Project Managers - is it always awful?
Discussion
Hi all,
I've been involved in engineering (on the commercial side - unfortunately my CAD skills aren't up to snuff) for 15+ years. I've been trying to get into project management and now I'm here I'm not sure I like it. The whole company is constantly late on delivering to clients (not just me), we have no resource and it's seems like processes change every 5 minutes.
I seem to spend most of my time apologising to customers and promising to "chase" the various departments because I'm in their hands, and they're also resource-poor and overworked.
Is that just the nature of the job, or have I landed in a particularly bad position? Is it actually possible to deliver a project without running yourself ragged?
I have a feeling I may just not be suited to it mentally.
I've been involved in engineering (on the commercial side - unfortunately my CAD skills aren't up to snuff) for 15+ years. I've been trying to get into project management and now I'm here I'm not sure I like it. The whole company is constantly late on delivering to clients (not just me), we have no resource and it's seems like processes change every 5 minutes.
I seem to spend most of my time apologising to customers and promising to "chase" the various departments because I'm in their hands, and they're also resource-poor and overworked.
Is that just the nature of the job, or have I landed in a particularly bad position? Is it actually possible to deliver a project without running yourself ragged?
I have a feeling I may just not be suited to it mentally.
It's standard.
What you need to do is build a relationship with the client where you both have a 'managed expectation'.
They are not treating you as a supplier, and you are not treating them as a client.
Instead, you are two people communicating to make your lives flow in the best possible way for your own benefit as a couple.
Then the relief flows out from there.
They can make their people happy, and you can be less stressed.
There are only Young Project Managers, and Old Project Managers.
What you need to do is build a relationship with the client where you both have a 'managed expectation'.
They are not treating you as a supplier, and you are not treating them as a client.
Instead, you are two people communicating to make your lives flow in the best possible way for your own benefit as a couple.
Then the relief flows out from there.
They can make their people happy, and you can be less stressed.
There are only Young Project Managers, and Old Project Managers.
I'd also say that you're in a learning phase where you're finding out where everyone lets you down, so you're going to struggle to manage clients expectations when you don't know the pitfalls yourself.
It'll get easier second time around, but it won't actually work properly and you're there to try and get it over the line.
Conversely, a project manager is someone who draws an unrealistic plan without buy-in from stakeholders, then shouts at them when it doesn't work
It'll get easier second time around, but it won't actually work properly and you're there to try and get it over the line.
Conversely, a project manager is someone who draws an unrealistic plan without buy-in from stakeholders, then shouts at them when it doesn't work
crofty1984 said:
Hi all,
I've been involved in engineering (on the commercial side - unfortunately my CAD skills aren't up to snuff) for 15+ years. I've been trying to get into project management and now I'm here I'm not sure I like it. The whole company is constantly late on delivering to clients (not just me), we have no resource and it's seems like processes change every 5 minutes.
I seem to spend most of my time apologising to customers and promising to "chase" the various departments because I'm in their hands, and they're also resource-poor and overworked.
Is that just the nature of the job, or have I landed in a particularly bad position? Is it actually possible to deliver a project without running yourself ragged?
I have a feeling I may just not be suited to it mentally.
It shouldn't be this way. You should be able to deliver within the resource constraints you have and that should be the delivery window the customer is expecting. You need to find the sales team and I've been involved in engineering (on the commercial side - unfortunately my CAD skills aren't up to snuff) for 15+ years. I've been trying to get into project management and now I'm here I'm not sure I like it. The whole company is constantly late on delivering to clients (not just me), we have no resource and it's seems like processes change every 5 minutes.
I seem to spend most of my time apologising to customers and promising to "chase" the various departments because I'm in their hands, and they're also resource-poor and overworked.
Is that just the nature of the job, or have I landed in a particularly bad position? Is it actually possible to deliver a project without running yourself ragged?
I have a feeling I may just not be suited to it mentally.
If the answer to these questions is systemic and you can both fix the issues and manage the customer expectations to accept the more certain dates, you are on the way to being worth your weight in gold. If the answer to these questions is "because that's what the owner told the customer we would do and you know what he's like" then you need a new job.
GreatGranny said:
I'm on the BIM/CAD Techy side and we see PMs as the ones who take the plaudits when a job makes money and the client is happy but blames us when it's late/loses money 
Never enough resource or time.
I'm so glad I'll be free of all the b
ks at the end of March 25 when I retire.
Very similar (apart from the imminent retiring!). Starting to feel like it's getting to me after 20 years in the game, on and off. It's just not me.Never enough resource or time.
I'm so glad I'll be free of all the b
ks at the end of March 25 when I retire.Gary29 said:
GreatGranny said:
I'm on the BIM/CAD Techy side and we see PMs as the ones who take the plaudits when a job makes money and the client is happy but blames us when it's late/loses money
Never enough resource or time.
I'm so glad I'll be free of all the bks at the end of March 25 when I retire.
Very similar (apart from the imminent retiring!). Starting to feel like it's getting to me after 20 years in the game, on and off. It's just not me.Never enough resource or time.
I'm so glad I'll be free of all the b
ks at the end of March 25 when I retire.Going to do some part time work unrelated to what I do now so I don't sit on my arse all day especially in winter.
Are you a people person? You're going to need to be.
If you are not a people person yet, then read everything you can about negotiating, dealing with difficult people and selling, You'll be selling your ideas to people and need them to buy into something that is less than ideal for them.
Can you externalise stress, i.e. the stress is the project's stress, not yours personally.
Be approachable. Make it very clear to everyone that the sooner they tell you about problems and delays, the sooner you can adjust the expectations of others. Also encourage them to think of a number of different work arounds for any problem that arises. A twenty minute face to face morning stand up meeting, in which team leaders and managers run through the status of each sub-project and any delays issues etc. is a good way of staying on the ball.
Don't crucify the messenger of bad news.
Listen to your suppliers and when something is going to be late or fails inspection or testing, talk to them and find out how it could have happened and what their suggestion is to stop it happening in future.
Always have a Plan B and make sure it is viable before you ever need to implement it. If there is only one company making a critical part, consider getting an alternative made by another company and getting it qualified to be ready to use, so you could switch straight to the alternative supplier if necessary. You can see this on cars which have multiple different OEM suppliers for most components.
If you are not a people person yet, then read everything you can about negotiating, dealing with difficult people and selling, You'll be selling your ideas to people and need them to buy into something that is less than ideal for them.
Can you externalise stress, i.e. the stress is the project's stress, not yours personally.
Be approachable. Make it very clear to everyone that the sooner they tell you about problems and delays, the sooner you can adjust the expectations of others. Also encourage them to think of a number of different work arounds for any problem that arises. A twenty minute face to face morning stand up meeting, in which team leaders and managers run through the status of each sub-project and any delays issues etc. is a good way of staying on the ball.
Don't crucify the messenger of bad news.
Listen to your suppliers and when something is going to be late or fails inspection or testing, talk to them and find out how it could have happened and what their suggestion is to stop it happening in future.
Always have a Plan B and make sure it is viable before you ever need to implement it. If there is only one company making a critical part, consider getting an alternative made by another company and getting it qualified to be ready to use, so you could switch straight to the alternative supplier if necessary. You can see this on cars which have multiple different OEM suppliers for most components.
Collectingbrass said:
It shouldn't be this way. You should be able to deliver within the resource constraints you have and that should be the delivery window the customer is expecting. You need to find the sales team and batter them into stopping over promising find out why they are setting expectations with the customer that you can't meet. You also need to find out when the supporting departments can provide their input and find out why they are over promising to you.
If the answer to these questions is systemic and you can both fix the issues and manage the customer expectations to accept the more certain dates, you are on the way to being worth your weight in gold. If the answer to these questions is "because that's what the owner told the customer we would do and you know what he's like" then you need a new job.
Thanks. It's been a pretty rough intro to the company. I'm being handed projects that are over a year late by the time they get to me (high turnover of Project Managers) so a lot of it is the feeling of hopelessness I think. If I had a chance of keeping the customer happy I'd be a lot more positive about it (and I am for some of them). If the answer to these questions is systemic and you can both fix the issues and manage the customer expectations to accept the more certain dates, you are on the way to being worth your weight in gold. If the answer to these questions is "because that's what the owner told the customer we would do and you know what he's like" then you need a new job.
Somebody else also mentioned the learning part which is also true. Training isn't great and I've just had my one win go away because of something I should have checked but didn't know I had to/trusted the departments responsible to do it without micromanaging. So I'm pretty bummed out about it.
The people are nice but I think the company has 3x more work than it can cope with. Even if we train up more PMs, we're still fighting for the resource of the half dozen engineers we have.
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