Can I be forced to TUPE to another company?

Can I be forced to TUPE to another company?

Author
Discussion

CloudyNight

Original Poster:

328 posts

163 months

Tuesday 30th July
quotequote all
I worked at a large site (~500 people + contractors) that's owned by a company that was created as a partnership between two global companies, lets call the UK one Bob and Chinese one Zhang. The company created to own and operate the site is an amalgamation of the two names BobZhang. Everything we have related to our employer is marked 'BobZhang', e.g. payslips, emails addresses, contracts.

When we were told the site would be closing we were all promised a very generous redundancy package to keep us all from leaving. However Bob operates another site nearby and there's a rumour that instead of receiving our redundancy payment some of us will be TUPE transferred to the this other site. Is this possible? I thought it wouldn't be as Bob and BobZhang are different companies.

Ussrcossack

662 posts

49 months

Tuesday 30th July
quotequote all
No you cant be forced.

You just quit
Which is what I think they want you to do

CloudyNight

Original Poster:

328 posts

163 months

Tuesday 30th July
quotequote all
Ussrcossack said:
No you cant be forced.

You just quit
Which is what I think they want you to do
Sorry what I mean is can I be forced to be TUPE'd to the other company rather than receiving my redundancy when my site closes?

Sy1441

1,189 posts

167 months

Tuesday 30th July
quotequote all
CloudyNight said:
Sorry what I mean is can I be forced to be TUPE'd to the other company rather than receiving my redundancy when my site closes?
Yes, as long as it's reasonable. For instance asking you to do a similar role on similar hours in a location that's within a reasonable travel distance would be suitable alternative role.

Jasandjules

70,499 posts

236 months

Wednesday 31st July
quotequote all
CloudyNight said:
Sorry what I mean is can I be forced to be TUPE'd to the other company rather than receiving my redundancy when my site closes?
You can object by providing an objection to your employer (Regulation 4(1)) however that will result in your forfeiting redundancy etc.

So in essence, yes........

CloudyNight

Original Poster:

328 posts

163 months

Wednesday 31st July
quotequote all
Sy1441 said:
Yes, as long as it's reasonable. For instance asking you to do a similar role on similar hours in a location that's within a reasonable travel distance would be suitable alternative role.
The thing I am confused about is that fact it's a different company, if I was working at ASDA and they closed the store I was working at I wouldn't expect them to TUPE me to the Tesco's store next door.

Mandat

4,002 posts

245 months

Wednesday 31st July
quotequote all
CloudyNight said:
The thing I am confused about is that fact it's a different company, if I was working at ASDA and they closed the store I was working at I wouldn't expect them to TUPE me to the Tesco's store next door.
I thought that the TUPE regulations were designed for just such a scenario.

geeks

9,733 posts

146 months

Wednesday 31st July
quotequote all
CloudyNight said:
Sy1441 said:
Yes, as long as it's reasonable. For instance asking you to do a similar role on similar hours in a location that's within a reasonable travel distance would be suitable alternative role.
The thing I am confused about is that fact it's a different company, if I was working at ASDA and they closed the store I was working at I wouldn't expect them to TUPE me to the Tesco's store next door.
But is BobZhang owned both the ASDA and the Tesco next door, they might.

CloudyNight

Original Poster:

328 posts

163 months

Wednesday 31st July
quotequote all
geeks said:
But is BobZhang owned both the ASDA and the Tesco next door, they might.
On the BobZhang about us webpage it says:

Are Bob and BobZhang the same company?
BobZhang is a joint venture between Zhang International and Bob Group

Does that mean either or none of the founder companies actually own it? I checked and BobZhang is a limited company registered at companies house.

Dan_1981

17,544 posts

206 months

Wednesday 31st July
quotequote all
TUPE covers a role not a person.

Is the work content / role moving to the other site?


silentbrown

9,352 posts

123 months

Wednesday 31st July
quotequote all
Mandat said:
CloudyNight said:
The thing I am confused about is that fact it's a different company, if I was working at ASDA and they closed the store I was working at I wouldn't expect them to TUPE me to the Tesco's store next door.
I thought that the TUPE regulations were designed for just such a scenario.
This. If there isn't a change of employer, TUPE isn't relevant. If you were employed by ASDA and they asked you to move from one ASDA store to another, that's nothing to do with TUPE.

Panamax

5,073 posts

41 months

Wednesday 31st July
quotequote all
silentbrown said:
This. If there isn't a change of employer, TUPE isn't relevant. If you were employed by ASDA and they asked you to move from one ASDA store to another, that's nothing to do with TUPE.
And similarly, if your work for a subsidiary company (i.e. the company where you work is owned by a larger company) then sale of that subsidiary company to a new owner is nothing to do with TUPE. Your employment continues seamlessly.

Jasandjules

70,499 posts

236 months

Wednesday 31st July
quotequote all
CloudyNight said:
The thing I am confused about is that fact it's a different company, if I was working at ASDA and they closed the store I was working at I wouldn't expect them to TUPE me to the Tesco's store next door.
If Tesco were buying out ASDA then your role would continue in ASDA and you would be TUPE'd across.

If you were working at Pizza Hut and Dominos bought the store, you would TUPE to Dominos and continue to work in the same role but your employer would now be Dominos and your work and contract could not be on worse terms than they were at Pizza Hut.

Panamax

5,073 posts

41 months

Wednesday 31st July
quotequote all
Jasandjules said:
If Tesco were buying out ASDA then your role would continue in ASDA and you would be TUPE'd across.
If Tesco buy the Asda store - yes, employees TUPE'd across
If Tesco buy the Asda company - no TUPE, but employees still find themselves under new ownership

Essentially the immediate result is the same either way. No disruption of the existing contract of employment.

(Can Tesco buy the shop premises and leave the employees with Asda to fire/reallocate? That's where it all gets a bit technical and is far beyond the scope of a car forum.)

WayOutWest

831 posts

65 months

Saturday 10th August
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From personal experience TUPE should protect people from transferring over. And this doesn't have to be a company buy out, it can be one company winning a contract from another and wanting to keep the same experienced staff in place. It means you should keep at least the same pay and contract conditions. In fact when I TUPEd I got a pay rise.
You should also keep all your continuous service accrued, which could come in handy if ever made redundant in the future (e.g. if you had 20 yrs service at the old company).

I've even seen companies use TUPE to dump useless dead wood employees (long term sick, generally useless people, older people with obsolete skillsets) onto the new company to avoid having to manage them out or make them redundant.
Which I thought was almost fraudulant as the staff in question were not even put onto the client contract/on site until the last few weeks prior to transition, but it does happen.