anyone need a job
Discussion
I was not sure exactly which forum to put this in so I thought a Job in the OFF highway automotive supply industry was sort of car related. I know there's a jobs section in the classified but this bit of the forum gets more traffic.
Anyway. I'm looking for 2 assembly operators to start Immediately, the pay is not brilliant, although with overtime and shift allowance it's okay and for people that come in EVERY day and work reasonably hard, there are extra small bonuses. Starting wage is £5.65 basic (but is being reviewed in the next 2 weeks) rising to £6.15 after 6 months (Again being reviewed so I guess it might go up 2%)
Did I mention it's 3 shifts, and you will be assembling and testing small high volume sub assies.
It's in Runcorn, there is scope for the right people to move to a first level maintenance role of automated equipment, or to team leader.
Anyway my HR manager is using the usual agencies, but I thoought I'd throw it open to my pistonhead buddies.
I'll email full job description and application for anyone seriously interested
A friend from another forum (Cavweb/vxon) did this as an in-fill for a few weeks before joining the RAF and found it erm TEDIOUS !!
The only plus point is that I'd be your boss and I'm NOT a t
t !!
Comments are welcome as it's in the piston and pie section.
Anyway. I'm looking for 2 assembly operators to start Immediately, the pay is not brilliant, although with overtime and shift allowance it's okay and for people that come in EVERY day and work reasonably hard, there are extra small bonuses. Starting wage is £5.65 basic (but is being reviewed in the next 2 weeks) rising to £6.15 after 6 months (Again being reviewed so I guess it might go up 2%)
Did I mention it's 3 shifts, and you will be assembling and testing small high volume sub assies.
It's in Runcorn, there is scope for the right people to move to a first level maintenance role of automated equipment, or to team leader.
Anyway my HR manager is using the usual agencies, but I thoought I'd throw it open to my pistonhead buddies.
I'll email full job description and application for anyone seriously interested
A friend from another forum (Cavweb/vxon) did this as an in-fill for a few weeks before joining the RAF and found it erm TEDIOUS !!
The only plus point is that I'd be your boss and I'm NOT a t
t !! Comments are welcome as it's in the piston and pie section.
jacko lah said:
the pay is not brilliant, although with overtime and shift allowance it's okay and for people that come in EVERY day and work reasonably hard, there are extra small bonuses. Starting wage is £5.65 basic (but is being reviewed in the next 2 weeks) rising to £6.15 after 6 months (Again being reviewed so I guess it might go up 2%)
A friend from another forum (Cavweb/vxon) did this as an in-fill for a few weeks before joining the RAF and found it erm TEDIOUS !!
A friend from another forum (Cavweb/vxon) did this as an in-fill for a few weeks before joining the RAF and found it erm TEDIOUS !!
you realy know how to sell the job don't you
(a refreshingly honest job description though!!)
jacko lah said:
kermitman said:
nice try but i cant see people queueing up for it, a 40 hour week for £226
and shifts at that
good luck
and shifts at that
good luck
With shifts and overtime there are people taking home £1000 a month
Which explains why your kids need to be encouraged to work hard at school.
let me just get back onto my chair from laughing so much i fell off!
so bonuses ad up to £24. romanians and bulgarians are looking for jobs, you should go to the ports and grab them as they come in
too true about kids working hard at school but my advice is if you want to earn a good wage you need to be self employed
kermitman said:
jacko lah said:
kermitman said:
nice try but i cant see people queueing up for it, a 40 hour week for £226
and shifts at that
good luck
and shifts at that
good luck
With shifts and overtime there are people taking home £1000 a month
Which explains why your kids need to be encouraged to work hard at school.
let me just get back onto my chair from laughing so much i fell off!
so bonuses ad up to £24. romanians and bulgarians are looking for jobs, you should go to the ports and grab them as they come in
too true about kids working hard at school but my advice is if you want to earn a good wage you need to be self employed
I know it's crap. Personally I thnk we should offer more and expect more.
I'm with C2 on this one.
However it was meant, saying
let me just get back onto my chair from laughing so much i fell off!
Makes you sound like an pretentious tt.
Hopefully a misunderstanding on my part of some sort
However it was meant, saying
kermitman said:
jacko lah said:
With shifts and overtime there are people taking home £1000 a month
let me just get back onto my chair from laughing so much i fell off!
Makes you sound like an pretentious t
t. Hopefully a misunderstanding on my part of some sort
I don't know about anyone else, but the work hard at school thing is a myth. Don't work too hard. Get a degree in business studies, law or medicine or something.
I got a degree in engineering, and I've been surviving on these sorts of jobs.
I can't do this one, because it's well out of my area. On the basis of what I'm about to say I doubt I'd get it anyhow. The thing is though that the end result is always the same. The employer wants to pay more and expect more. The reality is that their money is next month, and your input is now.
You solve their hardest problems, but you work at or about the minimum wage. I'm not sure that I can blame the employers, because we're apparently competing directly with the Far Eastern wage rate.
To the employer, you'll probably get what you need, and every now and then you'll get a gem. To the potential (bulgarian?) employee, it's definately a way in, but don't forget that engineering is like snakes and ladders. Unless your boss is truly exeptional, it's natural that he'll keep the ladders, and pass the snakes on.
I got a degree in engineering, and I've been surviving on these sorts of jobs.
I can't do this one, because it's well out of my area. On the basis of what I'm about to say I doubt I'd get it anyhow. The thing is though that the end result is always the same. The employer wants to pay more and expect more. The reality is that their money is next month, and your input is now.
You solve their hardest problems, but you work at or about the minimum wage. I'm not sure that I can blame the employers, because we're apparently competing directly with the Far Eastern wage rate.
To the employer, you'll probably get what you need, and every now and then you'll get a gem. To the potential (bulgarian?) employee, it's definately a way in, but don't forget that engineering is like snakes and ladders. Unless your boss is truly exeptional, it's natural that he'll keep the ladders, and pass the snakes on.
Edited by dilbert on Tuesday 9th January 15:23
Best place to fill these jobs is an ad at the local job centre and place several ads in shop windows. Agencies working at this level just want to put bums on seats and don't care who they put in front of you as long as they get some money from you, so they can be a waste of time. The first option is more cost effective and very efficacious. Believe or not this will work a treat. The salaries you offer aren't brilliant but it's better than being on the dole, and at the end of the day the location is Runcorn so i am not surprised you aren't paying much, but then again don't expect to find diamonds in the rough.
Also the ad needs to read and sound a lot better than what you have written up on this thread. Honesty is great and highly commended but that won't fill the job and although nobody is saying you should tell lies on your job ad or job specs, there are ways of making the job sound attractive despite the wages on offer.
Once you get someone through the door and they are sat in front of you, sell the opportunity. If you like them and they like you don't faff about, offer them a job and strike while the iron is hot!!! Too many good people are lost because companies faff about interviewing shedloads of people over weeks and weeks, and then when they come to make job offers they find that because they have faffed about so much the people they want on board have found jobs elsewhere. Very common!!
It doesn't matter what the jobs are, you will fill them if you follow this advice. Period!!
How do i know this.....i run a recruitment company and i've been in recruitment for nearly 20yrs.
I am always happy to help out fellow PHer's so if you would like any further advice please let me know.
Also the ad needs to read and sound a lot better than what you have written up on this thread. Honesty is great and highly commended but that won't fill the job and although nobody is saying you should tell lies on your job ad or job specs, there are ways of making the job sound attractive despite the wages on offer.
Once you get someone through the door and they are sat in front of you, sell the opportunity. If you like them and they like you don't faff about, offer them a job and strike while the iron is hot!!! Too many good people are lost because companies faff about interviewing shedloads of people over weeks and weeks, and then when they come to make job offers they find that because they have faffed about so much the people they want on board have found jobs elsewhere. Very common!!
It doesn't matter what the jobs are, you will fill them if you follow this advice. Period!!
How do i know this.....i run a recruitment company and i've been in recruitment for nearly 20yrs.
I am always happy to help out fellow PHer's so if you would like any further advice please let me know.
Edited by scoobiewrx on Tuesday 9th January 23:59
dilbert said:
I got a degree in engineering, and I've been surviving on these sorts of jobs.
Sorry, but I think that is misleading for people reading this. Can't comment on your situation but I'm only commenting here as I wouldn't want people mislead that engineering isn't a worthwhile profession. For many it is.
Engineering isn't as highly respecting in the UK as it should be but anyone with a decent degree in engineering from a non-mickey mouse University should easily be able to achieve significantly above minimum wage.
che6mw said:
dilbert said:
I got a degree in engineering, and I've been surviving on these sorts of jobs.
Sorry, but I think that is misleading for people reading this. Can't comment on your situation but I'm only commenting here as I wouldn't want people mislead that engineering isn't a worthwhile profession. For many it is.
Engineering isn't as highly respecting in the UK as it should be but anyone with a decent degree in engineering from a non-mickey mouse University should easily be able to achieve significantly above minimum wage.
I would suggest otherwise, but clearly I can't comment on your situation either. I have to say that I don't know of anyone in my locality who is an engineer, and has at least one of the folowing situations to consider;
1) Transfer to project management or sales.
2) Fear impending redundancy.
3) Cope with the actuality of redundancy.
4) Sit in a job where your title says "engineer" but behave as a "finance warrior".
From a personal perspective, I'd rather earn the minimum wage, than assimilate mistruths.
out of interest what type of engineer are you? What degree did you do? It sounds miles away from the experience I have had over the last 5-6 years.
Again, only curious to present a balanced picture of engineering as a profession in UK as I'm sure lots of school kids read this forum.
Again, only curious to present a balanced picture of engineering as a profession in UK as I'm sure lots of school kids read this forum.
Edited by che6mw on Tuesday 16th January 04:24
dilbert said:
I don't know about anyone else, but the work hard at school thing is a myth. Don't work too hard. Get a degree in business studies, law or medicine or something.
I got a degree in engineering, and I've been surviving on these sorts of jobs.
I can't do this one, because it's well out of my area. On the basis of what I'm about to say I doubt I'd get it anyhow. The thing is though that the end result is always the same. The employer wants to pay more and expect more. The reality is that their money is next month, and your input is now.
You solve their hardest problems, but you work at or about the minimum wage. I'm not sure that I can blame the employers, because we're apparently competing directly with the Far Eastern wage rate.
To the employer, you'll probably get what you need, and every now and then you'll get a gem. To the potential (bulgarian?) employee, it's definately a way in, but don't forget that engineering is like snakes and ladders. Unless your boss is truly exeptional, it's natural that he'll keep the ladders, and pass the snakes on.
I got a degree in engineering, and I've been surviving on these sorts of jobs.
I can't do this one, because it's well out of my area. On the basis of what I'm about to say I doubt I'd get it anyhow. The thing is though that the end result is always the same. The employer wants to pay more and expect more. The reality is that their money is next month, and your input is now.
You solve their hardest problems, but you work at or about the minimum wage. I'm not sure that I can blame the employers, because we're apparently competing directly with the Far Eastern wage rate.
To the employer, you'll probably get what you need, and every now and then you'll get a gem. To the potential (bulgarian?) employee, it's definately a way in, but don't forget that engineering is like snakes and ladders. Unless your boss is truly exeptional, it's natural that he'll keep the ladders, and pass the snakes on.
Edited by dilbert on Tuesday 9th January 15:23
Isn't maunfacturing in the UK great, problem is we all want to pay nothing for stuff yet want paying a massive salary. Glad i went into Engineering!
Oops, apologies, I hadn't noticed your post.
I'm alsorts of engineer me. My degree was electronics, primarily digital systems. I guess that makes me a digital systems engineer. The last five or six years, is the problem period for me. Much of my work has been defence related, but the best of it generally surrounds high speed, high bandwidth radar processing.
I'm not sure I want to post too much about myself on a public forum, so I'll refrain if I may.
It's probably summed up as follows; I worked for a while the MOD in London, for a guy that originally came from the Air Ministry (late fifties), and his claim to fame was that he never actually worked on a programme that wasn't cancelled. I'm beginning to know how he feels.
My problem is not specifically that I can't get work, it's that I can't get work without having to loose my place on the housing ladder. Speculatively, that could be good or bad, but I currently think that it might be bad. That said, I don't have a choice anymore because I am now only able to survive by the goodwill of my folks, and I'm not happy about that, whereas I don't mind about the state handouts.
Two things stand out for me in all of this.
Firstly, it seems to me that there is a very regional aspect to the whole thing. If I said that I think that the Labour heartlands have had it far easier than elsewhere, I don't think I'd be wrong. Though I would never vote Labour, I wasn't happy when Maggie closed the mines. I still think we should be burning that coal (and investing in the technology to make it clean).
I often get a sense that those who remember the mine closures closely, aren't unhappy with the current situation south of London. Perhaps what they forget is that the people who are being targetted by Labour are working conservatives in Da Saaf (you might call us Chavs), and not those who wanted the mine closures. I also get a sense that New Labour is equally poor when it comes to pacifying racial tensions nationally.
You guessed it, I think I'm going to end up moving North, until about five years after the conservatives get back in, and I'll re asses.
Secondly I think that engineering is a bad bet given the UK direction into service industries. Legal, financial and business degrees must surely be a better bet. There are huge profits to be made from engineering, but these industries have attracted their fair share of "hangers on", which has made it difficult to remain profitable. Our standards end up so high, we never get the cost benefit ratio right.
At the middle of the 18th century Britons knew how to exploit industry for capital gain. Investment in european industry from a capitalist, rather than an industrialist perspective, is very risky. At the moment it's easier for the banks to make good consistent profits. It is central to the economic outlook for the country. In the end we know that our far eastern competitors will succed us because they are those that make what we buy.
An industrialist is more interested in what he can achieve than what he can earn. This is both virtuous and vicious. The same is true for those who are more interested in what they can earn than what they can achieve. The former to my mind is hubristic, but without avarice, the latter avaricious, but without hubris. In and of themselves both are harmless, but the transition of a society between, damages all.
We reached our technical peak during the second world war, and although there have been significant developments, whatever the computer achieves it will not eclipse the nuclear weapon. It defines the peak. European engineering capacity is in decline, and if I had understood this the way I do now, I would never have chosen to be an engineer. It's not a rational choice.
I'm alsorts of engineer me. My degree was electronics, primarily digital systems. I guess that makes me a digital systems engineer. The last five or six years, is the problem period for me. Much of my work has been defence related, but the best of it generally surrounds high speed, high bandwidth radar processing.
I'm not sure I want to post too much about myself on a public forum, so I'll refrain if I may.
It's probably summed up as follows; I worked for a while the MOD in London, for a guy that originally came from the Air Ministry (late fifties), and his claim to fame was that he never actually worked on a programme that wasn't cancelled. I'm beginning to know how he feels.
My problem is not specifically that I can't get work, it's that I can't get work without having to loose my place on the housing ladder. Speculatively, that could be good or bad, but I currently think that it might be bad. That said, I don't have a choice anymore because I am now only able to survive by the goodwill of my folks, and I'm not happy about that, whereas I don't mind about the state handouts.
Two things stand out for me in all of this.
Firstly, it seems to me that there is a very regional aspect to the whole thing. If I said that I think that the Labour heartlands have had it far easier than elsewhere, I don't think I'd be wrong. Though I would never vote Labour, I wasn't happy when Maggie closed the mines. I still think we should be burning that coal (and investing in the technology to make it clean).
I often get a sense that those who remember the mine closures closely, aren't unhappy with the current situation south of London. Perhaps what they forget is that the people who are being targetted by Labour are working conservatives in Da Saaf (you might call us Chavs), and not those who wanted the mine closures. I also get a sense that New Labour is equally poor when it comes to pacifying racial tensions nationally.
You guessed it, I think I'm going to end up moving North, until about five years after the conservatives get back in, and I'll re asses.
Secondly I think that engineering is a bad bet given the UK direction into service industries. Legal, financial and business degrees must surely be a better bet. There are huge profits to be made from engineering, but these industries have attracted their fair share of "hangers on", which has made it difficult to remain profitable. Our standards end up so high, we never get the cost benefit ratio right.
At the middle of the 18th century Britons knew how to exploit industry for capital gain. Investment in european industry from a capitalist, rather than an industrialist perspective, is very risky. At the moment it's easier for the banks to make good consistent profits. It is central to the economic outlook for the country. In the end we know that our far eastern competitors will succed us because they are those that make what we buy.
An industrialist is more interested in what he can achieve than what he can earn. This is both virtuous and vicious. The same is true for those who are more interested in what they can earn than what they can achieve. The former to my mind is hubristic, but without avarice, the latter avaricious, but without hubris. In and of themselves both are harmless, but the transition of a society between, damages all.
We reached our technical peak during the second world war, and although there have been significant developments, whatever the computer achieves it will not eclipse the nuclear weapon. It defines the peak. European engineering capacity is in decline, and if I had understood this the way I do now, I would never have chosen to be an engineer. It's not a rational choice.
Edited by dilbert on Friday 19th January 03:02
dilbert said:
Oops, apologies, I hadn't noticed your post.
I'm alsorts of engineer me. My degree was electronics, primarily digital systems. I guess that makes me a digital systems engineer. The last five or six years, is the problem period for me. Much of my work has been defence related, but the best of it generally surrounds high speed, high bandwidth radar processing.
I'm not sure I want to post too much about myself on a public forum, so I'll refrain if I may.
It's probably summed up as follows; I worked for a while the MOD in London, for a guy that originally came from the Air Ministry (late fifties), and his claim to fame was that he never actually worked on a programme that wasn't cancelled. I'm beginning to know how he feels.
My problem is not specifically that I can't get work, it's that I can't get work without having to loose my place on the housing ladder. Speculatively, that could be good or bad, but I currently think that it might be bad. That said, I don't have a choice anymore because I am now only able to survive by the goodwill of my folks, and I'm not happy about that, whereas I don't mind about the state handouts.
Two things stand out for me in all of this.
Firstly, it seems to me that there is a very regional aspect to the whole thing. If I said that I think that the Labour heartlands have had it far easier than elsewhere, I don't think I'd be wrong. Though I would never vote Labour, I wasn't happy when Maggie closed the mines. I still think we should be burning that coal (and investing in the technology to make it clean).
I often get a sense that those who remember the mine closures closely, aren't unhappy with the current situation south of London. Perhaps what they forget is that the people who are being targetted by Labour are working conservatives in Da Saaf (you might call us Chavs), and not those who wanted the mine closures. I also get a sense that New Labour is equally poor when it comes to pacifying racial tensions nationally.
You guessed it, I think I'm going to end up moving North, until about five years after the conservatives get back in, and I'll re asses.
Secondly I think that engineering is a bad bet given the UK direction into service industries. Legal, financial and business degrees must surely be a better bet. There are huge profits to be made from engineering, but these industries have attracted their fair share of "hangers on", which has made it difficult to remain profitable. Our standards end up so high, we never get the cost benefit ratio right.
At the middle of the 18th century Britons knew how to exploit industry for capital gain. Investment in european industry from a capitalist, rather than an industrialist perspective, is very risky. At the moment it's easier for the banks to make good consistent profits. It is central to the economic outlook for the country. In the end we know that our far eastern competitors will succed us because they are those that make what we buy.
An industrialist is more interested in what he can achieve than what he can earn. This is both virtuous and vicious. The same is true for those who are more interested in what they can earn than what they can achieve. The former to my mind is hubristic, but without avarice, the latter avaricious, but without hubris. In and of themselves both are harmless, but the transition of a society between, damages all.
We reached our technical peak during the second world war, and although there have been significant developments, whatever the computer achieves it will not eclipse the nuclear weapon. It defines the peak. European engineering capacity is in decline, and if I had understood this the way I do now, I would never have chosen to be an engineer. It's not a rational choice.
I'm alsorts of engineer me. My degree was electronics, primarily digital systems. I guess that makes me a digital systems engineer. The last five or six years, is the problem period for me. Much of my work has been defence related, but the best of it generally surrounds high speed, high bandwidth radar processing.
I'm not sure I want to post too much about myself on a public forum, so I'll refrain if I may.
It's probably summed up as follows; I worked for a while the MOD in London, for a guy that originally came from the Air Ministry (late fifties), and his claim to fame was that he never actually worked on a programme that wasn't cancelled. I'm beginning to know how he feels.
My problem is not specifically that I can't get work, it's that I can't get work without having to loose my place on the housing ladder. Speculatively, that could be good or bad, but I currently think that it might be bad. That said, I don't have a choice anymore because I am now only able to survive by the goodwill of my folks, and I'm not happy about that, whereas I don't mind about the state handouts.
Two things stand out for me in all of this.
Firstly, it seems to me that there is a very regional aspect to the whole thing. If I said that I think that the Labour heartlands have had it far easier than elsewhere, I don't think I'd be wrong. Though I would never vote Labour, I wasn't happy when Maggie closed the mines. I still think we should be burning that coal (and investing in the technology to make it clean).
I often get a sense that those who remember the mine closures closely, aren't unhappy with the current situation south of London. Perhaps what they forget is that the people who are being targetted by Labour are working conservatives in Da Saaf (you might call us Chavs), and not those who wanted the mine closures. I also get a sense that New Labour is equally poor when it comes to pacifying racial tensions nationally.
You guessed it, I think I'm going to end up moving North, until about five years after the conservatives get back in, and I'll re asses.
Secondly I think that engineering is a bad bet given the UK direction into service industries. Legal, financial and business degrees must surely be a better bet. There are huge profits to be made from engineering, but these industries have attracted their fair share of "hangers on", which has made it difficult to remain profitable. Our standards end up so high, we never get the cost benefit ratio right.
At the middle of the 18th century Britons knew how to exploit industry for capital gain. Investment in european industry from a capitalist, rather than an industrialist perspective, is very risky. At the moment it's easier for the banks to make good consistent profits. It is central to the economic outlook for the country. In the end we know that our far eastern competitors will succed us because they are those that make what we buy.
An industrialist is more interested in what he can achieve than what he can earn. This is both virtuous and vicious. The same is true for those who are more interested in what they can earn than what they can achieve. The former to my mind is hubristic, but without avarice, the latter avaricious, but without hubris. In and of themselves both are harmless, but the transition of a society between, damages all.
We reached our technical peak during the second world war, and although there have been significant developments, whatever the computer achieves it will not eclipse the nuclear weapon. It defines the peak. European engineering capacity is in decline, and if I had understood this the way I do now, I would never have chosen to be an engineer. It's not a rational choice.
Edited by dilbert on Friday 19th January 03:02
I am VERY pleased with the opportunities and prospects in Engineering. Yes, the financial and legal industries do *seem* to pay more but considering I have a permanent job and also do contracting I couldn’t possible complain that there isn’t enough work around, and money is defiantly good
IMO the problem with Engineering is that unless you own your own development or product house, there isn’t a huge amount of money in the technical aspect. A friend who works hard contracting is taking home 75k and I haven’t heard of anyone being on more for a technical job. Moving into management and the aforementioned career directions would yield more. The important aspect of Engineering, it is what you know and also who you know. I know many people that don’t require anything like the knowledge of your average Engineer to be successful, and then there’s keeping up with new methods and technologies. Oh and also the broad level knowledge around what an Engineer specialises in – it’s by no means easy money.
I share your concern about the future of Engineering in this country. Maybe I’m being paranoid but I think because of the lack of Engineering representation in the powers-that-be causes a lack of direction in terms of its importance – especially where developing new technologies are concerned. They seem to be putting all there eggs in one (financial) basket and are setting themselves (and us) up for a big fall.
BTW: I share you opinion on choice of motor - When I’ve worn my current daily hack into the ground I will probably go down the same route
I also prefer the north but I stay in the south because of the abundance of jobs. scoobiewrx said:
Dilbert, I am always looking for good quallity engineers. I run an electronics recruitment consultancy. Email me or take a look at my profile and my info is there. Cheers, Francis.
I'll make a note of that if you dont mind
Edited to add: OK, The moneys shite! I take it all back...
www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=345767&f=141&h=0
Edited by polus on Saturday 20th January 21:46
polus said:
dilbert said:
Oops, apologies, I hadn't noticed your post.
I'm alsorts of engineer me. My degree was electronics, primarily digital systems. I guess that makes me a digital systems engineer. The last five or six years, is the problem period for me. Much of my work has been defence related, but the best of it generally surrounds high speed, high bandwidth radar processing.
I'm not sure I want to post too much about myself on a public forum, so I'll refrain if I may.
It's probably summed up as follows; I worked for a while the MOD in London, for a guy that originally came from the Air Ministry (late fifties), and his claim to fame was that he never actually worked on a programme that wasn't cancelled. I'm beginning to know how he feels.
My problem is not specifically that I can't get work, it's that I can't get work without having to loose my place on the housing ladder. Speculatively, that could be good or bad, but I currently think that it might be bad. That said, I don't have a choice anymore because I am now only able to survive by the goodwill of my folks, and I'm not happy about that, whereas I don't mind about the state handouts.
Two things stand out for me in all of this.
Firstly, it seems to me that there is a very regional aspect to the whole thing. If I said that I think that the Labour heartlands have had it far easier than elsewhere, I don't think I'd be wrong. Though I would never vote Labour, I wasn't happy when Maggie closed the mines. I still think we should be burning that coal (and investing in the technology to make it clean).
I often get a sense that those who remember the mine closures closely, aren't unhappy with the current situation south of London. Perhaps what they forget is that the people who are being targetted by Labour are working conservatives in Da Saaf (you might call us Chavs), and not those who wanted the mine closures. I also get a sense that New Labour is equally poor when it comes to pacifying racial tensions nationally.
You guessed it, I think I'm going to end up moving North, until about five years after the conservatives get back in, and I'll re asses.
Secondly I think that engineering is a bad bet given the UK direction into service industries. Legal, financial and business degrees must surely be a better bet. There are huge profits to be made from engineering, but these industries have attracted their fair share of "hangers on", which has made it difficult to remain profitable. Our standards end up so high, we never get the cost benefit ratio right.
At the middle of the 18th century Britons knew how to exploit industry for capital gain. Investment in european industry from a capitalist, rather than an industrialist perspective, is very risky. At the moment it's easier for the banks to make good consistent profits. It is central to the economic outlook for the country. In the end we know that our far eastern competitors will succed us because they are those that make what we buy.
An industrialist is more interested in what he can achieve than what he can earn. This is both virtuous and vicious. The same is true for those who are more interested in what they can earn than what they can achieve. The former to my mind is hubristic, but without avarice, the latter avaricious, but without hubris. In and of themselves both are harmless, but the transition of a society between, damages all.
We reached our technical peak during the second world war, and although there have been significant developments, whatever the computer achieves it will not eclipse the nuclear weapon. It defines the peak. European engineering capacity is in decline, and if I had understood this the way I do now, I would never have chosen to be an engineer. It's not a rational choice.
I'm alsorts of engineer me. My degree was electronics, primarily digital systems. I guess that makes me a digital systems engineer. The last five or six years, is the problem period for me. Much of my work has been defence related, but the best of it generally surrounds high speed, high bandwidth radar processing.
I'm not sure I want to post too much about myself on a public forum, so I'll refrain if I may.
It's probably summed up as follows; I worked for a while the MOD in London, for a guy that originally came from the Air Ministry (late fifties), and his claim to fame was that he never actually worked on a programme that wasn't cancelled. I'm beginning to know how he feels.
My problem is not specifically that I can't get work, it's that I can't get work without having to loose my place on the housing ladder. Speculatively, that could be good or bad, but I currently think that it might be bad. That said, I don't have a choice anymore because I am now only able to survive by the goodwill of my folks, and I'm not happy about that, whereas I don't mind about the state handouts.
Two things stand out for me in all of this.
Firstly, it seems to me that there is a very regional aspect to the whole thing. If I said that I think that the Labour heartlands have had it far easier than elsewhere, I don't think I'd be wrong. Though I would never vote Labour, I wasn't happy when Maggie closed the mines. I still think we should be burning that coal (and investing in the technology to make it clean).
I often get a sense that those who remember the mine closures closely, aren't unhappy with the current situation south of London. Perhaps what they forget is that the people who are being targetted by Labour are working conservatives in Da Saaf (you might call us Chavs), and not those who wanted the mine closures. I also get a sense that New Labour is equally poor when it comes to pacifying racial tensions nationally.
You guessed it, I think I'm going to end up moving North, until about five years after the conservatives get back in, and I'll re asses.
Secondly I think that engineering is a bad bet given the UK direction into service industries. Legal, financial and business degrees must surely be a better bet. There are huge profits to be made from engineering, but these industries have attracted their fair share of "hangers on", which has made it difficult to remain profitable. Our standards end up so high, we never get the cost benefit ratio right.
At the middle of the 18th century Britons knew how to exploit industry for capital gain. Investment in european industry from a capitalist, rather than an industrialist perspective, is very risky. At the moment it's easier for the banks to make good consistent profits. It is central to the economic outlook for the country. In the end we know that our far eastern competitors will succed us because they are those that make what we buy.
An industrialist is more interested in what he can achieve than what he can earn. This is both virtuous and vicious. The same is true for those who are more interested in what they can earn than what they can achieve. The former to my mind is hubristic, but without avarice, the latter avaricious, but without hubris. In and of themselves both are harmless, but the transition of a society between, damages all.
We reached our technical peak during the second world war, and although there have been significant developments, whatever the computer achieves it will not eclipse the nuclear weapon. It defines the peak. European engineering capacity is in decline, and if I had understood this the way I do now, I would never have chosen to be an engineer. It's not a rational choice.
Edited by dilbert on Friday 19th January 03:02
I am VERY pleased with the opportunities and prospects in Engineering. Yes, the financial and legal industries do *seem* to pay more but considering I have a permanent job and also do contracting I couldn’t possible complain that there isn’t enough work around, and money is defiantly good
IMO the problem with Engineering is that unless you own your own development or product house, there isn’t a huge amount of money in the technical aspect. A friend who works hard contracting is taking home 75k and I haven’t heard of anyone being on more for a technical job. Moving into management and the aforementioned career directions would yield more. The important aspect of Engineering, it is what you know and also who you know. I know many people that don’t require anything like the knowledge of your average Engineer to be successful, and then there’s keeping up with new methods and technologies. Oh and also the broad level knowledge around what an Engineer specialises in – it’s by no means easy money.
I share your concern about the future of Engineering in this country. Maybe I’m being paranoid but I think because of the lack of Engineering representation in the powers-that-be causes a lack of direction in terms of its importance – especially where developing new technologies are concerned. They seem to be putting all there eggs in one (financial) basket and are setting themselves (and us) up for a big fall.
BTW: I share you opinion on choice of motor - When I’ve worn my current daily hack into the ground I will probably go down the same route
I also prefer the north but I stay in the south because of the abundance of jobs. scoobiewrx said:
Dilbert, I am always looking for good quallity engineers. I run an electronics recruitment consultancy. Email me or take a look at my profile and my info is there. Cheers, Francis.
I'll make a note of that if you dont mind
Edited to add: OK, The moneys shite! I take it all back...
www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=345767&f=141&h=0
Edited by polus on Saturday 20th January 21:46
I dunno where you work, but it doesn't sound like where I am!!!!
As for not knowing anybody, I guess that's another of the negative attributes that I'll have to accept. There are plenty of others that people seem very keen to level at me, and I've taken them all with grace.
The thing that keeps me going really is the simple fact that I've seen others fail around me when presented with simpler problems than those I've solved with relative ease. What I know is that these people have had the credentials, the money, the background. None of these things I have.
The thing about the government is interesting. Whilst I care about engineering, there isn't much point in having engineers working within the government, if their purpose there is irrelevant. You see, the reason they have any engineers at all is not because they want to do engineering, it's because someone thinks it'd be a good idea to have them, because they always have had.
There's not much point trying to fight the public schoolies for a right to exist, when at the end of the day they are being duped into thinking they have power. One must fight for the prize, not because of a belief in fighting, and the illusion of a prize. It may also be the case that my fight isn't yet over.
Now I know the sides, I know which side I'm on. I can't fight it alone. I'm not going to seek a fight if it's not here, but if it comes this way, I know who I'll support.
As for the car, I don't know what I'm going to ask, but it's probably going this year. It's certainly servicable, so if you want an expensive hack it's all yours.
As for Mr. ScoobieWRX. Thanks, I'll give you a call.
Edited by dilbert on Sunday 21st January 02:09
dilbert said:
I dunno where you work, but it doesn't sound like where I am!!!!
I presume due to your previous comment that the housing market is stopping you being able to move to find a job - the housing market situation in this country is terrible. I’m currently trying to reach/jump on the bottom, broken rung of the ladder.
dilbert said:
The thing about the government is interesting. Whilst I care about engineering, there isn't much point in having engineers working within the government, if their purpose there is irrelevant.
True. I guess I’m looking on this with some naivety - just makes me wonder what these IET people are doing all day - they seem to like paper shuffling and self praise...
dilbert said:
There's not much point trying to fight the public schoolies for a right to exist, when at the end of the day they are being duped into thinking they have power.
Im not bothered about status. I became and Enigneer becuase its a subject that I find interesting and I enjoy solving problems (although sometimes desk items still gets flung across the room
). dilbert said:
As for the car, I don't know what I'm going to ask, but it's probably going this year. It's certainly servicable, so if you want an expensive hack it's all yours.
As above; trying to afford a house. One thing at a time
Anyway I was really getting at the fact that investing lots of money in new euroboxes that depreciate so much is not something I want to do again. Ayway, good luck with the job hunt.
BTW: just out of interest what would you consider a decent wage for a professional Engineer?
Edited by polus on Sunday 21st January 02:38
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