warranty?
Would BMW bite the bullet and foot the bill for Vanos work, as long as it has a FSH (as some E36 evo/MC owners have managed)?
Thanks!
>>> Edited by rassi on Saturday 27th November 09:14
Rassi, mine doesn't have the BMW warranty, but i have taken out an RAC warranty which DOES cover VANOS if it were to be a problem. Not bad for 200 notes....
I did have my clutch and flywheel replaced by the dealer and they paid despite the car being out of warranty on the grounds that a clutch an 22k mile shouldn't fail - I was pleasantly surprised by this attitude.
Car is awesome though - can't reccommend
it highly enough
>> Edited by stuh on Saturday 27th November 21:00
I was about to post the exact same question.
I spent a couple of hours over at Munich Legends yesterday chatting to them about buying an M5. Having researched a lot on here my view was no but... the issues to my mind (and to which I don't have definitive answers) are:
1. Having to use main dealers rather than specialists such as ML if you have the BM warranty. From current experience I would much rather deal with a specialist
2. Ongoing cost of the warranty and the increased service costs of using main dealers.
My question is are there any circumstances people would consider buying without warranty such as when purchasing from a specialist, cars newer than a certain age - can't remember if the VANOS issue covers all M5s or only certain years - etc etc
very interested in the answers!
TIA
Beau
I spent a couple of hours over at Munich Legends yesterday chatting to them about buying an M5. Having researched a lot on here my view was no but... the issues to my mind (and to which I don't have definitive answers) are:
1. Having to use main dealers rather than specialists such as ML if you have the BM warranty. From current experience I would much rather deal with a specialist
2. Ongoing cost of the warranty and the increased service costs of using main dealers.
My question is are there any circumstances people would consider buying without warranty such as when purchasing from a specialist, cars newer than a certain age - can't remember if the VANOS issue covers all M5s or only certain years - etc etc
very interested in the answers!
TIA
Beau
chim_girl said:
..i have taken out an RAC warranty which DOES cover VANOS if it were to be a problem. Not bad for 200 notes....
Are you sure the RAC warranty covers the Vanos? I asked when I bought the M3, they said it was excluded.
Yep. I specifically asked if there were any exclusions relating to engine and they said no. This is confirmed in the detailed terms and conditions.
Hoping i'll never have to use it though.....
Sorry to bring this back to the top but as a prospective M5 owner I'm very interested in this!
I know the advice is only buy with a warranty but I'm interested to know if there are any circumstances that people would consider a good car with (say) an inspection from an independent M series specialist.
Also whether the info (which I think I read on here or BMW owners club site) regarding the fact that from Jan 05 BMW will be putting the cost of the warranty up some £400 per year. Does anyone know anything about this? My thoughts are if the warranty is £1k per year to renew it further reduces the viability of purchasing an M5 with a warranty - even a long one into 06 as you then either take a hit when selling without renewing it or the hit of 1k to renew.
Thoughts and advice much appreciated if folk aren't completely sick of the subject
Beau
I know the advice is only buy with a warranty but I'm interested to know if there are any circumstances that people would consider a good car with (say) an inspection from an independent M series specialist.
Also whether the info (which I think I read on here or BMW owners club site) regarding the fact that from Jan 05 BMW will be putting the cost of the warranty up some £400 per year. Does anyone know anything about this? My thoughts are if the warranty is £1k per year to renew it further reduces the viability of purchasing an M5 with a warranty - even a long one into 06 as you then either take a hit when selling without renewing it or the hit of 1k to renew.
Thoughts and advice much appreciated if folk aren't completely sick of the subject
Beau
In case anyone missed it....
YOU CAN NO LONGER BUY A BMW WARRANTY FOR ANY BMW ONCE IT HAS EXPIRED.
At £80-£100 an hour labour you only need the car to go wrong once and the warranty will pay for itself... No matter what you pay aor whose it is...
Cheers..
>> Edited by ScoobyZoom on Friday 3rd December 13:06
YOU CAN NO LONGER BUY A BMW WARRANTY FOR ANY BMW ONCE IT HAS EXPIRED.
At £80-£100 an hour labour you only need the car to go wrong once and the warranty will pay for itself... No matter what you pay aor whose it is...
Cheers..
>> Edited by ScoobyZoom on Friday 3rd December 13:06
Beau said:Normally it all depends on your budget and what percentage of that budget will be used to buy the car. If you have a budget of £30K and you buy a car for £25K you could quite reasonably assume that you've got a £5K buffer which will last you a long time and it would be 'ok' to buy the car without a warranty, or perhaps a cheaper warranty.
I know the advice is only buy with a warranty but I'm interested to know if there are any circumstances that people would consider a good car with (say) an inspection from an independent M series specialist.
However, I think there are enough 'known' problems with the M5 to make it highly likely that you will experience problems which don't cost £500 to repair, or even £1500.
When my cylinder block was replaced last year, the parts cost alone came to £7500. Add to that a hefty labour bill and you'd be well into 5 figures!
Beau said:Yes, increases in warranty costs are certainly something to think about (it'll make me think when I have to renew next year) but I think that should make you question whether you can afford the car, not whether to let the warranty lapse or not!
My thoughts are if the warranty is £1k per year to renew it further reduces the viability of purchasing an M5 with a warranty - even a long one into 06 as you then either take a hit when selling without renewing it or the hit of 1k to renew.
And don't forget, the BMW warranty is really very good - and in my experience there is a -lot- of BMW 'good will' gestures given out. I'm not sure whether this is a dealer thing, or down to the warranty. But i've never had a struggle to get things replaced - quite the opposite.
However, I would recommend trying out more than one dealer for servicing - the M5 is a specialist car and it seems to me that some dealers just don't seem to have the nous to handle them when they go wrong.
Bought my M5 without a warranty. Had 7 BMW's now and none have had warranties.
In all that time I can't remember ever paying BMW £80 an hour for anything. Fixed price indies are the way to go. Although BMW is meant to have a list of fixed prices the dealers rarely tell you that or even stick to them.
I think if you want to rely on BMW then get the warranty. If you don't mind using a bit of common and occasionally getting dirty then get a mechanic to check the car out, and you should be okay. There are no guarantees, not even when you have a warranty.
In all that time I can't remember ever paying BMW £80 an hour for anything. Fixed price indies are the way to go. Although BMW is meant to have a list of fixed prices the dealers rarely tell you that or even stick to them.
I think if you want to rely on BMW then get the warranty. If you don't mind using a bit of common and occasionally getting dirty then get a mechanic to check the car out, and you should be okay. There are no guarantees, not even when you have a warranty.
superlightr said:
you can have a lemon of a car from any make.
Shame my Lemon was a 1999 M5, with BMW warrenty which fell apart and was dangerous to drive and caused me to shake after driving it (and not through pleasure)
You're really not a fan are you
At least tell us some of the horror stories!
chim_girl said:
I could be wrong, one of the exclusions is for known manufacturing defects isn't it? The RAC person I spoke to said that the Vanos issue was a known defect and that it would be excluded.
Its a known defect on the M3, its not a know defect on the M5.. even though they can go wrong..
if that makes any sense at all!
I have in the past, it gets boring, the thread has been deleted now. (M5 Finally)
Futie held my hand and helped me through the acid of the ownership.
it would be easier to say what did not fail. Main gripe was a broken antiroll bar at the rear which broke whilst overtaking. Loss of power, vanos failures, various ABS DSC sensor failures & Cat failures, all on a dealership car. fing BMW engineer couldn't feel the anitroll bar was broken when he drove it after I reported it not cornering & handling correctly, only when he put it on a ramp did he looked a bit shocked.
I coulnt stand it any more and lodged a letter with our solicitors and a friend who was a crash investigator listing the problems we were having in case I did not come back from using the car one day - it was that bad. Refused to let my wife drive it.
got cash compensation from BMW and got rid of it. I think it was 'fixed' at the end but my nerves were shot with it. Porker owner now and very happy.
>> Edited by superlightr on Saturday 4th December 22:38
>> Edited by superlightr on Saturday 4th December 22:39
Futie held my hand and helped me through the acid of the ownership.
it would be easier to say what did not fail. Main gripe was a broken antiroll bar at the rear which broke whilst overtaking. Loss of power, vanos failures, various ABS DSC sensor failures & Cat failures, all on a dealership car. fing BMW engineer couldn't feel the anitroll bar was broken when he drove it after I reported it not cornering & handling correctly, only when he put it on a ramp did he looked a bit shocked.
I coulnt stand it any more and lodged a letter with our solicitors and a friend who was a crash investigator listing the problems we were having in case I did not come back from using the car one day - it was that bad. Refused to let my wife drive it.
got cash compensation from BMW and got rid of it. I think it was 'fixed' at the end but my nerves were shot with it. Porker owner now and very happy.
>> Edited by superlightr on Saturday 4th December 22:38
>> Edited by superlightr on Saturday 4th December 22:39
I dont have a gripe to grind but when someones askes about a E39 M5, they are not all the utimate driving machine, and certainly would not touch one without a comprihensive warrenty.
As said earlier, mine was a lemon, can happen to any car of any make. Shame mine wasnt fixed for so long and multiple safty critical items failed.
As said earlier, mine was a lemon, can happen to any car of any make. Shame mine wasnt fixed for so long and multiple safty critical items failed.
vixpy1 said:
Its a known defect on the M3, its not a know defect on the M5.. even though they can go wrong..
if that makes any sense at all!
Vanos is a know defect on the M5 and there is an update computer programm for it as well now.
Thanks for all the replies - sorry to hear about your bad experience superlightr and I think you are right that you can get a lemon from any manufacturer.
Futie - I think you're spot on when you say:
[quote]that should make you question whether you can afford the car, not whether to let the warranty lapse or not![/quote]
Having found another thread on running costs which you contributed to futie the main difference from my scooby would seem to be tyres, servicing and the warranty costs...(and oil probably)!
- Petrol (up to 22mpg) - same as Scoob
- Insurance (£1k pa) - roughly same as scoob
- Two bent alloys (£400 ea) -
- Set of tyres (£700) (ouch
)
Plus warranty (up to £1k pa if rumoured increases are correct)
Servicing (approx £250) - scoob standard around £180
Hmm - need to sit down and work out carefully the answer to your question Futie!
Thanks again all.
Beau
Futie - I think you're spot on when you say:
[quote]that should make you question whether you can afford the car, not whether to let the warranty lapse or not![/quote]
Having found another thread on running costs which you contributed to futie the main difference from my scooby would seem to be tyres, servicing and the warranty costs...(and oil probably)!
- Petrol (up to 22mpg) - same as Scoob
- Insurance (£1k pa) - roughly same as scoob
- Two bent alloys (£400 ea) -
- Set of tyres (£700) (ouch
) Plus warranty (up to £1k pa if rumoured increases are correct)
Servicing (approx £250) - scoob standard around £180
Hmm - need to sit down and work out carefully the answer to your question Futie!
Thanks again all.
Beau
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