How have people moved into management?

[Networkgeek]

Hi all

I have been working in IT for a good while now, and my focus has always been around infrastructure. Currently I'm a senior network engineer, truth be told, it's on the limit of technical expertise / interest and a somewhat overwhelming at times.

I joined IT because of the salary and I had a passing interest in building gaming PCs, prior to this life I was in sales. I've always done very well when it comes to communication, dealing with tricky customers and extracting information from people who don't have a clue of what they're talking about etc. I would describe myself as a people person, then a techie.

I set a goal to move out of a techie role and into a management position by the end of this year. I've been pushing my manager to give me opportunities to run team meetings, to take ownership of people management tasks (onboarding new members of the team, being a POC etc), and basically anything to get me away being seen as just a techie

Truth be told, I'm struggling to break away from being a techie. I have little interest in following how I've seen others move into management, by being the best engineer in a team and then forced into people management.

Might anyone have any insight into how they moved into management? Are there any courses you would recommend? Or something I'm missing in my approach?

Thanks all
NG

[UnfortunateUserName]

It’s easy to get pigeon-holed within a company. Have you looked at other employment opportunities with eg. a competitor company? Often it’s the quickest, sometimes the only, path to promotion

[Hoofy]

Can you get more involved in managing a project or two? That would require more people skills than technical skills. If not, then apply for junior project management roles. Or see if your company will pay for Prince 2 training (or similar).

[Networkgeek]

UnfortunateUserName said:

It’s easy to get pigeon-holed within a company. Have you looked at other employment opportunities with eg. a competitor company? Often it’s the quickest, sometimes the only, path to promotion

I have been looking, the trouble is, I've job hopped a lot over the years and finally I work for a company I like. My preference would be to stay at my current employer and move into management.

I like the idea though

[Networkgeek]

Hoofy said:

Can you get more involved in managing a project or two? That would require more people skills than technical skills. If not, then apply for junior project management roles. Or see if your company will pay for Prince 2 training (or similar).

I haven't asked about doing this - at work we do have a team of dedicated PMs, but I do a lot of my own project management anyway. In terms of the people management side of being a PM, this isn't something I get involved in but it's a great shout, so I'll suggest this to my manager.

Thanks

[Mars]

Networkgeek said:

... I have little interest in following how I've seen others move into management, by being the best engineer in a team and then forced into people management

That's kind of how I did it. Sole engineer for a particular technology, too much work, added more people to my team, led the team, had less time to keep abreast of technical evolution while my team pushed ahead with the new technologies...

... I ended up as a Project Manager but my technical background has given me advantages over other PMs that has kept me employed so far. I am frequently asked to continue development into Programme Management and to take on another team, both of which I have resisted to date (I like the fact that I still have a tentative link to the technology) but I may have roll-over at some point and accept my fate in order to remain useful/relevant to the company's requirements.

[Networkgeek]

Mars said:

That's kind of how I did it. Sole engineer for a particular technology, too much work, added more people to my team, led the team, had less time to keep abreast of technical evolution while my team pushed ahead with the new technologies...

... I ended up as a Project Manager but my technical background has given me advantages over other PMs that has kept me employed so far. I am frequently asked to continue development into Programme Management and to take on another team, both of which I have resisted to date (I like the fact that I still have a tentative link to the technology) but I may have roll-over at some point and accept my fate in order to remain useful/relevant to the company's requirements.

Fair play to you, it's good to still do what you're good at and to keep the skills fresh.

Personally, I want to leave being a techie behind. I will be more than happy to do people management, forecasting and organising a team. I would say delegating, but currently I'm horrendous at this, so this is a skill I need to work on.

You have given me food for thought though, with my over a decade of experience in infrastructure, this would help with being a PM and I could translate PM skills into being a team manager.

Thanks for your comment

[Slowboathome]

Does your organisation have a training and development dept? If they offer any kind of management training, contact the person in the department who seems to be leading on that and tell them what you're trying to do. They may have helpful suggestions about career paths, finding a mentor etc.

[Countdown]

Networkgeek said:

I have little interest in following how I've seen others move into management, by being the best engineer in a team and then forced into people management.

NG

Not sure if it helps but that's basically how I moved into Finance management.

As part of my formal accountancy training I had to do stints in various different specialities (Management accounting, Audit, financial accounting). It mean that, when vacancies came up, i ticked most of the "skills needed" boxes. As you move upwards you need to be a generalist rather than a specialist, you need to know how the whole thing meshes together rather than individual components and your direct reports need to feel assured that you understand what they're talking about.

[carlo996]

Networkgeek said:

Hi all

I have been working in IT for a good while now, and my focus has always been around infrastructure. Currently I'm a senior network engineer, truth be told, it's on the limit of technical expertise / interest and a somewhat overwhelming at times.

I joined IT because of the salary and I had a passing interest in building gaming PCs, prior to this life I was in sales. I've always done very well when it comes to communication, dealing with tricky customers and extracting information from people who don't have a clue of what they're talking about etc. I would describe myself as a people person, then a techie.

I set a goal to move out of a techie role and into a management position by the end of this year. I've been pushing my manager to give me opportunities to run team meetings, to take ownership of people management tasks (onboarding new members of the team, being a POC etc), and basically anything to get me away being seen as just a techie

Truth be told, I'm struggling to break away from being a techie. I have little interest in following how I've seen others move into management, by being the best engineer in a team and then forced into people management.

Might anyone have any insight into how they moved into management? Are there any courses you would recommend? Or something I'm missing in my approach?

Thanks all
NG

In my experience if you work your way up as a Tech you’ll never be taken seriously. So. Make a strong effort to find a new role where you enter the business with the expectation of being a leader. Unless you can turn your current employer?

[miniman]

Do you want to get into management, or leadership?

In either case, you need to demonstrate the characteristics that are important for the role.

If you want to be a delivery / project manager, you need to demonstrate strong organisation, planning, costing, measuring, risk identification and mitigation, tracking decisions and so forth.

If you want to be a leader you need to demonstrate empathy, empowerment, asking great questions, active listening and so on.

In either case, you need to look for the opportunities to show those around you what you are capable of. Be the one in the meeting that asks the questions in person rather than submitting anonymously. When everyone is backing away into the hedge, put your hand up and volunteer for something.

I can track the real pivot of my career to when the whole room of more experienced people didn’t want to do something difficult, so I said I’d do it. I didn’t know how to do it, but I figured it out. You need to look for your similar opportunity. IMHO.

[StevieBee]

Some really good points here - particularly the difference between Management and Leadership.

I'll add something else to be aware of.

Moving up the rungs within the team or division you've been part of is not without challenge. You go from one of 'us' to one of 'them'. In management, it is necessary and wise to be friendly with your team but advisable to not be friends. This can be awkward and difficult when you're now managing your mates, some of whom may resent your promotion and pay rise, some may not be able to take your new role seriously. And you may find it difficult to impart your managerial duties on them. Managing a different team or swapping employers removes this risk.

For context, I once worked in a printing company where one of the print minders was promoted to production manager. A few weeks in and he was required to sack one of the other minders who it was established had a small printing business on the side and was using overtime to print out the odd flyer for his few clients using the company's equipment, ink, etc. As minders, they were best mates, families knew each other and went on holiday together, kids friends with each other's kids. He knew what the guy was doing but couldn't reveal this to the board as he'd have been probably sacked as well. It caused a very unpleasant rift not just with the two families but in factory as well.

[Mabozza]

OP - is there an option to move into a Pre Sales or Consulting role where technical knowledge valued, but you get to utilise your previous sales and people skills?

FYI, I've been a manager at various levels, much happier now as an individual contributer in a PS sales / slightly technical role.

[Cwomble]

Mabozza said:

OP - is there an option to move into a Pre Sales or Consulting role where technical knowledge valued, but you get to utilise your previous sales and people skills?

FYI, I've been a manager at various levels, much happier now as an individual contributer in a PS sales / slightly technical role.

^^^^
This.

Why do people tend to assume going into management is a step up?
Doing and managing are also completely different skill
sets.

[Countdown]

Cwomble said:

Why do people tend to assume going into management is a step up?

Because it usually is

Cwomble said:

Doing and managing are also completely different skillsets.

They ARE but it's easier to "manage" people when you can demonstrate that you have the "doing" experience. If you don't have the "doing" experience you are basically relying on what your direct reports tell you and you have to be able to place a lot of trust in them.

[ruggedscotty]

StevieBee said:

Some really good points here - particularly the difference between Management and Leadership.

I'll add something else to be aware of.

Moving up the rungs within the team or division you've been part of is not without challenge. You go from one of 'us' to one of 'them'. In management, it is necessary and wise to be friendly with your team but advisable to not be friends. This can be awkward and difficult when you're now managing your mates, some of whom may resent your promotion and pay rise, some may not be able to take your new role seriously. And you may find it difficult to impart your managerial duties on them. Managing a different team or swapping employers removes this risk.

For context, I once worked in a printing company where one of the print minders was promoted to production manager. A few weeks in and he was required to sack one of the other minders who it was established had a small printing business on the side and was using overtime to print out the odd flyer for his few clients using the company's equipment, ink, etc. As minders, they were best mates, families knew each other and went on holiday together, kids friends with each other's kids. He knew what the guy was doing but couldn't reveal this to the board as he'd have been probably sacked as well. It caused a very unpleasant rift not just with the two families but in factory as well.

Your idea of being a manager often differs from the reality of being a manager in the eyes of the employer - and middle management.... thats a different kettle of fish - you become johnny no mates....

And if you were one of the guys and then become a manager, then you are going to need to develop a thick skin, as its far from easy.

Reviews

Holidays

Disciplinaries

all bones of contention. and well able to start the path to tension.

Looking after your own team and then dealing with the job tasks as can happen if you become a working supervisor.... all things to consider.

if you have the right mindset its possible and can be rewarding. but it has its own set of issues that you should be aware of

[essayer]

I think management is an overloaded word

do you want to be a line manager - responsible for people, their career, their day-to-day work; dealing with their problems and conflicts, being fully committed to their growth? For me taking on this responsibility was the biggest change I've ever made in my working life - you can't half-arse it - people need a lot of care and attention and you have to be aware of everything they're involved in - if you look after a few direct reports properly, you are left with very little time for individual development work each week

Also, it's absolutely not for everyone. If you love the hands-on part of being a coder/techie do not feel like people management is mandatory. Top tech companies have separate tracks for "individual contributors" and "managers" for a very good reason.

or do you want leadership responsibilities - leading a development team, reviewing code, setting out the technical direction for a project, remaining hands-on but reporting up the chain as well ? That can be more satisfying for a techie person but still progressing your career

[Countdown]

essayer said:

or do you want leadership responsibilities - leading a development team, reviewing code, setting out the technical direction for a project, remaining hands-on but reporting up the chain as well ? That can be more satisfying for a techie person but still progressing your career

All of those are just another type of "management". Everything, from Line Manager to Group CEO is "management" - i.e. making sure the people who report to you deliver the outputs that you're responsible for (regardless of whether it's making sure the toilets are clean or whether it's ensuring that EMEA turnover increases 15% YoY

IMHO "Leadership" is the type of personal style you use to manage people, it's not a role in itself. You could have two completely different types of "leaders" managing the same group of people in order to deliver the same outputs. One type of Leader could be completely hands-off and delegate everything the other one could be the Micro-manager from hell. Some styles are better than others, some work better in certain environments rather than others. In my current role I've had 3 different CEOs, each with their own "Leadership" style. However their "management" responsibilities have always been roughly the same,

In relation to the OP i think discussing "management" and " leadership" is just unnecessarily complicating things. They want to move upwards to a role where they are managing other people.

[Cwomble]

Countdown said:

Cwomble said:

Why do people tend to assume going into management is a step up?

Because it usually is

Cwomble said:

Doing and managing are also completely different skillsets.

They ARE but it's easier to "manage" people when you can demonstrate that you have the "doing" experience. If you don't have the "doing" experience you are basically relying on what your direct reports tell you and you have to be able to place a lot of trust in them.

That’s only true if you have the skills also to be a manager,
If you do it’s really and obvious.
Some the best managers I know have never performed the function of the people they manage.

Being very good at your job doesn’t equip you for the empathy, patience and the ability to let go.
You may well have those skills by the bucket load, but…

Also most are thrown into management with little to no training “ you’ve done the job, now go mange people who are doing it”.

I say all this as a very successful IC in the IT industry but forced into management three times over the decades.
I was awful, earned far less and hated wiping buns and noses.

[InformationSuperHighway]

Some quick ideas that worked for me:

- Separate yourself culturally from your peers. As mentioned above you need to be perceived as one of 'them' than one of 'us' by the people at your level. This can be hard.. most folks won't like you for it. Ignore them.

- Solve problems for your manager. You manager will have more problems on their plate they they can deal with. WIthout asking solve them. Seek forgiveness not permission to jump into problem solving. This includes things like running team meetings.. don't ask.. just do it in the moment.

- Act, speak, dress and create the persona of your own leadership personality. Mirror those you admire. Find the things that inspire you about someone else's leadership and emulate it.

- Learn to speak up and have an opinion, especially cross functionally. You need visibility across other teams so when it comes to promotion time, everyone in the decision room agrees you're ready. You need cross functional allies that vouch for you to your manager and higher leadership.

- Don't aim to be the best engineer. This is a career cul-de-sac. If you're the best they have, you'll NEVER get promoted. You need to show you have the leadership abilities, not the engineering abilities.

- Learn, read and be a student of leadership. Books, podcasts even formal training will all help. Put things into practice and learn your leadership style by implementing what you learn in the books.

- Assume the role, don't ask for the role. The more you ask, the more you are demanding. You need to make the role come to you, rather than chase it. It won't happen without business need, they aren't going to promote you to run a team unless there is a vacancy or growth opportunity. You need to be ready when the time is right and make it impossible for them to think of anyone else for the role. You do this by implementing all of the above. Make yourself a leader in waiting and the default.

- Finally, don't demand it based on time during the next career growth cycle. Just because you've been there for a period of time doesn't mean you deserve anything. Show proof of performance in leadership and then you HAVE to wait for the business to be ready. On rare occasions you could create the role by pitching a game changing idea (New business unit, new offering, new.. something) but you'll need a lot of business stars to align for that.