Men don't won't to work anymore
Discussion
Was reading an article, since lockdown a lot of men have gone onto benefits. I struggled in lockdown due to the government rules imposed to save me yet actually caused me harm, mentally.
Why should you work, if workplaces are so toxic and billion pound companies want everything out of you for minimum wage?
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/other/why-british-...
Why should you work, if workplaces are so toxic and billion pound companies want everything out of you for minimum wage?
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/other/why-british-...
I have had breaks from work in the last couple of years as have a few mates/relatives
Not claiming benefits though and not due to any perceived changes in the workplace, purely down to being able to afford to and different priorities as we get older. I’m back at work now but would show up as ‘reduced hours’ but that’s a function of the new job being 37 p/w when the old one was 40. The actual number of hours I work is probably the same though, it’s not a clock in/clock out type of industry
I suspect that’s the truth for many.
Not claiming benefits though and not due to any perceived changes in the workplace, purely down to being able to afford to and different priorities as we get older. I’m back at work now but would show up as ‘reduced hours’ but that’s a function of the new job being 37 p/w when the old one was 40. The actual number of hours I work is probably the same though, it’s not a clock in/clock out type of industry
I suspect that’s the truth for many.
I was discussing this very thing with one of our contractors over the weekend. He cannot hire men. He is working a contract for a famer at the moment, who can't hire people to drive his machines, which are sitting unused.
Our business is suffering with long-standing contractors either giving up or wanting to work only very specific hours and certainly not weekends. Some are retiring and not being replaced by young blood.
This has all happened since COVID and it gives the impression of widespread apathy. My guess is that the drivers are:
1. Some people enjoying the time they had off during COVID and not now wanting to work.
2. Other people enjoying the time they had off over COVID and choosing a different work / life balance. They'll work only enough to live.
3. The cost of living. People can't afford stuff so, rather than work harder for what they used to have, they have settled for less but are prepared to work less for it.
4. The Eastern Europeans, who would happily have worked, have gone home.
5. There seems to be a sense of hopelessness among some people, probably due to a combination of the above factors.
The current employment climate has been a major driver in my reducing the size of our businesses. We don't have the margins to pay more than we do and, even paying what we do, the profitability of the businesses has reduced markedly, due to inflation that we are unable to pass onto customers.
I am not sure what the solution is.
Our business is suffering with long-standing contractors either giving up or wanting to work only very specific hours and certainly not weekends. Some are retiring and not being replaced by young blood.
This has all happened since COVID and it gives the impression of widespread apathy. My guess is that the drivers are:
1. Some people enjoying the time they had off during COVID and not now wanting to work.
2. Other people enjoying the time they had off over COVID and choosing a different work / life balance. They'll work only enough to live.
3. The cost of living. People can't afford stuff so, rather than work harder for what they used to have, they have settled for less but are prepared to work less for it.
4. The Eastern Europeans, who would happily have worked, have gone home.
5. There seems to be a sense of hopelessness among some people, probably due to a combination of the above factors.
The current employment climate has been a major driver in my reducing the size of our businesses. We don't have the margins to pay more than we do and, even paying what we do, the profitability of the businesses has reduced markedly, due to inflation that we are unable to pass onto customers.
I am not sure what the solution is.
I guess the problem is why would you go to work? If wages aren't enough for working people to have a relatively decent quality of life, buy a home and a half decent car, why bother? You can sit on the couch all day playing on the playstation, collect universal credit and go to the pub whenever you want. Probably going to get worse as taxes, fuel duty etc are set to rise.
54% of individuals are net recipients in 2022 taking more in benefits than they paid in taxes, more than half! Ok so some of those numbers are pensioners, but the figures show 46% of non-retired people are net-recipients. I do feel for a lot of people that work bloody hard but still can't afford to buy a house but have boomers sneer at them with the old 'stop buying avocados and iPhones and you'll get a house '
54% of individuals are net recipients in 2022 taking more in benefits than they paid in taxes, more than half! Ok so some of those numbers are pensioners, but the figures show 46% of non-retired people are net-recipients. I do feel for a lot of people that work bloody hard but still can't afford to buy a house but have boomers sneer at them with the old 'stop buying avocados and iPhones and you'll get a house '
I think there has been a massive uptick in apathy since Covid. I work in tech sales and it feels like the people who work on the client side have a total lack of interest in changing or improving anything. People feel more disengaged from their companies and their mission than they did before.
People generally do want to work to 'get on', earn more, have nicer things etc. I think that balance has been broken to the point where the nicer things from getting on is running ahead of people's ability to earn more to achieve it without flogging themselves to death in some industries. Its not at all surprising that some, well a lot by the sound of if, have come to the conclusion that there's much more satisfaction to be had from working a lot less and not being bothered chasing the nicer things. I.e. being more content in life with non-financial / economic metrics like time, family etc. That becomes a problem when the measure of a country's success and progress is entirely vested in economic and financial metrics.
There are some that will never understand people who aren't ambitious for more money, a bigger house, a newer car, the latest toys etc. But there do seem to be a lot who've realised that money and things aren't the route to happiness.
Of course, companies could pay more, but I'm not sure even that would work for some jobs as the wage bump needed would be huge to tempt people back. Where these roles were previously filled by people coming from other countries, the collective UK wisdom was that we don't want that.
The solution is very complicated, but I think it has a lot to do with shifting our perspective on vocational subjects in education so the aren't sneered upon by the white collar set, getting over ourselves that perhaps we do need freedom of movement of people to fill these roles and somehow smashing the cost of housing issue - in my view a massive root cause. Three things that the university educated decision makers, Politicians and anyone who has a mortgage now dependent on house price inflation would be absolutely against.
There are some that will never understand people who aren't ambitious for more money, a bigger house, a newer car, the latest toys etc. But there do seem to be a lot who've realised that money and things aren't the route to happiness.
Of course, companies could pay more, but I'm not sure even that would work for some jobs as the wage bump needed would be huge to tempt people back. Where these roles were previously filled by people coming from other countries, the collective UK wisdom was that we don't want that.
The solution is very complicated, but I think it has a lot to do with shifting our perspective on vocational subjects in education so the aren't sneered upon by the white collar set, getting over ourselves that perhaps we do need freedom of movement of people to fill these roles and somehow smashing the cost of housing issue - in my view a massive root cause. Three things that the university educated decision makers, Politicians and anyone who has a mortgage now dependent on house price inflation would be absolutely against.
Edited by biggles330d on Monday 21st October 08:39
The issue is what are you improving, what does it actually do. Does it benefit the person working themselves towards that tiny patch at the end of their life where they spend <10 usable years to spend their pension?
Why slog decades, long hours for "the team"?
Years ago, long before Covid I was speaking to a competitor in a bar who was trying to poach me.
They worked 12+ hours a day every day, no one left the office first. No one took a meaningful lunch and days away/team building days were unspokingly mandatory. Where's the joy?
I worked 8-4, could work from home whenever I wanted and could disappear off to lunch without permission. I self managed but if I moved there would be a team meeting at the start and end of day to check progress and results.
There's this mantra - you need to achieve career in your life. Yet in reality it's a hidden message 'achieve profit for your employer through your sweat'.
Why not work at your pace, enjoy the years where you have the best health? Not everyone can be a self made millionaire..
Why slog decades, long hours for "the team"?
Years ago, long before Covid I was speaking to a competitor in a bar who was trying to poach me.
They worked 12+ hours a day every day, no one left the office first. No one took a meaningful lunch and days away/team building days were unspokingly mandatory. Where's the joy?
I worked 8-4, could work from home whenever I wanted and could disappear off to lunch without permission. I self managed but if I moved there would be a team meeting at the start and end of day to check progress and results.
There's this mantra - you need to achieve career in your life. Yet in reality it's a hidden message 'achieve profit for your employer through your sweat'.
Why not work at your pace, enjoy the years where you have the best health? Not everyone can be a self made millionaire..
Here is why!
For every age group:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pW8PI7PRYzg
For the Gen Z age group
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fYzAWA6VZQw
For every age group:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pW8PI7PRYzg
For the Gen Z age group
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fYzAWA6VZQw
I'm in this group and have been for a good few months now. I don't collect any benefits but my income from other sources/savings interest etc is more than I spend. I left my last job as I didn't want to fall out with my employer (who is a friend) about the lack of organisation in the workplace making the job far more physically difficult than it had to be.
I've been looking at jobs again for a while (I'd like to work part time) but the adverts all seem to rule out anyone who isn't currently doing that exact role. I'm massively overqualified for the jobs I'm interested in but the adverts show that employers (or at least recruitment agents) are incredibly blinkered.
I'm left feeling a bit lost about what to do.
I've been looking at jobs again for a while (I'd like to work part time) but the adverts all seem to rule out anyone who isn't currently doing that exact role. I'm massively overqualified for the jobs I'm interested in but the adverts show that employers (or at least recruitment agents) are incredibly blinkered.
I'm left feeling a bit lost about what to do.
Slow.Patrol said:
When a person can get more than minimum wage on benefits, then where is the incentive to work?
Because on benefits, you can't get promoted, or ever improve your lot. With a minimum wage job, you can. Also, a lot of people I know with really good jobs found out about them thru their old crappy job. Which is why I always say to youngsters, "while you're waiting for your dream job, get a job". I worked through Covid and am still in the same job now. No pay rise in 5 years but you know what ...
I like going in as it's my social life. I'm the eldest by at least 20 years so it's either retire and hang around with other 60/70 year olds or turn up at the office and have a laugh with the lads or get to hang out with women that wouldn't look twice at me in the real world
I'd go bonkers if I didn't have work to go to and I'm glad that I was commuting and seeing different people during the pandemic.
My ex wife and both my sons are on benefits, rarely get out of bed and the apathy in that house is so awful that I just can't visit.
How can anyone live like that? No wonder that they are all depressed.
Work gives structure to your day. You have to get up, make breakfast, travel etc
It makes your home a place of sanctuary not a prison cell.
Granted I know a few people that don't work but have money and their diaries are full 7 days a week from early to late.
Trying to find a slot to in order to meet up is almost harder than getting a GP appointment.
I like going in as it's my social life. I'm the eldest by at least 20 years so it's either retire and hang around with other 60/70 year olds or turn up at the office and have a laugh with the lads or get to hang out with women that wouldn't look twice at me in the real world
I'd go bonkers if I didn't have work to go to and I'm glad that I was commuting and seeing different people during the pandemic.
My ex wife and both my sons are on benefits, rarely get out of bed and the apathy in that house is so awful that I just can't visit.
How can anyone live like that? No wonder that they are all depressed.
Work gives structure to your day. You have to get up, make breakfast, travel etc
It makes your home a place of sanctuary not a prison cell.
Granted I know a few people that don't work but have money and their diaries are full 7 days a week from early to late.
Trying to find a slot to in order to meet up is almost harder than getting a GP appointment.
For me it's about mobility. If you go on benefits you are stuck in that physical location forever, basically.
What happens if that location turns to s
t around you, or your mental outlook changes requiring the physical to follow?
I remember my economics lecturer teaching me that, among many things the UK no longer has, a healthy economy doesn't just have a workforce, but it has a MOBILE workforce willing to go where the work is..
What happens if that location turns to s
t around you, or your mental outlook changes requiring the physical to follow? I remember my economics lecturer teaching me that, among many things the UK no longer has, a healthy economy doesn't just have a workforce, but it has a MOBILE workforce willing to go where the work is..
Some statistics on NEETS
https://www.ons.gov.uk/employmentandlabourmarket/p...
Nearly 900,000 16-24 year olds, not working. Although I haven't found the figures for those claiming benefits
When I left school in the 1970s, I didn't qualify for any benefits as I lived at home with my parents. I went out and got a job in a pub which I kept for two years during college.
A couple of decades later, I remember being surprised that the young lad who lived nextdoor was getting job seekers (?) having just left school.
Peer pressure is a good way to get the young out into work.
https://www.ons.gov.uk/employmentandlabourmarket/p...
Nearly 900,000 16-24 year olds, not working. Although I haven't found the figures for those claiming benefits
When I left school in the 1970s, I didn't qualify for any benefits as I lived at home with my parents. I went out and got a job in a pub which I kept for two years during college.
A couple of decades later, I remember being surprised that the young lad who lived nextdoor was getting job seekers (?) having just left school.
Peer pressure is a good way to get the young out into work.
I'm in the 'not working anymore' group (albeit I'm not collecting benefits) and, like many others, Covid was a turning point. I was lucky enough to be able to WFH during that period which had the benefit (in our case) of being together 24/7, as I joked at the time it was a good preview of full retirement! I was in the unfortunate position of working for a crap company under a poor manager which made the choice of telling them to poke it quite an easy one - I will admit that were it a job I really liked my reaction c/would have been different.
The other thing that should be mentioned at this point is that being 'the wrong side of 50' as has an effect on people's ability to work - that's not so much their physical ability, rather their employability. The fact is that a LOT of employers won't give 'oldies' the time of day WRT to job opportunities so for them to now complain about people retiring too early is a little rich!
The fact is that you're a long time no longer here and you don't know how long you'll be in good health so if you can afford to do so enjoy life!
With all of the above having been said however... I'll freely admit that were I not with Mrs DG things would be different. I'm normally quite happy with my own company and tend not to need loads of company - but someone to share life with is, IMO, important even if only from a mental health perspective.
The other thing that should be mentioned at this point is that being 'the wrong side of 50' as has an effect on people's ability to work - that's not so much their physical ability, rather their employability. The fact is that a LOT of employers won't give 'oldies' the time of day WRT to job opportunities so for them to now complain about people retiring too early is a little rich!
The fact is that you're a long time no longer here and you don't know how long you'll be in good health so if you can afford to do so enjoy life!
With all of the above having been said however... I'll freely admit that were I not with Mrs DG things would be different. I'm normally quite happy with my own company and tend not to need loads of company - but someone to share life with is, IMO, important even if only from a mental health perspective.
Hugo Stiglitz v2 said:
I'll freely admit that if hard physical graft for poor pay where the employer wanted his pound of flesh daily versus similar income for effectively early retirement? No brainer.
You can argue, graft, improve and college. All that but most on the breadline never can.
This.You can argue, graft, improve and college. All that but most on the breadline never can.
People don't want to work for s
t pay.If you pay enough you will find people to work. The problem is bosses don't want to pay enough so they create the myth that (_)Britons/(_)Men/(_)people with ginger hair just don't want to work... Forgetting to finish the sentence with "for the awful money we're offering".
There isn't a worker shortage... There's a serf shortage because people aren't being forced to take a less than livable wage to eat.
Unemployment is low at the moment... That means employers need to compete for workers... But some just want serfs.and will complain that they can't get them.
I resent the 'British people just don't want to work/ all the jobs that we can't fill' mantra in the news.
It's usually peddled out by a politician on 80k+, travel expenses etc etc.
When they travel by train it's not usually I'm the general carriage either. Heaven forbid that they had to stand for their entire journey.
It's usually peddled out by a politician on 80k+, travel expenses etc etc.
When they travel by train it's not usually I'm the general carriage either. Heaven forbid that they had to stand for their entire journey.
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