Job offer, sounding board request
Discussion
This is not for me, but asking on behalf of another. Genuinely. Asking for views.
Person mid 30s, good degree, has been offered a new job which involves a move from public sector adjacent to private sector. Currently been with them 8 years, likes job, likes people, but looking for progression which may be a possibility in existing place, no guarantees, but well thought of in organisation and definitely operates at a level above the pay grade, but, you know, most do these days. Not yet formally handed notice in.
New job is a decent % increase in pay, definitely underpaid in current post to my eyes, but new total is in my opinion nothing especially earth shattering, and some conditions are a reduction, eg holidays, pension but swings roundabouts etc.
Two issues crop up once background checks satisfactory and detailed contract offered. Would like comments on these issues as new ones on me. Some years since I packed in, and not seen previously.
Sick pay. Currently has 6 months full pay, 6 months 50% pay, but the organisation has a known history of looking after people on long term sick.
New place, only SSP after first 3 days. Nothing else.
Clause which categorically states that if they are sick or absent due to the actions or deficiencies of a 3rd party that any SSP paid by the company then becomes a loan and is expected to be repayable and employee expected to recover this by suing the 3rd party for loss of earnings.
Wait, what now? Is this normal these days? Never encountered this but then old school.
Pension. Currently on a Local Govt Pension Scheme. Not final salary but career average, accrual 1/49ths, accrued years are also increased by some formula.
New place, has a pension, DC, 5% and matched employer contribution but firm will not give any other details until the start of the employee induction.
No information or answers forthcoming on what seem to be reasonable questions on relatively minor clarifications needed around the contract, again official response is will tell you when you start.
Again, thoughts please.
Red flags or not? I know my opinion but will not influence feedback on that.
A personal observation, whoever drafted this contract is a semi literate moron, not a comma in sight. PH punctuation and grammar police here would go into meltdown.
Person mid 30s, good degree, has been offered a new job which involves a move from public sector adjacent to private sector. Currently been with them 8 years, likes job, likes people, but looking for progression which may be a possibility in existing place, no guarantees, but well thought of in organisation and definitely operates at a level above the pay grade, but, you know, most do these days. Not yet formally handed notice in.
New job is a decent % increase in pay, definitely underpaid in current post to my eyes, but new total is in my opinion nothing especially earth shattering, and some conditions are a reduction, eg holidays, pension but swings roundabouts etc.
Two issues crop up once background checks satisfactory and detailed contract offered. Would like comments on these issues as new ones on me. Some years since I packed in, and not seen previously.
Sick pay. Currently has 6 months full pay, 6 months 50% pay, but the organisation has a known history of looking after people on long term sick.
New place, only SSP after first 3 days. Nothing else.
Clause which categorically states that if they are sick or absent due to the actions or deficiencies of a 3rd party that any SSP paid by the company then becomes a loan and is expected to be repayable and employee expected to recover this by suing the 3rd party for loss of earnings.
Wait, what now? Is this normal these days? Never encountered this but then old school.
Pension. Currently on a Local Govt Pension Scheme. Not final salary but career average, accrual 1/49ths, accrued years are also increased by some formula.
New place, has a pension, DC, 5% and matched employer contribution but firm will not give any other details until the start of the employee induction.
No information or answers forthcoming on what seem to be reasonable questions on relatively minor clarifications needed around the contract, again official response is will tell you when you start.
Again, thoughts please.
Red flags or not? I know my opinion but will not influence feedback on that.
A personal observation, whoever drafted this contract is a semi literate moron, not a comma in sight. PH punctuation and grammar police here would go into meltdown.
Not telling you about pension details before starting is a bit weird in my view.
Sick pay is also a bit tight but no idea if that's normal for private sector. How often is this friend sick? I know you never know if you're going to be ill but if someone has regular periods of sick that might be an issue.
All depends on how much they want the money uplift right now Vs better pension in 30 years time! Also Vs options for internal moves or moves to other public sector roles.
Sick pay is also a bit tight but no idea if that's normal for private sector. How often is this friend sick? I know you never know if you're going to be ill but if someone has regular periods of sick that might be an issue.
All depends on how much they want the money uplift right now Vs better pension in 30 years time! Also Vs options for internal moves or moves to other public sector roles.
Further thought, it would be a no from me.
The sick policy is very restrictive. Whilst I've had very few sick days (the most being a week off 15 years ago with a chest infection) I'd not want that stress hanging over me that I'd potentially have to sue someone to recover my losses.
The prospective employer will be paying significantly less towards pension. Less A/L, probably less flexibility. Probably worse work life balance.
All down to the individual really on what they want....better work life balance and pension or more money now and potentially worse work life balance, more stress etc. which could only be temporary as a move back to public sector at a higher grade could be available in the future.
The sick policy is very restrictive. Whilst I've had very few sick days (the most being a week off 15 years ago with a chest infection) I'd not want that stress hanging over me that I'd potentially have to sue someone to recover my losses.
The prospective employer will be paying significantly less towards pension. Less A/L, probably less flexibility. Probably worse work life balance.
All down to the individual really on what they want....better work life balance and pension or more money now and potentially worse work life balance, more stress etc. which could only be temporary as a move back to public sector at a higher grade could be available in the future.
I accepted a job offer from a European firm and my contract stated as follows...
If you are absent from work due to incapacity we shall pay you Statutory Sick Pay (SSP) provided that you satisfy the relevant requirements. Your qualifying days for company sick pay and SSP purposes are Monday to Friday.
Any other payments during periods of absence for sickness will be entirely at the discretion of the Company.
I wasn't impressed but following some time out I was rejoining the world of work and so I wasn't disadvantaged.
The role was home based and I resolved to never call in sick.
After so many years of being employed and getting screwed over I had learnt to look after me from now on.
If you are absent from work due to incapacity we shall pay you Statutory Sick Pay (SSP) provided that you satisfy the relevant requirements. Your qualifying days for company sick pay and SSP purposes are Monday to Friday.
Any other payments during periods of absence for sickness will be entirely at the discretion of the Company.
I wasn't impressed but following some time out I was rejoining the world of work and so I wasn't disadvantaged.
The role was home based and I resolved to never call in sick.
After so many years of being employed and getting screwed over I had learnt to look after me from now on.
I've only worked for large companies so both of those are red flags to me. It depends what you're prepared to put up with. Is this a long term or a short term career move? If the latter, use it as a stepping stone, gain some experience and move on to better things. If the former, I would look into the company a bit more and find out the staff turnover rate.
Pension is perfectly normal in private sector, better than many, but you can get better. I get matched up to 5% plus 4%.
SSP only is not unusual in smaller / medium companies, but the bit about persuing 3rd parties is a bit odd. Though if I was only on SSP I would probably be pursuing 3rd parties for loss of earning if they had injured me.
SSP only is not unusual in smaller / medium companies, but the bit about persuing 3rd parties is a bit odd. Though if I was only on SSP I would probably be pursuing 3rd parties for loss of earning if they had injured me.
The sue if injured is a red flag for me. I'd expect that to come via a return to work converstion if I'd been injured by someone else, "Had you thought about..." etc type of thing. The fact it is written into a contract is worrying; just like there's a story behind every sign, there's a story behind every clause in an employment contract. Why do they need to write this in? I'd tell your friend to pass on this offer and find something else.
I've worked for 3 FTSE listed companies, an outsourcer (FTSE 250) and a Council.
The Council had the best T&C's, but for the most part, much lower pay, the others, while not quite as generous, have all been satisfactory, e.g. 3 months full sick pay, 7-12% pension contribution, 26 days annual leave etc etc.
As with all things, you need to take a view of whether the job and package are right for you, as well as what it could unlock in the future.
The Council had the best T&C's, but for the most part, much lower pay, the others, while not quite as generous, have all been satisfactory, e.g. 3 months full sick pay, 7-12% pension contribution, 26 days annual leave etc etc.
As with all things, you need to take a view of whether the job and package are right for you, as well as what it could unlock in the future.
Thank you to all who have replied with comments. Many of you have aired issues and advice that we have already discussed between ourselves and essentially very much in line with our feelings.
The reason for putting up the thread to act as a sounding board for opinion is because sometimes when there's a situation where one might think is there something that doesn't feel right, there's also an accompanying worry whether it's just that might be personally out of step. Experience in many areas has taught me that if something doesn't look or feel right, there's usually something that genuinely isn't right behind it, might not know exactly what 'that' is yet.
On balance you've really confirmed my original unstated opinion that this is a pass. Plenty more fish in the sea, especially as this would almost certainly not be a genuine stepping stone move. Clearly one can never predict what opportunities might arise hence has been considered carefully.
Once again, thank you.
The reason for putting up the thread to act as a sounding board for opinion is because sometimes when there's a situation where one might think is there something that doesn't feel right, there's also an accompanying worry whether it's just that might be personally out of step. Experience in many areas has taught me that if something doesn't look or feel right, there's usually something that genuinely isn't right behind it, might not know exactly what 'that' is yet.
On balance you've really confirmed my original unstated opinion that this is a pass. Plenty more fish in the sea, especially as this would almost certainly not be a genuine stepping stone move. Clearly one can never predict what opportunities might arise hence has been considered carefully.
Once again, thank you.
I would agree that I would be staying put.
I have been predicting a recession since covid. I am now retired, but remember 1988 and 2008. The same signs are there, but due to high immigration the economy has been artificially high.
I now think we are on the edge of the cliff and I don't think that Labour fully understand the dire state of the UK's finances. The reason the Conservatives haven't implemented the policies they are proposing is because the country cannot afford them.
Now is not the time to be leaving a hopefully secure public sector job for private.
I have been predicting a recession since covid. I am now retired, but remember 1988 and 2008. The same signs are there, but due to high immigration the economy has been artificially high.
I now think we are on the edge of the cliff and I don't think that Labour fully understand the dire state of the UK's finances. The reason the Conservatives haven't implemented the policies they are proposing is because the country cannot afford them.
Now is not the time to be leaving a hopefully secure public sector job for private.
t tbh.Slow.Patrol said:
I would agree that I would be staying put.
I have been predicting a recession since covid. I am now retired, but remember 1988 and 2008. The same signs are there, but due to high immigration the economy has been artificially high.
I now think we are on the edge of the cliff and I don't think that Labour fully understand the dire state of the UK's finances. The reason the Conservatives haven't implemented the policies they are proposing is because the country cannot afford them.
Now is not the time to be leaving a hopefully secure public sector job for private.
That would be my view too.I have been predicting a recession since covid. I am now retired, but remember 1988 and 2008. The same signs are there, but due to high immigration the economy has been artificially high.
I now think we are on the edge of the cliff and I don't think that Labour fully understand the dire state of the UK's finances. The reason the Conservatives haven't implemented the policies they are proposing is because the country cannot afford them.
Now is not the time to be leaving a hopefully secure public sector job for private.
Personally I would take better T&Cs and benefits over a higher salary figure.
But it is personal preference. I work to pay the bills, I don't care who for. I have a family to support and would like to work for a place where my employer looks after me if the chips were down (i.e. i got very sick for a while and couldn't work), looks after my future i.e decent pension on offer and gives me enough time off and flexibility as believe it or not if I didn't have to work, I would not. In return I am loyal and work to the best of my ability.
But it is personal preference. I work to pay the bills, I don't care who for. I have a family to support and would like to work for a place where my employer looks after me if the chips were down (i.e. i got very sick for a while and couldn't work), looks after my future i.e decent pension on offer and gives me enough time off and flexibility as believe it or not if I didn't have to work, I would not. In return I am loyal and work to the best of my ability.
Also bear in mind moving to a new employer resets the 2 years where you're no longer protected from unfair dismissal (save some specific discriminatory/whistleblowing circumstances).
The new job would have to offer a significant uplift in salary and career progression potential to offset the poorer protections and pension.
The new job would have to offer a significant uplift in salary and career progression potential to offset the poorer protections and pension.
To carry on thread title, without making a new one.
Ive been in my current role for 6 yrs, moved here from a company where i was in a similar job (technical sales) for 8 yrs. I am fortunate that i'm very understressed and well compensated in my role, which is quite flexible in that i can work from home on occasion and the bosses are mostly ok with me dropping things for emergencies with the kids etc. half day every fridau, no weekends...no real stress, busy enough, but can work at my own pace and get things done in working hours. When i started, company was an SME which felt very friendly and family run type of business, few years back was bought over by a large Group and now has a rather corporate aire about it, which i'm not really enjoying.
I wasnt looking for another job, but out of the blue, my old boss called me. We left on good terms and we have kept in touch over the years, sometimes bump into each other at business events...he told me my old company is doing really well and is very busy and asked me if i would consider coming back...ive taken a few days to think about and spoke to my current boss about the offer, which is about a 12% pay rise and flexitime/private medical etc.
Had a good few pay bumps over the years, but my current one was only 2% and when i asked could they match the offer from the old place , i was told there was a company wide pay freeze due to the financial situation we are in and there is no movement on it...
This rang alarm bells with me, as i had no idea we were in a financial situation!
This kind of forced my arm so i'm considering going back to the old job. Has anyone done this and did you find any issues/problems with going back to an old workplace? I didn't dislike the old job, just felt i had plateaued, both on pay and opportunities. This seems to have changed now as they can offer more than i currently make (and around double what i was on when i left), and besides, i dont feel like i really want to climb the corporate ladder anymore. Comfortable where i am and happy that i'm good at my job and know what i'm doing. Old job is a small family run firm, so no corporate BS to contend with, but equally, not as much scope for progression although the offered salary will do me so no need to push on for bigger and better.
Appreciate and welcome any advice, although i may have had my mind made up by the "financial situation" comment...
Ive been in my current role for 6 yrs, moved here from a company where i was in a similar job (technical sales) for 8 yrs. I am fortunate that i'm very understressed and well compensated in my role, which is quite flexible in that i can work from home on occasion and the bosses are mostly ok with me dropping things for emergencies with the kids etc. half day every fridau, no weekends...no real stress, busy enough, but can work at my own pace and get things done in working hours. When i started, company was an SME which felt very friendly and family run type of business, few years back was bought over by a large Group and now has a rather corporate aire about it, which i'm not really enjoying.
I wasnt looking for another job, but out of the blue, my old boss called me. We left on good terms and we have kept in touch over the years, sometimes bump into each other at business events...he told me my old company is doing really well and is very busy and asked me if i would consider coming back...ive taken a few days to think about and spoke to my current boss about the offer, which is about a 12% pay rise and flexitime/private medical etc.
Had a good few pay bumps over the years, but my current one was only 2% and when i asked could they match the offer from the old place , i was told there was a company wide pay freeze due to the financial situation we are in and there is no movement on it...
This rang alarm bells with me, as i had no idea we were in a financial situation!
This kind of forced my arm so i'm considering going back to the old job. Has anyone done this and did you find any issues/problems with going back to an old workplace? I didn't dislike the old job, just felt i had plateaued, both on pay and opportunities. This seems to have changed now as they can offer more than i currently make (and around double what i was on when i left), and besides, i dont feel like i really want to climb the corporate ladder anymore. Comfortable where i am and happy that i'm good at my job and know what i'm doing. Old job is a small family run firm, so no corporate BS to contend with, but equally, not as much scope for progression although the offered salary will do me so no need to push on for bigger and better.
Appreciate and welcome any advice, although i may have had my mind made up by the "financial situation" comment...
Just to update and close out the original question and secondly to provide a comment to question raised by latest poster on the subject of returning to an old employer.
The new job has been turned down, and in part as a result of improved salary offer from existing employer. Equally some of the questions were answered by the prospective employer but there was still a lot of what was not said rather than the actual words. Anyway decision made, move on.
Re: returning to an old employer. During the above process the usual type of pro - vs - con for each option was listed. One on the pro side for the old employer was there's a definite track record of colleagues leaving for pastures new, both into private and public sector, and returning sometimes with a pay cut with stories of "hated it" and worse, then settled back in really happily.
Hope that helps
The new job has been turned down, and in part as a result of improved salary offer from existing employer. Equally some of the questions were answered by the prospective employer but there was still a lot of what was not said rather than the actual words. Anyway decision made, move on.
Re: returning to an old employer. During the above process the usual type of pro - vs - con for each option was listed. One on the pro side for the old employer was there's a definite track record of colleagues leaving for pastures new, both into private and public sector, and returning sometimes with a pay cut with stories of "hated it" and worse, then settled back in really happily.
Hope that helps
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