Age discrimination
Discussion
I have recently been applying for quite a number of roles, as I am uncertain about the longevity of my current position.
For most of the roles I have the qualifications and experience and I know I have additional experience that would be very useful (without going into details), yet I am not even getting to first interview stage.
I am wondering whether it is my age, as I am in my late fifties. Anyone else experienced the same?
I might be forced into early retirement, which is a double edged sword. Although we can afford it I would rather continue to work until my daughter has finished at university and got a job.
For most of the roles I have the qualifications and experience and I know I have additional experience that would be very useful (without going into details), yet I am not even getting to first interview stage.
I am wondering whether it is my age, as I am in my late fifties. Anyone else experienced the same?
I might be forced into early retirement, which is a double edged sword. Although we can afford it I would rather continue to work until my daughter has finished at university and got a job.
Skeptisk said:
I am wondering whether it is my age, as I am in my late fifties. Anyone else experienced the same?
TotallyOnce I got to mid 50s I became almost invisible.
I dropped the early jobs off my CV, but 'O' and 'A' levels give it away.
In the end I got a job with the local council who seem to be less aegist. It was also a step down from my previous career, but within two years I became head of a small department and earning more than in private industry.
I is annoying as in my 30s as a sales manager, I would often employ more mature staff over younger ones as the had better life experience and wouldn't jump ship.
I fear I'm in exactly this position. Got to a couple of last rounds recently but then heard almost nothing and didn't proceed. Feel like they're putting me up against others as the "experienced" guy. Otherwise struggling to even get first interviews. The other side is that after a long and varied career in operations I'm no longer an expert in anything
As suggested, trim down the CV. I've had to recruit at the lower levels of accountancy, unless it's a very junior role and you're looking at candidates who are only just entering the workplace, school/college results are pretty much irrelevant. For more senior roles, you can reference any degree/professional qualifications but you don't have to put a date on it. Likewise just cover the last 10 years on the CV, anything earlier but still relevant to the role you're applying for could be referenced but again without a timescale.
It's a tricky one, I have sympathy as I can imagine ending up in a similar situation in future. Currently mid-forties, so far all my managers have been older than me, but suspect my next one won't be. There does tend to be a bias towards younger people, I think partly because accountancy is quite a popular field with a lot of graduates entering the market. I've known some people to recruit younger, I suspect because they worry someone more experienced will show them up!
OP, what sort of roles are you going for? I suspect age can be a bigger barrier for more corporate roles, perhaps more opportunity with SME type businesses, especially those at the smaller end of the scale, who are looking for the experience?
It's a tricky one, I have sympathy as I can imagine ending up in a similar situation in future. Currently mid-forties, so far all my managers have been older than me, but suspect my next one won't be. There does tend to be a bias towards younger people, I think partly because accountancy is quite a popular field with a lot of graduates entering the market. I've known some people to recruit younger, I suspect because they worry someone more experienced will show them up!
OP, what sort of roles are you going for? I suspect age can be a bigger barrier for more corporate roles, perhaps more opportunity with SME type businesses, especially those at the smaller end of the scale, who are looking for the experience?
Age discrimination is definitely a thing IMO and is short sighted of employers.
A business I was close to 2 years ago went into administration. Of the team I worked with there were about 70 people. All of those under 45 got new jobs pretty quickly, all of those over 50 are either still out of work or doing short term interim and looking for permanent work.
It strikes me as odd that employers are passing up experience for youth. The experienced people could help the younger ones develop faster, generally have more time as families have fled the nest and have seen most of the problem issues before and know what works and what doesn't.
I am 59. I have way more time for work than I did when I was 40 with two young kids at home, I don't have to do school runs, take time off because one has flu, take time off for parents evening now daytime in may schools). I am ill myself less often because i don't have kids bringing disease home from school. I am better rested and equally motivated. I arrive at work at 7.30am (after a 60 min drive) and leave at 5pm. The younger folks here arrive at 8.30-9.00 and leave at 5.00 or in some cases 3pm because "child care"
I get managers in their 30's panicking because we are in a recession (in my sector) not knowing what to do. This is my 3rd recession, I know how to shape a business to adapt and survive.
I am no slower at assimilating complex problems and presenting coherent responses.
I am an NED for 2 large businesses, its interesting that you pretty ,much can't land an NED role in your 40's but can as you get older because your experience is valued, but for full time employment its not. I also get a lot of requests to be a voluntary NED (no remuneration, they want my experience but not to pay for it!)
Some people say its because older people demand a higher salary, I disagree, if I apply for a job at say £120k (made up figures) I get told that was discounted because I previously earned £180k. Whereas I apply for jobs I am happy to do for the salary offered.
I am also an employer, and i am careful not to bring age into it. I look at skills, experience, interpersonal skills, communication and passion.
A business I was close to 2 years ago went into administration. Of the team I worked with there were about 70 people. All of those under 45 got new jobs pretty quickly, all of those over 50 are either still out of work or doing short term interim and looking for permanent work.
It strikes me as odd that employers are passing up experience for youth. The experienced people could help the younger ones develop faster, generally have more time as families have fled the nest and have seen most of the problem issues before and know what works and what doesn't.
I am 59. I have way more time for work than I did when I was 40 with two young kids at home, I don't have to do school runs, take time off because one has flu, take time off for parents evening now daytime in may schools). I am ill myself less often because i don't have kids bringing disease home from school. I am better rested and equally motivated. I arrive at work at 7.30am (after a 60 min drive) and leave at 5pm. The younger folks here arrive at 8.30-9.00 and leave at 5.00 or in some cases 3pm because "child care"
I get managers in their 30's panicking because we are in a recession (in my sector) not knowing what to do. This is my 3rd recession, I know how to shape a business to adapt and survive.
I am no slower at assimilating complex problems and presenting coherent responses.
I am an NED for 2 large businesses, its interesting that you pretty ,much can't land an NED role in your 40's but can as you get older because your experience is valued, but for full time employment its not. I also get a lot of requests to be a voluntary NED (no remuneration, they want my experience but not to pay for it!)
Some people say its because older people demand a higher salary, I disagree, if I apply for a job at say £120k (made up figures) I get told that was discounted because I previously earned £180k. Whereas I apply for jobs I am happy to do for the salary offered.
I am also an employer, and i am careful not to bring age into it. I look at skills, experience, interpersonal skills, communication and passion.
blueg33 said:
Age discrimination is definitely a thing IMO and is short sighted of employers.
A business I was close to 2 years ago went into administration. Of the team I worked with there were about 70 people. All of those under 45 got new jobs pretty quickly, all of those over 50 are either still out of work or doing short term interim and looking for permanent work.
It strikes me as odd that employers are passing up experience for youth. The experienced people could help the younger ones develop faster, generally have more time as families have fled the nest and have seen most of the problem issues before and know what works and what doesn't.
I am 59. I have way more time for work than I did when I was 40 with two young kids at home, I don't have to do school runs, take time off because one has flu, take time off for parents evening now daytime in may schools). I am ill myself less often because i don't have kids bringing disease home from school. I am better rested and equally motivated. I arrive at work at 7.30am (after a 60 min drive) and leave at 5pm. The younger folks here arrive at 8.30-9.00 and leave at 5.00 or in some cases 3pm because "child care"
I get managers in their 30's panicking because we are in a recession (in my sector) not knowing what to do. This is my 3rd recession, I know how to shape a business to adapt and survive.
I am no slower at assimilating complex problems and presenting coherent responses.
I am an NED for 2 large businesses, its interesting that you pretty ,much can't land an NED role in your 40's but can as you get older because your experience is valued, but for full time employment its not. I also get a lot of requests to be a voluntary NED (no remuneration, they want my experience but not to pay for it!)
Some people say its because older people demand a higher salary, I disagree, if I apply for a job at say £120k (made up figures) I get told that was discounted because I previously earned £180k. Whereas I apply for jobs I am happy to do for the salary offered.
I am also an employer, and i am careful not to bring age into it. I look at skills, experience, interpersonal skills, communication and passion.
I agree. You would think that more experience and not having school age children would be positives. A business I was close to 2 years ago went into administration. Of the team I worked with there were about 70 people. All of those under 45 got new jobs pretty quickly, all of those over 50 are either still out of work or doing short term interim and looking for permanent work.
It strikes me as odd that employers are passing up experience for youth. The experienced people could help the younger ones develop faster, generally have more time as families have fled the nest and have seen most of the problem issues before and know what works and what doesn't.
I am 59. I have way more time for work than I did when I was 40 with two young kids at home, I don't have to do school runs, take time off because one has flu, take time off for parents evening now daytime in may schools). I am ill myself less often because i don't have kids bringing disease home from school. I am better rested and equally motivated. I arrive at work at 7.30am (after a 60 min drive) and leave at 5pm. The younger folks here arrive at 8.30-9.00 and leave at 5.00 or in some cases 3pm because "child care"
I get managers in their 30's panicking because we are in a recession (in my sector) not knowing what to do. This is my 3rd recession, I know how to shape a business to adapt and survive.
I am no slower at assimilating complex problems and presenting coherent responses.
I am an NED for 2 large businesses, its interesting that you pretty ,much can't land an NED role in your 40's but can as you get older because your experience is valued, but for full time employment its not. I also get a lot of requests to be a voluntary NED (no remuneration, they want my experience but not to pay for it!)
Some people say its because older people demand a higher salary, I disagree, if I apply for a job at say £120k (made up figures) I get told that was discounted because I previously earned £180k. Whereas I apply for jobs I am happy to do for the salary offered.
I am also an employer, and i am careful not to bring age into it. I look at skills, experience, interpersonal skills, communication and passion.
Regarding remuneration perhaps pensions make a difference as don’t employer contributions normally increase with age?
Maybe employers are thinking that older people are close to retirement so don’t have many years left. However younger people move around more these days and I am not sure what the average time spent at each company is these days (or in each role), so maybe that is a red herring.
I’ve looked at trimming my CV but it isn’t straightforward and would likely raise more questions (I’ve moved countries a few times which probably doesn’t help).
I am nearly 50, and although can’t categorically say I have been rejected due to age, it is a lot more difficult the older you are. Some things I heard are companies want younger people who are cheaper, who are easier to mould into the companies culture. They may have younger teams and don’t think an older person will fit in. Other arguments are why do we need years of experience which can be expensive, for data entry roles? I think there is the perception now, that as the job market has been flat for two years, that experienced people are trying any jobs just to get their foot in the door, and will subsequently get bored and move on. I do wonder if some mid level hiring managers may not be comfortable employing older candidates with decades more experience then them too. Most of the roles I have seen this year were Entry Level 2-3 years experience.
As a I said though, the jobs market since 2022 has been pretty much flat as companies waited for the UK election and now the budget. It is pretty tough times out there at the moment, particularly if you are in the older/experienced bracket.
As a I said though, the jobs market since 2022 has been pretty much flat as companies waited for the UK election and now the budget. It is pretty tough times out there at the moment, particularly if you are in the older/experienced bracket.
Skeptisk said:
I agree. You would think that more experience and not having school age children would be positives.
Regarding remuneration perhaps pensions make a difference as don’t employer contributions normally increase with age?
Maybe employers are thinking that older people are close to retirement so don’t have many years left. However younger people move around more these days and I am not sure what the average time spent at each company is these days (or in each role), so maybe that is a red herring.
I’ve looked at trimming my CV but it isn’t straightforward and would likely raise more questions (I’ve moved countries a few times which probably doesn’t help).
Not under the statutes. Provided the minimum amount is met the employer (and employee) are free to change the amounts. Some companies may increase their percentage as you get older, but it is the company choice.Regarding remuneration perhaps pensions make a difference as don’t employer contributions normally increase with age?
Maybe employers are thinking that older people are close to retirement so don’t have many years left. However younger people move around more these days and I am not sure what the average time spent at each company is these days (or in each role), so maybe that is a red herring.
I’ve looked at trimming my CV but it isn’t straightforward and would likely raise more questions (I’ve moved countries a few times which probably doesn’t help).
Also it is important to note that the contributory factors when calculating the percentages are not your total salary unless the company chooses this way. The statutory pension requirement ignores the first £6,240 and anything over £50,270. A standard minimum pension contribution for lower paid staff will not give a liveable pension.
Slow.Patrol said:
Totally
Once I got to mid 50s I became almost invisible.
I dropped the early jobs off my CV, but 'O' and 'A' levels give it away.
In the end I got a job with the local council who seem to be less aegist. It was also a step down from my previous career, but within two years I became head of a small department and earning more than in private industry.
I is annoying as in my 30s as a sales manager, I would often employ more mature staff over younger ones as the had better life experience and wouldn't jump ship.
On the one hand, I agree that older candidates are often more desirable (for certain roles) for the reasons you state. But on the other hand, it's kind of ageist to favour them over younger people without giving them at least an interview.Once I got to mid 50s I became almost invisible.
I dropped the early jobs off my CV, but 'O' and 'A' levels give it away.
In the end I got a job with the local council who seem to be less aegist. It was also a step down from my previous career, but within two years I became head of a small department and earning more than in private industry.
I is annoying as in my 30s as a sales manager, I would often employ more mature staff over younger ones as the had better life experience and wouldn't jump ship.
xx99xx said:
On the one hand, I agree that older candidates are often more desirable (for certain roles) for the reasons you state. But on the other hand, it's kind of ageist to favour them over younger people without giving them at least an interview.
That is incorrect. It is 'ageist' to factor in the age of any candidate, young or old, as a primary indicator of suitability for a role unless there exists practical and legal reason to do so.
Something also often forgotten is that ageism is illegal. It's covered under the Equalities Act.
When I set up my business, I was 53 (now 57) but I was also applying for jobs as a plan B had the business not panned out. One job in particular I was exceptionally well suited to. The job description read almost like my CV and certainly deserving of an interview. That was never offered but unusually had some feedback which stated that they had selected candidates whose experiences more closely matched those stated.
My business did pan out and in an ironic turn of events, the company I had applied to became a client. The person I dealt with there was the person who got the job that I had applied for. A nice enough woman in her late 20s/early 30s but completely unsuited to the role and certainly lacking the experience I would have brought the organisation. I ended up doing a lot of the work that she should have been doing but receiving fees many times more than the salary I would have been paid to do the same work as an employee.
Had they not been such a good client, I may have been inclined to call them on it. Either way, it demonstrates that ageism is alive and well.
I’m looking for a job for the first time past 50 and I suspect there’s some applications going in the bin based on an estimated age.
As others have said, trim past career history and education so you could be younger and see if it makes a difference.
Of course when you do get to an interview it’ll probably be obvious, but by that point you’ve got the opportunity to impress.
As others have said, trim past career history and education so you could be younger and see if it makes a difference.
Of course when you do get to an interview it’ll probably be obvious, but by that point you’ve got the opportunity to impress.
StevieBee said:
That is incorrect.
It is 'ageist' to factor in the age of any candidate, young or old, as a primary indicator of suitability for a role unless there exists practical and legal reason to do so.
Something also often forgotten is that ageism is illegal. It's covered under the Equalities Act.
When I set up my business, I was 53 (now 57) but I was also applying for jobs as a plan B had the business not panned out. One job in particular I was exceptionally well suited to. The job description read almost like my CV and certainly deserving of an interview. That was never offered but unusually had some feedback which stated that they had selected candidates whose experiences more closely matched those stated.
My business did pan out and in an ironic turn of events, the company I had applied to became a client. The person I dealt with there was the person who got the job that I had applied for. A nice enough woman in her late 20s/early 30s but completely unsuited to the role and certainly lacking the experience I would have brought the organisation. I ended up doing a lot of the work that she should have been doing but receiving fees many times more than the salary I would have been paid to do the same work as an employee.
Had they not been such a good client, I may have been inclined to call them on it. Either way, it demonstrates that ageism is alive and well.
That's quite the story and goes to show that despite how good you are, we will never find out what's going on in the mind of the hirer. In most cases, I viewed feedback in the same way as feedback on selling your house, they either like it or not. No point in agonising over something you can't change or give credibility to something that is most likely a throw away comment on their behalf but has devastating effect on those long term job hunting. It is 'ageist' to factor in the age of any candidate, young or old, as a primary indicator of suitability for a role unless there exists practical and legal reason to do so.
Something also often forgotten is that ageism is illegal. It's covered under the Equalities Act.
When I set up my business, I was 53 (now 57) but I was also applying for jobs as a plan B had the business not panned out. One job in particular I was exceptionally well suited to. The job description read almost like my CV and certainly deserving of an interview. That was never offered but unusually had some feedback which stated that they had selected candidates whose experiences more closely matched those stated.
My business did pan out and in an ironic turn of events, the company I had applied to became a client. The person I dealt with there was the person who got the job that I had applied for. A nice enough woman in her late 20s/early 30s but completely unsuited to the role and certainly lacking the experience I would have brought the organisation. I ended up doing a lot of the work that she should have been doing but receiving fees many times more than the salary I would have been paid to do the same work as an employee.
Had they not been such a good client, I may have been inclined to call them on it. Either way, it demonstrates that ageism is alive and well.
Definitely de age your CV as much as possible. Remove O levels etc, dates from school/University. Change things like, 25 years experience to significant experience.
Someone will be able to work it out but most don't look that closely.
The other thing I would say is that it's a really challenging job market currently. Different sectors see demand at different times but I work in a sector that's historical always had a shortage of people, I'm currently recruiting a lot of roles and I've had 1000s, yes 1000s of applications. Some people were made redundant and have been out of work for many months.
Keep plugging away .
Someone will be able to work it out but most don't look that closely.
The other thing I would say is that it's a really challenging job market currently. Different sectors see demand at different times but I work in a sector that's historical always had a shortage of people, I'm currently recruiting a lot of roles and I've had 1000s, yes 1000s of applications. Some people were made redundant and have been out of work for many months.
Keep plugging away .
Skeptisk said:
Maybe employers are thinking that older people are close to retirement so don’t have many years left.
Chris Peacock said:
Skeptisk said:
Maybe employers are thinking that older people are close to retirement so don’t have many years left.
I think there's many factors at play.
There's the perception of a lack of current thinking amongst older people and physical ability (also largely perceptional).
There is also this thing where higher levels of experience and skill is seen as a threat to many a younger manager. The last thing they want is an older worker showing up their deficiencies so they avoid the threat.
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