Sickness in the NHS

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surveyor

Original Poster:

18,139 posts

191 months

Friday 14th June
quotequote all
My wife is an admin assistant within an NHS trust and unfortunately has been diagnosed with Cancer. Fortunately, it's very early days and the prognosis is good, albeit we are in for a rough year.

She is in her 2nd year of employment and has had 3 weeks off with stress/high blood pressure after a particularly nasty run-in with a colleague who has now been moved on.

The policy says 2 months pay and 2 months half pay, then you are on your own. Not the generous NHS we all expect.

She had hoped to continue working through treatment, albeit mainly from home which is something the team could have worked with, however, her senior manager has said she does not want her working through chemo. This is great, but financially a bit concerning.

I am encouraging my wife to ask explicitly what will happen so that we can prepare, but I also wondered whether anyone has any experience of this in the NHS and knows whether the policy is always rigidly applied, or as in my world, it depends if you genuinely ill, or taking the mick.

aproctor1

106 posts

175 months

Sunday 16th June
quotequote all
Firstly, I hope you and your wife are ok and she gets the all clear in due course.

Re: your question, I wouldn't say your taking the proverbial asking, but in reality, she hasn't been employed long and isn't in a critical role.

If you had been employed by the NHS or any other, for 20 years, I would expect more compassion, but what's on offer is already very fair.

I have contemplated income protection insurance for this eventuality, but the premiums put me off, famous last words no doubt.

Edited by aproctor1 on Monday 17th June 08:11

paulmakin

688 posts

148 months

Sunday 16th June
quotequote all
Individual trusts will have their own arrangements for this type of situation.

it may be that her treatment cycles would not allow working, even from home - eg not uncommon to have several days treatment then a number of days rest, then more treatments, then rest etc etc over a number of weeks

by virtue of diagnosis, disability/equaity laws apply so another angle to look at. She cant be treated unfavourably simply becaise of her condition or because of matters connected to it. "reasonable adjustments" is the area for discussion with HR, OccHealth, line management etc

the 2/2 will be applied. NHS T&Cs are nowhere near as generous as they once were, havent been for years and every trust is free to set it's own within broad parameters. expect a phased return but that will be at full pay (unless the trust she works at have negotiated that away)

very best wishes to you both, however it plays out

shtu

3,709 posts

153 months

Monday 17th June
quotequote all
surveyor said:
her senior manager has said she does not want her working through chemo.
It may well be that was meant out of genuine concern, but unless they are willing to cover her salary she shouldn't be forced to take sick leave with low\no pay if she is actually fit to work. There's also the wellbeing side of things - carrying on as normal (as far a possible) may well be what your partner wants.

I'm no expert here, I'd give Macmillan a call for advice, but it doesn't sound right at all.

surveyor

Original Poster:

18,139 posts

191 months

Sunday 14th July
quotequote all
Still have no real idea what is happening, but it's weird.

Wife has had 2 weeks off after an operation, The timescale for recovery was 2-4 weeks. She is climbing the wall and heading back to work tomorrow.

Meanwhile, her manager (who has had no contact with her, not even asking her plans before the operation) has replaced her with a temp as he has decided she is not returning to work for the duration from now to the end of chemo - so around 6 months.

I'm rather pissed off. There is a lot of stuff happening that my wife has no control over. This is something she should be involved with and people should be asking her what she wants to do and discussing options with her.




hidetheelephants

27,820 posts

200 months

Sunday 14th July
quotequote all
If she's not in a union it's time to join one and ask for advice.

FazerBoy

974 posts

157 months

Monday 15th July
quotequote all
surveyor said:
Still have no real idea what is happening, but it's weird.

Wife has had 2 weeks off after an operation, The timescale for recovery was 2-4 weeks. She is climbing the wall and heading back to work tomorrow.

Meanwhile, her manager (who has had no contact with her, not even asking her plans before the operation) has replaced her with a temp as he has decided she is not returning to work for the duration from now to the end of chemo - so around 6 months.
That doesn’t sound right. What has the manager told her about what level of salary she will be paid during this period?

spaximus

4,289 posts

260 months

Monday 15th July
quotequote all
She needs to have a formal meeting with the HR department because none of this sounds right. The length of sick pay is one thing but replacing her without having a medical opinion is just wrong.
Especially after you mentioned she had been off with stress due to a staff member who has now been moved.
Main thing is her health

loskie

5,665 posts

127 months

Monday 15th July
quotequote all
As someone said above get MacMillan to support her too.

I'm amazed at how bad the sickness policy is are you sure you are right on that?

Here it's 6m full pay then onto 6m half pay.


Get all the support you can, don't be afraid to ask. You are both going through a lot.


Best wishes to you both.

SpidersWeb

4,065 posts

180 months

Monday 15th July
quotequote all
surveyor said:
She had hoped to continue working through treatment, albeit mainly from home which is something the team could have worked with, however, her senior manager has said she does not want her working through chemo. This is great, but financially a bit concerning.
Firstly I hope your wife makes a good and swift recovery.

If your wife is a member of a union, then she should speak to them, and if not, then she should join one.

Managers are frequently not trained to deal with situations like this and have an unfortunate tendency to guess what to do, and as for HR, well they are not there to protect the employees.

www.macmillan.org.uk/cancer-information-and-suppor...

The law considers cancer to be a disability and thus is protected under disability discrimination.

Being paid for time taken for medical appointments is a grey area and your wife should check her employment contract - a medical appointment isn't the same as being on sick leave - www.acas.org.uk/time-off-for-medical-appointments

If your wife's manager is telling them not to work when she is able to work and wants to work, then that is fine if they are agreeing that time *they* are telling her not to work will not come out of sick leave and she will be paid.

However... if they are telling your wife that time when she is able to work and wants to work will eat into her sick leave (or she won't be paid)... I suggest your wife's manager needs a bit of a wake up call.

And if your wife's manager is suggesting that because they fear that despite your wife being able to work and wanting to work, that your wife will not be able to deliver the same level of work, then the manager needs to look at the law surrounding disability discrimination and reasonable adjustments - reasonable adjustments such as working from home if the job is capable of being done that way.

As before, union, union, union, and making sure everything is in writing and she has someone supporting her in any meetings with her manager about this or (god forbid) HR if they get involved.

Countdown

42,025 posts

203 months

Monday 15th July
quotequote all
surveyor said:
The policy says 2 months pay and 2 months half pay, then you are on your own. Not the generous NHS we all expect.
From memory it increases with service (1st year of employment = 1 month full pay / 1 month half pay, 5th year of employment = 6 months full pay, 6 months half pay)

ucb

1,040 posts

219 months

Friday 19th July
quotequote all
Countdown said:
From memory it increases with service (1st year of employment = 1 month full pay / 1 month half pay, 5th year of employment = 6 months full pay, 6 months half pay)
Exactly this.
Sick pay benefit increases with duration of employment as described
Watch out for your wife's return to work as the duration of sick pay only reaccumulates once you have been working ie you can't return for a day and then go back on your accrued sick leave at full pay.
I had 4 months off with an injury and I only retuerned to my full compliment of sick leave benefits 4 months after return to work

surveyor

Original Poster:

18,139 posts

191 months

Friday 19th July
quotequote all
Thanks all.

She's met HR and It's been confirmed as 2 months full pay, 2 months half pay then SSP. It is what it is.

My wife has had trouble deciding what she want, understandably. She had two weeks off after the initial operation and was climbing the wall be the end of week two.. She thinks she wants to try and work through it as best she can, but accepts she will have good days and bad days and perhaps will change her mind. It all depends on how she copes with chemo, and no-one knows the answer.

Her employer has said they fully support her, and are quite happy to see how it goes and if days off are required so be it. Also happy for her to be a home worker which would be essential as a hospital environment would not be a good idea for the duration.

It's one issue boxed off. Sadly the bigger issues of whether it has spread is out of out control and we just have to wait and see.


Gas1883

566 posts

55 months

Sunday 21st July
quotequote all
My wife has worked in the nhs for 30 + years , she’s in union & because she had a few years ago, 2xcovid absences ( they said she couldn’t work ) & shingles she had to go to a meeting over these absences ,.
The Union couldn’t attend as one rep was off with stress , one was too busy with other cases .
Wife has covid now & they can’t make up there mind whether she can work / can’t.
She’s on a old nhs contract so is just going to take early retirement , had enough

Franco5

344 posts

66 months

Monday 5th August
quotequote all
Two physios in a team of three off long term due to stress so now they’re paying them to sit at home and do nothing while overpaying for two bank staff to replace them. One of the sick notes is from the Philippines. Genius move bringing someone into the country from abroad and paying them £30-£40K a year to sit at home contributing zero while they consume public services with their kids at school etc. One of the reasons your taxes are about to rise. To think that physiotherapy in the NHS is stressful is beyond comical.

surveyor

Original Poster:

18,139 posts

191 months

Tuesday 6th August
quotequote all
Franco5 said:
Two physios in a team of three off long term due to stress so now they’re paying them to sit at home and do nothing while overpaying for two bank staff to replace them. One of the sick notes is from the Philippines. Genius move bringing someone into the country from abroad and paying them £30-£40K a year to sit at home contributing zero while they consume public services with their kids at school etc. One of the reasons your taxes are about to rise. To think that physiotherapy in the NHS is stressful is beyond comical.
So if you are recruited from abroad and work in the NHS you are not allowed to be affected by the same illness as someone who is a UK national?


Brainpox

4,136 posts

158 months

Tuesday 6th August
quotequote all
surveyor said:
So if you are recruited from abroad and work in the NHS you are not allowed to be affected by the same illness as someone who is a UK national?
There’s no point rising to it. He thinks all physio jobs are stress free and bank shifts are overpaid I.e. just a troll.

Countdown

42,025 posts

203 months

Tuesday 6th August
quotequote all
Franco5 said:
Two physios in a team of three off long term due to stress so now they’re paying them to sit at home and do nothing while overpaying for two bank staff to replace them. One of the sick notes is from the Philippines. Genius move bringing someone into the country from abroad and paying them £30-£40K a year to sit at home contributing zero while they consume public services with their kids at school etc. One of the reasons your taxes are about to rise. To think that physiotherapy in the NHS is stressful is beyond comical.
Just curious - how do YOU know that the sickness certificate is from the Phillipines?

IME it wouldn't be accepted. The person would need a GP to sign them off and for something like stress there would be an OH referral pretty quick.

MrJuice

3,669 posts

163 months

Tuesday 6th August
quotequote all
Countdown said:
Just curious - how do YOU know that the sickness certificate is from the Phillipines?

IME it wouldn't be accepted. The person would need a GP to sign them off and for something like stress there would be an OH referral pretty quick.
I had a ward patient once who at the end of seeing him with my consultant pulls me aside and asks me "what's to stop a nurse clocking in in the morning and then going off for the day and then coming back to sign out at the end of the day".

He did not have any learning disabilities. He really thought he was on to something.

moorx

3,930 posts

121 months

Tuesday 6th August
quotequote all
I took it to mean a derogatory term for one of the people on sick leave.

Here's his thread:

https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...